"Disney Early Morning Magic - Fantasyland" Anyone know?

andysol

Well-Known Member
Seriously, what the heck is wrong with people? Disney can't FORCE anyone to buy an upcharge product. If this doesn't appeal to you, then don't do it. It doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form. Especially considering this is listed under Dining, of course it's "upcharge." Otherwise it would be what, free food?

You realize if this removes EMH, that it does affect people? I'd rather have the two FP entitlements, personally- but others might have preferred EMH. So why discount their concerns?

Not taking EMH into account- do you realize that a reduction in park hours does affect not only the park where hours are reduced, but the other parks as well where crowds are redirected?

And lastly- while just a dessert party or breakfast party in and of itself is no big deal, the writing is on the wall for downward trends all over the place. Even a Disney lover such as me can see the writing all over the wall. Your blind loyalty and strong defending of Disney in every single thread and every single action is starting to become very obnoxious. We don't even know what this event is, and yet you're already defending it. Disney isn't infallible.
 

NYwdwfan

Well-Known Member
And what's wrong with defending Disney when it seems appropriate? I get awfully tired of all the complaining with never any suggestions about how to make things better other than "charge me less money".

Not "charge me less money" - more like "stop taking away a benefit that was previously included as a perk of an on-site stay to reduce park hours and create an experience that costs money to attend".
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
We don't even know what this event is, and yet you're already defending it.
We don't even know what it is, and many are already condemning it. You haven't jumped all over them. Why should we have to wait for details to defend, but not to condemn?

For what it's worth, I don't see these moves as spelling the death of EMH. Don't get me wrong, EMH may die, but not because of any early morning or late night upcharge events. The upcharge event look to me like a company that is trying to squeeze money out of assets at a time they are otherwise unused and generating nothing. It's like renting your house out to somebody else while you're out of town. There are certainly consequences to that (less time for maintenance being one), but managed appropriately, it's a smart thing to do for the company. While EMH isn't generating revenue directly, it does generate revenue by allowing hotel rates to be higher than they otherwise would be. EMH will die when Disney decides that the incremental revenue generated from EMH by pushing hotel rates higher isn't enough to offset the cost of opening the parks for hotel guests during EMH. That is largely independent from any other use of the parks when they aren't open to regular paying guests.

My concern with these events is that they could cause Disney to shorten hours that the parks are available to the general public. That would be greatly annoying. I already hate it when MK closes at 7 due to the Xmas and Halloween parties.
 
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CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
You realize if this removes EMH, that it does affect people? I'd rather have the two FP entitlements, personally- but others might have preferred EMH. So why discount their concerns?
Except there's zero evidence of that. It's like someone saying "I don't like Hershey chocolate because they use slave labor in Australia to grow their cacao." It's an illegitimate criticism because Hershey doesn't use slave labor in Australia to grow their cacao. You can't be mad at Disney for doing something they have neither done nor expressed any intention of doing.

Not taking EMH into account- do you realize that a reduction in park hours does affect not only the park where hours are reduced, but the other parks as well where crowds are redirected?
Last I checked, the parks are still opening at 9:00 every day, just like they always have. If that goes to 10:00, I'll be right there with you. I'd just rather not get all worked up and outraged over something that hasn't happened yet, and very likely never will.

And lastly- while just a dessert party or breakfast party in and of itself is no big deal, the writing is on the wall for downward trends all over the place. Even a Disney lover such as me can see the writing all over the wall. Your blind loyalty and strong defending of Disney in every single thread and every single action is starting to become very obnoxious. They aren't infallible.
That's because you apparently only read half of my posts. In the thread where I defended the "after hours" event, I strongly criticized the Halloween and Christmas parties for having the effect on regular operating hours that you described. In other threads where I've defended the pricing on certain products, I've also expressed my belief that things like the Grand Floridian, CRT and BBB are tremendous wastes of money. I've frequently talked about my hatred of DVC and the dining plan, though not necessarily for the same reasons that others dislike them. Just because I don't get all agitated at the same things that send everyone into a tizzy, doesn't mean I'm a "blind loyalist" that defends everything Disney does.
 
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SoccerMickey

Active Member
These events don't really bother me since they would have no effect on my vacation what so ever.

They might not now but I'm pretty sure Disney is watching ticket sales very closely and if they can get people to pay almost $100 for a Perkins' breakfast, and an extra $150 for only 3 hours regardless what the entertainment is, regardless where it is held, then only time will tell when they say a day at Walt Disney World theme parks is really quite the bargain and the ticket prices rise to a price no one wants to talk about.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
How long ago was it when one of the more frequent complaints around here was "too many meet and greets"? I'd wager maybe three months ago. Now it's too few? Got it.

