Disney, DONT bring back 180-day-in-advance restaurant reservations.

[Robbydj13]

"The planning is the enjoyment" for people like you and me! However, I know a lot of guests, first-timers or not, who absolutely hate the idea of trying to figure things out that far in advance -- which is why there are so many Disney-centered TAs doing a brisk business handling all of those details on their behalf. In fact, even for those of us who love the planning, the fact that WDW is constantly changing menus, parks hours, park reservation availability, and refurb schedules with little or no notice means we spend months not just making plans, but changing them around again and again. So long as WDW isn't doing its _own_ planning (or committing to a particular schedule) 6 or more months ahead, I think it's probably to everyone's advantage that we don't have to either.

I would disagree. Everything is easily planned, and most people understand that WDW trips require planning and are either too lazy to do it or just dont care enough to do it. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to research things to look at and pay attention to, especially in this day and age with so much technology.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Without looking back, you were upset that you had to book a meal so many days out, and how would you ever know what you wanted to eat 60 days from now.

Close?


Perhaps you have a point. All I was responding to was this statement, a direct quote from you - "Does anyone seriously know what they want to eat 60 days from now more than they know what they want to eat 180 days from now?"

If you went on to make another point, it was something I didn't care about.

No. I didn’t go on to make another point. The statement that you just quoted from me was the one and only point I was making and it was the very point that you totally missed. I was simply saying that the 60-day mark is really no different than the 180-day mark when it comes to deciding what you want to eat. I was pointing out that if someone feels that 180 days is just too far out to plan a restaurant, then 60 days wouldn’t be much better for that person. Thus, your original reply was totally unresponsive to the point I made. I’m not faulting you for missing my point, I’m just telling you that you did.

Anyway, you still owe me a nickel.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I would disagree. Everything is easily planned, and most people understand that WDW trips require planning and are either too lazy to do it or just dont care enough to do it. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to research things to look at and pay attention to, especially in this day and age with so much technology.

I daresay, the WDWMagic webpage proves the exact opposite is true.
Just go to WDWmagic.com, and hover over the 'info' link. Just that one page alone has many links.

Just the park tickets alone (and this table is dated 2015!):

 

[Robbydj13]

I daresay, the WDWMagic webpage proves the exact opposite is true.
Just go to WDWmagic.com, and hover over the 'info' link. Just that one page alone has many links.

Just the park tickets alone (and this table is dated 2015!):
View attachment 553447

Not sure where you are going with that. If I was going to start researching for a Disney trip, I would hardly start there, I would probably go to waltdisneyworld.com and work my way from there. But hey....common sense. Not to mention calling Disney and asking those questions. Ignorance should not be used as an excuse in this case

 

[Worldlover71]

Due to my job, I'm rarely able to plan my trips more than three months in advance. This puts me at a disadvantage when trying to book ADRs. I don't see why someone should get an advantage just because they can plan further in advance. A shorter booking window puts everyone on more equal footing.

 

[Robbydj13]

Due to my job, I'm rarely able to plan my trips more than three months in advance. This puts me at a disadvantage when trying to book ADRs. I don't see why someone should get an advantage just because they can plan further in advance. A shorter booking window puts everyone on more equal footing.

Because that is life, and life isn't fair.

Why should people have to wait to book just because you cannot book early?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Not sure where you are going with that. If I was going to start researching for a Disney trip, I would hardly start there, I would probably go to waltdisneyworld.com and work my way from there. But hey....common sense. Not to mention calling Disney and asking those questions. Ignor ance should not be used as an excuse in this case

My point was that I don't think this website would exist if planning a WDW trip was easy/simple.

I've been a forum member for many years, and I still learn new things about WDW all the time.

 

[Robbydj13]

My point was that I don't think this website would exist if planning a WDW trip was easy/simple.

I've been a forum member for many years, and I still learn new things about WDW all the time.

As do I, but the point is...the more experienced should have the advantage. The person who has been multiple times should and does know more. But saying the first time doesn’t have enough resources to plan adequately is crazy

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Because that is life, and life isn't fair.

Why should people have to wait to book just because you cannot book early?

I think the person you quoted already answered that. They already said, "a shorter booking window puts everyone on more equal footing."

Are you familiar with WDW's Bounceback offers? I've booked that offer many times. As in, my return trip is already booked well before most folks can even see room prices for the next calendar year.

