Disney executives worried about VGF sales?

[MickeyPeace]

Here is a possibility....Put the product out at an inflated price and see who bites. If no one does, start dropping the price.

Personally, I think Disney has an over inflated view of the GF. The call it their "flagship resort" and while it is that from a restaurant, amenities, etc, standpoint I have just never seen it that way from a guest popularity standpoint. Sure there are plenty of guests that love the place, but I have seen far more that love the Poly, WL and the Contemporary much, much more.

"Cheapening" a premium product is not exactly good marketing.
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of DVC construction.

 

[DVCOwner]

I think the dues are higher at GF due to all of the extra stuff they are putting into the rooms (such as a TV in the bathroom mirror). All of this stuff takes money to maintain and the dues also have to have a reserve to replace the stuff when it breaks. Yes upfront cost cover are covered under the sell price, but once things need replacement such as bedding and furniture, the cost will be paid out of the dues reserve.

 

[Master Yoda]

"Cheapening" a premium product is not exactly good marketing.
Hopefully this is the beginning of the end of DVC construction.

Quite correct, but it beats the alternative.

 

[DisneyJoe]

The call it their "flagship resort" and while it is that from a restaurant, amenities, etc, standpoint I have just never seen it that way from a guest popularity standpoint.

The flagship of a brand is not defined by it's popularity. From Wikipedia:

"Over the years, the term "flagship" has been borrowed in metaphoric form by industries such as broadcasting, automobiles, cell phones, education, and retailing to refer to their highest profile or most expensive products and outlets."

 

[Master Yoda]

The flagship of a brand is not defined by it's popularity. From Wikipedia:

"Over the years, the term "flagship" has been borrowed in metaphoric form by industries such as broadcasting, automobiles, cell phones, education, and retailing to refer to their highest profile or most expensive products and outlets."

Quite true, but popularity, or in more financial terms, demand, tends to weigh heavy on what can be charged for a particular thing. IMHO, Disney thinks more of the GF than a good portion of the guests do.

 

[Cesar R M]

Quite true, but popularity, or in more financial terms, demand, tends to weigh heavy on what can be charged for a particular thing. IMHO, Disney thinks more of the GF than a good portion of the guests do.

Weird, Usually the "flagship" is intended to things or products that are top of the line.. the best, newest or most valuable thing or most special thing for company, group, individual, nation..etc...

Example for SCIFI: The Enterprise (almost always state of the art and with a long story)
Cell Phones: The Galaxy S4
VideoCards: R290X from ATI, TITAN for Nvidia.


I hardly see how it is used for "popular" products rather than "best and most valuable" thing.


*edit*

as for the VGF...
Perhaps they're trying to put these villas as "super exclusive"(sort of only to rich) type exclusivity ?

 

[Master Yoda]

Weird, Usually the "flagship" is intended to things or products that are top of the line.. the best, newest or most valuable thing or most special thing for company, group, individual, nation..etc...

Example for SCIFI: The Enterprise (almost always state of the art and with a long story)
Cell Phones: The Galaxy S4
VideoCards: R290X from ATI, TITAN for Nvidia.


I hardly see how it is used for "popular" products rather than "best and most valuable" thing.


*edit*

as for the VGF...
Perhaps they're trying to put these villas as "super exclusive"(sort of only to rich) type exclusivity ?

Tech is a little different. There are measurable specs making it the best. The picture gets a little more muddy when you try to assign value to those specs.

The specs of a resort can be quite user dependent. GF is a beautiful, luxurious resorts with some incredible restaurants and I could see where Disney would label it as their flagship. However, I would much rather stay at the Poly and it seems like many others have the same opinion.

You very well might be correct though. If they are marketing to the proverbial 1% it will take longer than normal to sell it out and normal rubes like you and I won't get it, but they will get their asking price.

 

[willtravel]

Typically, how much do maintanence fee's go up per year for DVC resorts? Or does it depend on the DVC? I was thinking of OKW. What did they start off at and are now?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Typically, how much do maintanence fee's go up per year for DVC resorts? Or does it depend on the DVC? I was thinking of OKW. What did they start off at and are now?

OKW was the first DVC, opened in 1991. Started at $2.51; currently at $5.35. It's averaged 3.5% per year since opening.

At WDW, BWV was the second DVC, opened in 1996. Started at $3.70; currently at $5.84. It's averaged 2.8% per year.

It's been different in recent years. BLT opened in 2009 at $3.67. It's now at $4.50. That's 5.2% per year.

Why am I not surprised under Iger?

 

[willtravel]

OKW was the first DVC, opened in 1991. Started at $2.51; currently at $5.35. It's averaged 3.5% per year since opening.