I am thinking the same thing. If Disney adds a meet and greet their is an outcry about that. Now if they take one away it is the end of Walt Disney World as we know it. This just proves what I have been talking about the last few months, no matter what Disney does it is wrong. I see things I do not like, but I see a lot of changes happening that will improve my experience at Walt Disney World.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
And what's wrong with defending Disney when it seems appropriate? I get awfully tired of all the complaining with never any suggestions about how to make things better other than "charge me less money".

I think you are right. I think Disney has not put enough money into maintaining the existing parks for years and have written Disney about it. I have posted about several things that I have been disappointed with, but if you post something positive you are a duster and do not understand what is really happening.
 

wdrive

Well-Known Member
I am thinking the same thing. If Disney adds a meet and greet their is an outcry about that. Now if they take one away it is the end of Walt Disney World as we know it. This just proves what I have been talking about the last few months, no matter what Disney does it is wrong. I see things I do not like, but I see a lot of changes happening that will improve my experience at Walt Disney World.

You're missing the point entirely. If they added a meet and greet, let's say Pinocchio and Geppetto, somewhere outdoors in Fantasyland I doubt anyone would complain. It's when they make a meet and greet and bill at as a new attaction, or rip an attraction out and replace it with a meet and greet is when people complain.

Was anyone complaining when they added Flik and Tarzan to the Animal Kingdom recently? No, not that I saw anywhere.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
And what's wrong with defending Disney when it seems appropriate? I get awfully tired of all the complaining with never any suggestions about how to make things better other than "charge me less money".
Keep the parks open for hours appropriate to crowds, keep the parks maintained, serve good and adequate food for the prices, change out the trash, adequately staff your parks and resorts. Build new rides sporadically and update nighttime entertainment at least on a 10-year rotation.

You know, the standards they had the first three decades.

I'm tired of defenders having inane comments like yours. Even the owner of this website, who has long remained rational and avoided sensationalizing news has become critical of the management of parks and resorts lately.
 

andysol

Well-Known Member
I'm tired of defenders having inane comments like yours. Even the owner of this website, who has long remained rational and avoided sensationalizing news has become critical of the management of parks and resorts lately.

How could anyone not be? I see news, and I cringe. That's my first reaction, even before reading it. That's the environment that Disney created. Know what happened when you heard news 20 years ago? You'd get excited. That's the environment that Disney created then. Those quick to rush to judgement have every right to based on the actions of TWDC the last decade- and particularly the last 4-5 years. But it's nothing like these last 2-3 months. These last 2-3 months have been- in my opinion- the most asinine moves TWDC has ever made- namely because of the circumstances (i.e.- record crowds and profit).
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
Not "charge me less money" - more like "stop taking away a benefit that was previously included as a perk of an on-site stay to reduce park hours and create an experience that costs money to attend".

I'd argue that it's so much more than that. Yes, there are some here who will post that Disney is an evil corporation and everything is too expensive regardless of what they're charging.

There are others, I'd say the majority minus those mentioned above and the Disney defenders, who get the whole free market deal and accept that Disney can charge what the market will bear.

The problem is multi-faceted:
- Maintenance seems to be lacking (Condition of the Monorails is a good example but there are others)
- Cutbacks on staff
- Mandatory resort fees (not sure if this was just floated or if this is now in effect)
- Premium parking (yeah, you don't have to pay it)
- a record year in attendance for both Florida and Disney
- Cuts in entertainment and M&Gs
- Cheapening of the experience (no more resort-specific mugs is off the top of my head, using paper napkins at TS restaurants instead of cloth)
- The $150/head After Hours Deal
- The cutting back of park hours
- The Bungalows out in front of Polynesian (your fancy $500 lagoon-facing room is now blocked by $3000 Bungalows) - it's not horrible, but some may see it as a finger int he eye.
- Stagnant parks.
- Recent new additions being a bit lackluster
- New things coming taking a very long time and it's a bit of "too little, too late". Prices/fees are being raised now. New things still have a few years to make an appearance.
- The selling of the park multiple times a day which impedes others paying the normal ticket to enjoy the parks into the night (think Halloween and Christmas) without paying more.
- There are other instances of either cutbacks or increased costs but they're just not on the tip of my tongue right now.