But I also think sometimes it is fun to be on equal footing with everyone else.

 

[Robbydj13]

I think the person you quoted already answered that. They already said, "a shorter booking window puts everyone on more equal footing."

Are you familiar with WDW's Bounceback offers? I've booked that offer many times. As in, my return trip is already booked well before most folks can even see room prices for the next calendar year.

But I also think sometimes it is fun to be on equal footing with everyone else.

Nah, I’d rather have an advantage as long as it’s earned fairly
Yes, I have done bounceback many times on WDW and cruises. It is a great asset to any vacation if you are able to take advantage. But just because it doesn't work for others, doesn't mean we should only allow bookings starting at 60 days. My point is, what is considered fair should have no bearing on anything.

 

[PiratesMansion]

It can be complicated, yes. But, it sounds like your'e talking about things you think should be more fair to guests. My opinion, if you are able to book early, and you do, then you should get more rewards than others who book more last minute. IT works that way on a cruise when you reserve your staterooms. And I also believe experience should matter and benefit those that frequent WDW vs the first timers. It's like anything else, the more you do something, the better you become at it. Disney is no exception, and most theme parks are that way. Disney is just grander with more options.

Yes, things should be more fair. Is that bad? Because that sounds great to me.

It's not like people who have done WDW many times would suddenly *not* have advantages if these windows, etc. were to suddenly go away forever or change.

If you walk in blind as is, you are at a huge disadvantage. At such a huge disadvantage that I couldn't 100% blame them if they never wanted to come back again. No othe major theme park I've been to, Disney or otherwise, puts you at such a disadvantage as WDW does. If you feel sufficiently disadvantaged, why would you pay such high prices to do it again but "correctly" this time?

I hear everything you’re saying and you definitely make some really good points. The problem, however, is that WDW is not like any other place on earth. It just isn’t. It’s different and with that difference comes some good things and some bad things. Pre-planning so far in advance might be good or it might be bad depending on your perspective. Regardless, it’s been this way for a while and it’s likely here to stay, so it’s just part of the WDW experience that one has to accept.

It's a big theme park complex. Bigger and more complex than others, yes, but still a big theme park complex.

I reject the notion that because it's been this way for awhile that it's fine. Why is there so much planning? Not really because it's a better experience or to give the savvier consumers a leg up. Because Disney has a financial incentive to do so. And why wouldn't they? So many people just lap it up and never seem to question it. No other park, Disney or otherwise, requires so much planning. And at a certain point, I have to wonder if it's really benefitting me anymore. Is it really fine for WDW just because it's bigger? It's not as if the rest of the world's theme parks are inherently inferior places that have nothing going for them whatsoever.

I would disagree. Everything is easily planned, and most people understand that WDW trips require planning and are either too lazy to do it or just dont care enough to do it. It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to research things to look at and pay attention to, especially in this day and age with so much technology.

Do they though?

Most people I know put literally zero thought into going to theme parks. The idea that they need to plan for a park at all is a foreign concept. For most people it's basically this: Parks have rides. Rides are fun. I want to go on rides. Sounds like a fun day! This is not to demean those people-plenty of them are quite intelligent when it comes to other things in life. But I've yet to meet someone who has ever deduced for themselves that they should think about planning a park visit, anywhere. I've always had to tell them. People *know* I know a lot about the parks, but I am seldom asked for advice. Why? It simply never occurs to them that they would need to ask advice to do something as seemingly simple as going to a theme park.

This is where most people are. They assume, rightly or wrongly, they should have a reasonable expectation of entering a park and being able to do everything they want to do. Especially since that's still basically possible at, say, Disneyland and Universal Orlando unless they're coming during a crazy holiday period.

And this site isn't really that representative of the general populace's take on this issue. Maybe I'm not looking in the right forums, but I see very few people in here trying to make sense of their first trip ever. Most people on forums like these are veterans who have done this time and time again, know the system, know the tricks. That's NOT generally going to be the view of someone trying to make sense of this as a first timer.

Should people use the resources they have to make more informed decisions and plan for their trips? Absolutely. Is all of this as necessary as many people here think or as coherent to a first timer as people assume? I'd say no.

 

[Robbydj13]

Yes, things should be more fair. Is that bad? Because that sounds great to me.

It's not like people who have done WDW many times would suddenly *not* have advantages if these windows, etc. were to suddenly go away forever or change.