At WDW, BWV was the second DVC, opened in 1996. Started at $3.70; currently at $5.84. It's averaged 2.8% per year.

It's been different in recent years. BLT opened in 2009 at $3.67. It's now at $4.50. That's 5.2% per year.

Why am I not surprised under Iger?

I had a timeshare that was weeks but got converted to points. But I would trade as week. That was when we basically gave it away. With that and the longer you owned the timeshare, the dues got outrageous We got to travel but when the dues good high and trading power went down, I knew it was time to get rid of. I am glad I no longer own. I wonder what the longevity of a DVC is? I guess it depends on the person, finances, and useage.

 

[Cesar R M]

I had a timeshare that was weeks but got converted to points. But I would trade as week. That was when we basically gave it away. With that and the longer you owned the timeshare, the dues got outrageous We got to travel but when the dues good high and trading power went down, I knew it was time to get rid of. I am glad I no longer own. I wonder what the longevity of a DVC is? I guess it depends on the person, finances, and useage.

so.. you could say that the DVC actually lose value over time? or they put more restrictions to older users? (aka less value per points?)

 

[willtravel]

so.. you could say that the DVC actually lose value over time? or they put more restrictions to older users? (aka less value per points?)

I am not saying that at all. MY timeshare was in Estes Park, CO.. A non Disney timeshare. As far as value, personally I think they jigger the value and dues. I know that with my timeshare that even with being free basically when sold, with the yearly dues, I cannot see anyone buying it. I personally think the person who bought mine through a third party got a break in dues. If you look at EBAY you can purchase one's free. People just want to get out of maintanence fees.
In my case, when we orginally bought, the trading power was great. But when we were converted from week to points (the now timeshare standard) thru RCI my trading value went to caput. It started to limit where and when we could go and trade in to. That may not have been RCI's fault but maybe the timeshares themselves. Not sure. And my dues..... oyevah...

 

[ford91exploder]

OKW was the first DVC, opened in 1991. Started at $2.51; currently at $5.35. It's averaged 3.5% per year since opening.

At WDW, BWV was the second DVC, opened in 1996. Started at $3.70; currently at $5.84. It's averaged 2.8% per year.

It's been different in recent years. BLT opened in 2009 at $3.67. It's now at $4.50. That's 5.2% per year.

Why am I not surprised under Iger?

Let's put it this way MF's at BLT are sketchy at best, Especially the housekeeping line and the 'management fee' is far higher than I've seen at any other timeshare.

 

[Phonedave]

Typically, how much do maintanence fee's go up per year for DVC resorts? Or does it depend on the DVC? I was thinking of OKW. What did they start off at and are now?

In a well managed time share, maintanence costs should rise with the cost of inflation. There should be no additional expense work added each year (things like lawn cutting, routine maintanence, housekeeping, front desk, etc) and capital items (new roof, re-paving, room refreshes, etc) should be budgeted in each years dues.

There may be special assesments for things like unexpected damage (storms for example)

There could also me maintainence costs that rise faster than inflation - because of new regulations or increases in materials. But as a whole, the majority of the maintainence costs are labor.

It is law that maintainence fee cover actual costs - there is no profit allowed. Property management has to balance keeing dues low (to keep owners happy) and providing a level of service (again to keep members happy)

-dave

 

[Phonedave]

so.. you could say that the DVC actually lose value over time? or they put more restrictions to older users? (aka less value per points?)

One of the reasons I bought DVC is that it does hold value. The ROFR that DVC exercizes helps to keep the resale market high.

As willtravel said, there are timeshares out there that you can buy for free. My friend has one in the Cayman's in you are interested. He owns it (actualy he owns two weeks, and wants to unload one) and has to pay yearly dues. He has found that he does not really have time to go for two weeks each year. dues have become quite high - especially after some hurricane damage, and he cannot just "give up" the time share. It is like owning a house - you cannot just walk away and not pay property taxes. You have to find somone to buy it (ot take it for free). The time share company does not want the week back either - they have a bunch they are still trying to sell. That was the main thing that scared me off of time shares. The track record of DVC's resale market is what attracted me to it. If I became financially strapped (or just no longer wanted it) I could easily unload it - and even get some of my money back. Of course it is going to loose value, but no where near as quickly as other time shares.