There's so much more to this than, "People just want to complain for the sake of complaining," or, "People just don't want to pay." There are many long-time Disney loyalists who've been visiting WDW for decades who understand it's a set of theme parks and they're there to make money who are getting turned off by all of this.

That's the thing that's kind of amazing about it - it's seen as a huge cash grab by Disney in both cuts and new fees/special ticketed events, etc... It's almost like they're trying to off their long-time fans - to see where the breaking point is.

Imagine that you have a resort and you have guests who love the place and come back quite frequently - some once a year, many several times a year. Now let's say you wanted to start getting rid of them. You'd pretty much do everything Disney is doing right now. Everyone has their breaking point and for some it's already been met. For others, it's still a ways off.

These are loyal customers who've been dumping out their wallets at WDW for decades, quite freely and willingly.

What if they added these:
- Check-in courtesy fee $25 (the CM behind the desk has to be paid, after all)
- Mandatory laundry fee $10/day
- Mandatory utility fee $10/day
- Ticket purchase convenience fee $10
- Before Noon Special Ticketed Event: $150 - gets you exclusive access to a park before noon
- Expanded the After Dark event to be 6PM-midnight

The point is that you could come up with all sorts of fees and gimmicks and, at some point, people start wondering, "Well, what's the cost of my room covering?," and some defender will say, "That's obvious: The walls, ceiling, and floor." Or perhaps, "What does my ticket to the MK get me?," and, again, some defender will state, "Well, that's obvious, it allows you daytime access between the hours of noon and 6PM. If you want to meet Mickey, though, it's a special ticketed event!" It all gets rather silly and eventually people just have enough of it and go elsewhere.

It's a lot more than just a simple statement of, "People don't want to pay..."
 

TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
I'm going to have a little tinfoil theory fun here. After all, I've been wearing my tinfoil hat nonstop in 2016 -- goofing around with a lot of crazy ASOIAF theories while waiting for The Winds of Winter to be released. So here goes:
What if (adjusts tinfoil hat nervously), what if the survey about the resort fee wasn't about actually charging resort fees, but was really Disney's way of gauging the importance of benefits like EMH to see how bad the outcry would be if they reduced or eliminated them?
(Totally just goofing around here. I'm having a crazy week and wanted to amuse myself a bit.) ;)
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
I'd argue that it's so much more than that. Yes, there are some here who will post that Disney is an evil corporation and everything is too expensive regardless of what they're charging.

There are others, I'd say the majority minus those mentioned above and the Disney defenders, who get the whole free market deal and accept that Disney can charge what the market will bear.

The problem is multi-faceted:
- Maintenance seems to be lacking (Condition of the Monorails is a good example but there are others)
- Cutbacks on staff
- Mandatory resort fees (not sure if this was just floated or if this is now in effect)
- Premium parking (yeah, you don't have to pay it)
- a record year in attendance for both Florida and Disney
- Cuts in entertainment and M&Gs
- Cheapening of the experience (no more resort-specific mugs is off the top of my head, using paper napkins at TS restaurants instead of cloth)
- The $150/head After Hours Deal
- The cutting back of park hours
- The Bungalows out in front of Polynesian (your fancy $500 lagoon-facing room is now blocked by $3000 Bungalows) - it's not horrible, but some may see it as a finger int he eye.
- Stagnant parks.
- Recent new additions being a bit lackluster
- New things coming taking a very long time and it's a bit of "too little, too late". Prices/fees are being raised now. New things still have a few years to make an appearance.
- The selling of the park multiple times a day which impedes others paying the normal ticket to enjoy the parks into the night (think Halloween and Christmas) without paying more.
- There are other instances of either cutbacks or increased costs but they're just not on the tip of my tongue right now.

There's so much more to this than, "People just want to complain for the sake of complaining," or, "People just don't want to pay." There are many long-time Disney loyalists who've been visiting WDW for decades who understand it's a set of theme parks and they're there to make money who are getting turned off by all of this.

That's the thing that's kind of amazing about it - it's seen as a huge cash grab by Disney in both cuts and new fees/special ticketed events, etc... It's almost like they're trying to **** off their long-time fans - to see where the breaking point is.

Imagine that you have a resort and you have guests who love the place and come back quite frequently - some once a year, many several times a year. Now let's say you wanted to start getting rid of them. You'd pretty much do everything Disney is doing right now. Everyone has their breaking point and for some it's already been met. For others, it's still a ways off.

These are loyal customers who've been dumping out their wallets at WDW for decades, quite freely and willingly.