I am not sure if you understand the meaning of the word fair. Nothing about what I have said is unfair. In fact, my ideas provide equal opportunity, but not equal outcome, which it seems like you believe in. However, I do not.

If you walk in blind as is, you are at a huge disadvantage. At such a huge disadvantage that I couldn't 100% blame them if they never wanted to come back again. No othe major theme park I've been to, Disney or otherwise, puts you at such a disadvantage as WDW does. If you feel sufficiently disadvantaged, why would you pay such high prices to do it again but "correctly" this time?

It's a big theme park complex. Bigger and more complex than others, yes, but still a big theme park complex.

I reject the notion that because it's been this way for awhile that it's fine. Why is there so much planning? Not really because it's a better experience or to give the savvier consumers a leg up. Because Disney has a financial incentive to do so. And why wouldn't they? So many people just lap it up and never seem to question it. No other park, Disney or otherwise, requires so much planning. And at a certain point, I have to wonder if it's really benefitting me anymore. Is it really fine for WDW just because it's bigger? It's not as if the rest of the world's theme parks are inherently inferior places that have nothing going for them whatsoever.

Do they though?

Most people I know put literally zero thought into going to theme parks. The idea that they need to plan for a park at all is a foreign concept. For most people it's basically this: Parks have rides. Rides are fun. I want to go on rides. Sounds like a fun day! This is not to demean those people-plenty of them are quite intelligent when it comes to other things in life. But I've yet to meet someone who has ever deduced for themselves that they should think about planning a park visit, anywhere. I've always had to tell them. People *know* I know a lot about the parks, but I am seldom asked for advice. Why? It simply never occurs to them that they would need to ask advice to do something as seemingly simple as going to a theme park.

This is where most people are. They assume, rightly or wrongly, they should have a reasonable expectation of entering a park and being able to do everything they want to do. Especially since that's still basically possible at, say, Disneyland and Universal Orlando unless they're coming during a crazy holiday period.

And this site isn't really that representative of the general populace's take on this issue. Maybe I'm not looking in the right forums, but I see very few people in here trying to make sense of their first trip ever. Most people on forums like these are veterans who have done this time and time again, know the system, know the tricks. That's NOT generally going to be the view of someone trying to make sense of this as a first timer.

Should people use the resources they have to make more informed decisions and plan for their trips? Absolutely. Is all of this as necessary as many people here think or as coherent to a first timer as people assume? I'd say no.

Its more than a theme park. That is just a fact. And classifying it as "just another theme park" shows nothing but ignorance from someone who I guarantee knows better. You and I both know it is much more than that. Watching a YouTube video or 5 minutes worth of research will tell you that and tell you that going to Disney World requires planning.
My first trip ever was semi-planned, and nowhere as coordinated as it is now. And you know what, I kept going back. I didn't expect to know everything the first time, and I didn't. First timers shouldn't expect to know the ins and outs like veterans do. They can still have fun. This belief you have baffles me. The excuses you make for these people baffles me.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

As I said, I learned to live with the 180 days. Over the years, we have tried just about every possible WDW option.

Knowledge is a useful tool.

Planning can also be useful.

But I also see value in spontaneity, and NOT having to plan the exact details of my vacation.

Many times my WDW plans have gone astray. Ahem, 2020!

Sometimes planning can = rigidity, where flexibility is more useful.

When I consider this topic, I consider not just about my personal plans, but whether the 180 days was good for WDW. I don't know for certain, but my gut reaction is to think it wasn't working as well for Disney as they thought it would, and the pandemic has given them an opportunity to re-think a little.

One aspect of park touring that was getting a bit out of balance in 2019 was how much people were constantly using using their phones in the parks instead of living in the moment. The more time commitments park-goers have, the more aware they are of time.

Also, the bigger our time investment (planning) the more our expectations rise. Just, if we spend time making FP, we expect to be able to use those FP. The further out we book ADR's/FP/hotel reservations, the harder it becomes for Disney to schedule a remodel or repair. People become attached to their investments and plans. It isn't just the time it takes to rebook a room, it the greater emotional loss people feel when their plans go astray.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I am not sure if you understand the meaning of the word fair. Nothing about what I have said is unfair. In fact, my ideas provide equal opportunity, but not equal outcome, which it seems like you believe in. However, I do not.