-dave

 

[DVC Mike]

Exactly - Going over in my head, I can't imagine what costs more. Housekeeping and cleaning maybe a bit (cleaning the lobby may take a few extra people) but grounds keeing, mechanical systems, capital expenses (paving, roof replacements, etc), and guest services should not be any more than at other resorts.

it will be interesting to look at what the breakdown in the contract is. DVC MIke bought in, he should have that available to him (or it should be somewhere on the internet)

-dave

VGF is $5.41 per point, which is less than BWV, BCV, VWL, and AKV, and not much more than OKW. I don't get all the talk of VGF dues being so high. Yes, they are higher than BLT and SSR.

 

[DVC Mike]

Typically, how much do maintanence fee's go up per year for DVC resorts? Or does it depend on the DVC? I was thinking of OKW. What did they start off at and are now?

Year OKW BWV VB VB/sub HHI VWL BCV SSR AKV BLT VGC AHV A/Sub
2013 5.34 5.84 7.41 5.80 6.02 5.79 5.65 4.81 5.67 4.50 4.58 6.25 4.70
2012 5.20 5.62 7.12 5.57 5.93 5.61 5.50 4.73 5.44 4.22 4.33 5.96 4.48
2011 4.98 5.46 6.78 5.68 5.68 5.34 5.28 4.51 5.01 3.89 4.07 5.73 4.31
2010 4.87 5.36 6.61 5.18 5.57 5.20 5.15 4.46 4.95 3.78 3.94
2009 4.73 5.21 6.41 4.97 5.36 5.04 5.00 4.34 4.85 3.67 3.82
2008 4.56 5.04 6.04 4.71 5.16 4.87 4.80 4.21 4.71
2007 4.40 4.85 5.63 4.39 4.98 4.73 4.63 4.12 4.62
2006 4.24 4.69 5.27 4.12 4.34 4.61 4.48 3.98
2005 3.86 4.41 4.87 3.84 3.86 4.35 4.27 3.83
2004 3.68 4.25 4.67 3.67 3.70 4.22 4.18 3.80
2003 3.49 4.11 4.37 4.37 3.69 4.05 3.97
2002 3.22 3.92 4.17 3.33 3.49 3.80 3.77
2001 3.13 3.83 3.98 2.70 3.32 3.63
2000 3.16 3.94 4.07 2.87 3.25 3.62
1999 3.16 4.02 3.99 2.82 3.18
1998 3.17 3.94 2.76 3.20
1997 3.14 3.84 2.90 3.16
1996 2.99 3.70 2.82 3.16
1995 2.84
1994 2.70
1993 2.63
1992 2.56
1991 2.51

 

[GoofGoof]

VGF is $5.41 per point, which is less than BWV, BCV, VWL, and AKV, and not much more than OKW. I don't get all the talk of VGF dues being so high. Yes, they are higher than BLT and SSR.

I think it's because it's new and the assumption is there will be a further bump in dues in a year or 2. Using BLT as an example, while the units were selling the dues were much lower and then there was a pretty big bump (16% in the last 2 years). DVC will probably tell you the bump is due to additional rooms being switched over from cash to DVC points as more contracts are signed. Some would speculate they are kept low in the beginning to help the sales process. Who knows which is right. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Cesar R M]

I think it's because it's new and the assumption is there will be a further bump in dues in a year or 2. Using BLT as an example, while the units were selling the dues were much lower and then there was a pretty big bump (16% in the last 2 years). DVC will probably tell you the bump is due to additional rooms being switched over from cash to DVC points as more contracts are signed. Some would speculate they are kept low in the beginning to help the sales process. Who knows which is right. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

I wonder if some real pro regarding DVC will know the truth about the real costs of every single step of the process..... because at this point.. it seems to be reaching the mysterious levels of "We May Never Know"

 

[willtravel]

It's not merely the high initial Maintenance Fee (MF) at VGF, it's also the number of points needed for a stay.

For example, looking at the cost of a week in a Standard View Studio during Magic Season, multiplying points times MF:

- OKW: 108 points X $5.34/point = $577
- SSR: 120 points X $4.81/point = $577
- BLT: 139 points X $4.50/point = $626
- BVW: 108 points X $5.84/point = $630
- AKV: 116 points X $5.67/point = $658
- VWL: 127 points X $5.79/point = $735
- BCV: 134 points X $5.65/point = $757
- VGF: 169 points X $5.41/point = $914

VGF is 20% more than the extremely popular BCV and 46% more than BLT, the other Monorail DVC.

Last month, VGF and AKV had nearly identical sales figures. With discounts, AKV is selling for around $130/point (depending on how many points are purchased).

With it's $150/point buy-in price plus much higher per-night cost, it appears DVC buyer are opting for AKV and VGF in equal numbers despite VGF's vastly superior location.

So, your points is your maintenance fee? Or points needed and maintenance fee are separate fee's?