What if they added these:
- Check-in courtesy fee $25 (the CM behind the desk has to be paid, after all)
- Mandatory laundry fee $10/day
- Mandatory utility fee $10/day
- Ticket purchase convenience fee $10
- Before Noon Special Ticketed Event: $150 - gets you exclusive access to a park before noon
- Expanded the After Dark event to be 6PM-midnight

The point is that you could come up with all sorts of fees and gimmicks and, at some point, people start wondering, "Well, what's the cost of my room covering?," and some defender will say, "That's obvious: The walls, ceiling, and floor." Or perhaps, "What does my ticket to the MK get me?," and, again, some defender will state, "Well, that's obvious, it allows you daytime access between the hours of noon and 6PM. If you want to meet Mickey, though, it's a special ticketed event!" It all gets rather silly and eventually people just have enough of it and go elsewhere.

It's a lot more than just a simple statement of, "People don't want to pay..."

^This^

I have money, so I don't mind paying for a few extra things, like a hard ticketed event. However, I will object when resort services for decades were included in the price of my room. Doesn't it remind you just a little of what airlines have done? A fee to check your bag, a fee if you want a pillow or blanket, etc. Airlines justified such fees due to skyrocketing fuel prices. Disney just crowed about record profits... but then there's that park in China. I think what lots of Disney fans feel is that park is bleeding the rest of P&R to the detriment of the U.S. parks.
 

psherman42

Well-Known Member
If this is sort of special breakfast thing out in the park, that actually does sound pretty cool and I would actually consider it f the price was reasonable. Much better than the after hours thing imo. However, I don't want this to impact EMH. A lot of you are saying you avoid those days but especially at MK, that extra hour can be extremely valuable if you're there during peak seasons. Until EMH is removed, i don't have a problem with these extra events because I'm not being forced to purchase them. HOWEVER, if this does result in EMH being eliminated then i will be upset. I defend Disney as much as I can, but some of what is happening across the resort has soured me a bit. Enough to stop me from going? No, not yet. But if they cut hours, staff, etc. and continue to raise prices, that's hard to defend because you're charging people for less of an experience. Especially for a company that has as much money as Disney.
 

Tinkerbella16

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If this is sort of special breakfast thing out in the park, that actually does sound pretty cool and I would actually consider it f the price was reasonable. Much better than the after hours thing imo. However, I don't want this to impact EMH. A lot of you are saying you avoid those days but especially at MK, that extra hour can be extremely valuable if you're there during peak seasons. Until EMH is removed, i don't have a problem with these extra events because I'm not being forced to purchase them. HOWEVER, if this does result in EMH being eliminated then i will be upset. I defend Disney as much as I can, but some of what is happening across the resort has soured me a bit. Enough to stop me from going? No, not yet. But if they cut hours, staff, etc. and continue to raise prices, that's hard to defend because you're charging people for less of an experience. Especially for a company that has as much money as Disney.
I love EMH, mainly evening EMH - especially when it was 3 extra hours, but even those extra 2 hours are great! There is a whole lot more open during evening EMH than morning EMH. And morning EMH at MK is great and all, but most of the park isn't even opened during that hour. Adventureland, Liberty Square and Frontierland were all closed on morning EMH. Is this different during peak times? I usually go in November, so that is what it was when I was there. And for the life of me could not remember in the past if all of those things were always closed for morning EMH.
 
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psherman42

Well-Known Member
I love EMH, mainly evening EMH - especially when it was 3 extra hours, but even those extra 2 hours are great! There is a whole lot more open during evening EMH than morning EMH. And morning EMH at MK is great and all, but most of the park isn't even opened during that hour. Adventureland, Liberty Square and Frontierland were all closed on morning EMH. Is this different during peak times? I usually go in November, so that is what it was when I was there. And for the life of me could not remember in the past if all of those things were always closed for morning EMH.
The whole park not being opened though in the mornng doesn't bother us. We go to Mine Train and then Space Mountain and Buzz. By then, we see what time it is and if we can squeeze anything else in before heading for Frontierland/Liberty Square.
 

Tinkerbella16

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The whole park not being opened though in the mornng doesn't bother us. We go to Mine Train and then Space Mountain and Buzz. By then, we see what time it is and if we can squeeze anything else in before heading for Frontierland/Liberty Square.
Yeah, everybody is different when it comes to which rides they'd like to go during that hour. I love Splash and BTMR, so if I can get as many rides in on just those alone before regular opening, I would be happy. I just stayed in Tomorrowland and had the Peoplemover all to myself, which was so nice! :D
 

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