Its more than a theme park. That is just a fact. And classifying it as "just another theme park" shows nothing but ignorance from someone who I guarantee knows better. You and I both know it is much more than that. Watching a YouTube video or 5 minutes worth of research will tell you that and tell you that going to Disney World requires planning.
My first trip ever was semi-planned, and nowhere as coordinated as it is now. And you know what, I kept going back. I didn't expect to know everything the first time, and I didn't. First timers shouldn't expect to know the ins and outs like veterans do. They can still have fun. This belief you have baffles me. The excuses you make for these people baffles me.

It is just a theme park complex. A bigger and more complex one than others, but yeah, that's what it is. Not sure why that's a revelation.

Please share with me all the people you've met who have known to expect the level of planning you need to have a successful trip to WDW now without you telling them. I'm not sure there are that many.

If your first visit was indeed in 2000, you started going when there was less of a learning curve and the prices were much lower. Not exactly equivalent to going for the first time right now.

But at any rate, I'm just one person sharing their opinion. I never said these first timers couldn't have good trips, but that the number of pitfalls is, in my view, unnecessarily large. At any rate, your opinion towards "these people" baffles me and speaks volumes.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Maybe I'm not looking in the right forums, but I see very few people in here trying to make sense of their first trip ever.

Other forums (I've read) do have a higher percent of first timers. Or...maybe not first time ever, but people who maybe went 20+ years ago as children.

For a curious experience, visit a AAA office. (or well...I suppose that would be a pre-pandemic/post-pandemic AAA office). Oh, that's a special place. It is an interesting experience to be sitting in a AAA office, and trying NOT to eavesdrop, but nevertheless overhearing a AAA Disney trip planner giving a customer incorrect information about WDW.

Minions moment: "Must resist the temptation of the banana!"
"Banana??!?!"
"Banana!"
BANANA!!!!!

 

[Robbydj13]

It is just a theme park complex. A bigger and more complex one than others, but yeah, that's what it is. Not sure why that's a revelation.

A theme park is a generic name for what it is. Cedar Point is an amusement park, Six Flags is an amusement park, Disney is WAAAAAY more.

Please share with me all the people you've met who have known to expect the level of planning you need to have a successful trip to WDW now without you telling them. I'm not sure there are that many.

There are plenty who research on their own. I'm sure there are plenty who don't look up much, but in this day and age, I doubt there are many who haven't researched it to a point.

If your first visit was indeed in 2000, you started going when there was less of a learning curve and the prices were much lower. Not exactly equivalent to going for the first time right now.

But at any rate, I'm just one person sharing their opinion. I never said these first timers couldn't have good trips, but that the number of pitfalls is, in my view, unnecessarily large. At any rate, your opinion towards "these people" baffles me and speaks volumes.

I bought 2 travel books for my first trip, the PassPorter WDW Guide book and Birnbaum's I believe. Both were very helpful and gave a lot of info, but nowhere near what the internet and YouTube provides now.
Please enlighten me...what speaks volumes? The fact I will not coddle people or let their laziness slide. It takes 2 seconds to youtube a planning video, and its as easy as ever in todays times

 

[PiratesMansion]

A theme park is a generic name for what it is. Cedar Point is an amusement park, Six Flags is an amusement park, Disney is WAAAAAY more.

There are plenty who research on their own. I'm sure there are plenty who don't look up much, but in this day and age, I doubt there are many who haven't researched it to a point.

I bought 2 travel books for my first trip, the PassPorter WDW Guide book and Birnbaum's I believe. Both were very helpful and gave a lot of info, but nowhere near what the internet and YouTube provides now.
Please enlighten me...what speaks volumes? The fact I will not coddle people or let their laziness slide. It takes 2 seconds to youtube a planning video, and its as easy as ever in todays times

Sorry. It IS just a theme park. Not sure again why you take such issue with facts.

Trust me, I've been to all of them. They are very good theme parks. Not seeing the controversy there.

So you assert that the people who come for the first time simply must research but have no actual proof, even anecdotally? Ok then.

Sure, the internet makes things easier. But let's not pretend planning hasn't gotten more complex too.

I'm sure there's a way to not coddle people and still be less condescending. In fact, I'm certain of it.

 

[Robbydj13]

Sorry. It IS just a theme park. Not sure again why you take such issue with facts.

Trust me, I've been to all of them. They are very good theme parks. Not seeing the controversy there.

