Lightning Lane at Walt Disney World

nickys

nickys

Premium Member
SingleRider said:
On my last trip there was a group of about 15-20 people that came through the Frozen Ever After LL during early entry. I was near the front of the pack coming from the front so it was probably about 20 minutes before park open so no Genie+ would be eligible then. Unless a CM let them in early for G+ they were probably DAS.
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More likely a VIP tour, Club33 or Golden Oaks with that number of guests.
 
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DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
tanc said:
If DAS changes, it was only a matter of time. Reminds me of LL bean removing their legendary return policy because people began to abuse it. Same scenario, some people who actually need DAS now have to suffer because of others abusing it (assuming the change happens).
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Unfortunately I don’t know that going to a medical model would change much. People willing to lie or exaggerate to a CM would presumably be willing to lie or exaggerate to a doctor. The same social media groups will pop up with advice on what to say and what diagnoses are most subjective and easiest to claim. And those abusing the system may feel more emboldened, because they will have something official in hand, vs. the current system where it’s at the discretion of the CM. I think the key issue at the moment is that DAS overlaps so much with a paid product (Genie+). As long as that financial incentive is there, there will be a small but persistent group of people determined to cheat the system (I actually don’t think it’s a substantial number of people, though.)
 
Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
Unfortunately I don’t know that going to a medical model would change much. People willing to lie or exaggerate to a CM would presumably be willing to lie or exaggerate to a doctor. The same social media groups will pop up with advice on what to say and what diagnoses are most subjective and easiest to claim. And those abusing the system may feel more emboldened, because they will have something official in hand, vs. the current system where it’s at the discretion of the CM. I think the key issue at the moment is that DAS overlaps so much with a paid product (Genie+). As long as that financial incentive is there, there will be a small but persistent group of people determined to cheat the system (I actually don’t think it’s a substantial number of people, though.)
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That's the rub. It's quite easy to get a note from your doctor for any number of conditions, even if you don't have them or they aren't impactful enough to qualify for accommodations. If Disney were to implement a program identical to Universal's, it would create additional barriers to those with legitimate disabilities, while doing little to curb those without them from getting into the program. Some guests with legitimate disabilities would go on vacation without documentation and may potentially be denied the accommodation as a result, while guests who know how to game the system would have done the work in advance to procure a note.

Thankfully, from what I've heard, Disney's plans include contingencies for guests who do not have a formal supporting documentation with them, and should in theory be able to accommodate guests who apply in-person without any pre-preparation.

Abuse currently occurs in sufficient numbers that it creates barriers to selling more Genie+ and creates guest dissatisfaction amongst Genie+ purchasers due to increased LL wait times. Even though the LL wait times are not that much longer than when they were FP+, now that it is a paid program, guests expect very little to no wait. A 15 minute wait went from being acceptable when it was free, to unacceptable now that they're paying as high as nearly $40/person/day extra for the privilege.

The real problem, as you correctly point out, is that there is such overlap between the premium product and the accommodations available to guests with certain disabilities. So long as they are substantively the same, and one is free while the other is paid (there's no way they could make DAS paid), this will continue to be a problem, though I suspect that requiring evidence of disability will deter some of the more lazy abusers.
 
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MagicHappens1971

MagicHappens1971

Well-Known Member
SingleRider said:
Disney really needs to come up with a system to prevent anyone with a DAS return time from standing in line for any other attraction. This would be easy to accomplish by having CMs scan tickets at the standby entrances.
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This is insane. I have stated it several times. It’s extended waits that is a problem 9 times out of 10. Not a 15 minute wait for Little Mermaid
 
Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
SingleRider said:
This would be easy to accomplish by having CMs scan tickets at the standby entrances.
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It has been discussed several times already why that "solution" is wildly impractical.

Don't believe me? Look at the LL entrance of any relatively popular attraction and you'll see clumps of guests struggling to get in because of various issues like finding and presenting their admission media, entitlements not being linked, and more. Now imagine every single guest in the park being forced to do that for each attraction.
 
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SingleRider

Premium Member
Brian said:
It has been discussed several times already why that "solution" is wildly impractical.

Don't believe me? Look at the LL entrance of any relatively popular attraction and you'll see clumps of guests struggling to get in because of various issues like finding and presenting their admission media, entitlements not being linked, and more. Now imagine every single guest in the park being forced to do that for each attraction.
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It’s been reported on this site and others that the LL entrance at any popular attraction accounts for 75-80% of that ride’s capacity because the LL is heavily favored. Having the other 20-25 percent scan at a separate entrance shouldn’t be much of an issue.
 
DisneyDodo

DisneyDodo

Well-Known Member
SingleRider said:
On my last trip there was a group of about 15-20 people that came through the Frozen Ever After LL during early entry. I was near the front of the pack coming from the front so it was probably about 20 minutes before park open so no Genie+ would be eligible then. Unless a CM let them in early for G+ they were probably DAS.
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It took me a very long time to parse this post because my brain stubbornly insisted on reading “LL” as “Lightning Lane” every time, which made me assume “bean” was some sort of typo, and I could not for the life of me figure out what you were trying to say. Thankfully it eventually clicked.
 
Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
SingleRider said:
It’s been reported on this site and others that the LL entrance at any popular attraction accounts for 75-80% of that ride’s capacity because the LL is heavily favored. Having the other 20-25 percent scan at a separate entrance shouldn’t be much of an issue.
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I believe the figures you are referring to are the mix ratios of LL vs standby guests at the merge point, which can fluctuate throughout the day. These ratios do not themselves determine the types of guests (Genie+ vs Standby) who will ultimately choose to get in line and experience a specific attraction.
 
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Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Brian said:
I believe the figures you are referring to are the mix ratios of LL vs standby guests at the merge point, which can fluctuate throughout the day. These ratios do not themselves determine the types of guests (Genie+ vs Standby) who will ultimately choose to get in line and experience a specific attraction.
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But the ratio of people that get on the ride via Standby or LL throughout a day (on average) must be the same ratio of people that get in the line...
 
Brian

Brian

Well-Known Member
Purduevian said:
But the ratio of people that get on the ride via Standby or LL throughout a day (on average) must be the same ratio of people that get in the line...
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If OP was referring to the mix ratio with the 80% figure, that determines how many LL guests pass through the merge point at any given time versus standby. There will still be the same number of guests who ultimately choose to experience the attraction via either standby or LL whether they let 20 LL guests through the merge point for every one standby or 50.

If the suggestion is that 80% of a "popular" attraction's total guests throughout the day are LL guests, I don't know of any in which that is the case.
 
HauntedPirate

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
A

aaronml

Well-Known Member
tanc said:
If DAS changes, it was only a matter of time. Reminds me of LL bean removing their legendary return policy because people began to abuse it. Same scenario, some people who actually need DAS now have to suffer because of others abusing it (assuming the change happens).
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What legendary return policy? Are you talking about for legacy paper FP many years ago? Or something else?
 
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capndave

New Member
G00fyDad said:
Okay. $15 per ticket per day for our next trip will be a total of $360 total. That is very "doable" for us. I don't like the whole idea of doing it on the day of and only one at a time but I can live with it.
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Doesn't include the more popular attractions. You have to pay even more to access the lightening lane per ride for those attractions. Total money grab! Disney is pricing themselves out of existence .
 

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