So you assert that the people who come for the first time simply must research but have no actual proof, even anecdotally? Ok then.

Sure, the internet makes things easier. But let's not pretend planning hasn't gotten more complex too.

I'm sure there's a way to not coddle people and still be less condescending. In fact, I'm certain of it.

I am always willing to help people plan their trip, and I do it frequently. But I won't feel sorry for people who choose not to plan.
Did things used to be simpler? Of course! But as things have changed, we have had to learn more and adapt. The ever changing world of Disney levels the playing field to an extent. But bottom line, people still have to try to plan. There's no way around it. Hell, people taking cruises have to plan. Everything takes planning!

I have as much proof as you do on the percentage of people who plan.

 

[JusticeDisney]

Yes, things should be more fair. Is that bad? Because that sounds great to me.

It's not like people who have done WDW many times would suddenly *not* have advantages if these windows, etc. were to suddenly go away forever or change.

If you walk in blind as is, you are at a huge disadvantage. At such a huge disadvantage that I couldn't 100% blame them if they never wanted to come back again. No othe major theme park I've been to, Disney or otherwise, puts you at such a disadvantage as WDW does. If you feel sufficiently disadvantaged, why would you pay such high prices to do it again but "correctly" this time?

It's a big theme park complex. Bigger and more complex than others, yes, but still a big theme park complex.

I reject the notion that because it's been this way for awhile that it's fine. Why is there so much planning? Not really because it's a better experience or to give the savvier consumers a leg up. Because Disney has a financial incentive to do so. And why wouldn't they? So many people just lap it up and never seem to question it. No other park, Disney or otherwise, requires so much planning. And at a certain point, I have to wonder if it's really benefitting me anymore. Is it really fine for WDW just because it's bigger? It's not as if the rest of the world's theme parks are inherently inferior places that have nothing going for them whatsoever.

Do they though?

Most people I know put literally zero thought into going to theme parks. The idea that they need to plan for a park at all is a foreign concept. For most people it's basically this: Parks have rides. Rides are fun. I want to go on rides. Sounds like a fun day! This is not to demean those people-plenty of them are quite intelligent when it comes to other things in life. But I've yet to meet someone who has ever deduced for themselves that they should think about planning a park visit, anywhere. I've always had to tell them. People *know* I know a lot about the parks, but I am seldom asked for advice. Why? It simply never occurs to them that they would need to ask advice to do something as seemingly simple as going to a theme park.

This is where most people are. They assume, rightly or wrongly, they should have a reasonable expectation of entering a park and being able to do everything they want to do. Especially since that's still basically possible at, say, Disneyland and Universal Orlando unless they're coming during a crazy holiday period.

And this site isn't really that representative of the general populace's take on this issue. Maybe I'm not looking in the right forums, but I see very few people in here trying to make sense of their first trip ever. Most people on forums like these are veterans who have done this time and time again, know the system, know the tricks. That's NOT generally going to be the view of someone trying to make sense of this as a first timer.

Should people use the resources they have to make more informed decisions and plan for their trips? Absolutely. Is all of this as necessary as many people here think or as coherent to a first timer as people assume? I'd say no.

Well, inferior or superior is subjective and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, however, WDW is not similar to any other theme park and WDW is far superior. Also, WDW has more visitors than any other similar type place, so maybe that’s why they need the extra planning that less crowded places don’t need. Anyway, I like it just how it is because I always prefer a situation where some research, preparation and relatively hard work can give someone an advantage.

 

[mergatroid]

I think the person you quoted already answered that. They already said, "a shorter booking window puts everyone on more equal footing."

Are you familiar with WDW's Bounceback offers? I've booked that offer many times. As in, my return trip is already booked well before most folks can even see room prices for the next calendar year.

But I also think sometimes it is fun to be on equal footing with everyone else.

People wanting an equal footing should be demanding no reservations at all. Every restaurant just says turn up on the day and if we're full when you turn up then you wait or go elsewhere. Even if Disney allowed reservations only 24 hours in advance it wouldn't put people on an equal footing as prior knowledge of this wouldn't be known by everyone. The 'fairest way' would be no reservation system whatsoever as only then would everyone be on an equal footing. 'More equal footing' would still favour some, to varying degrees.

Personally I prefer the advance reservations as they offer peace of mind knowing you can visit that restaurant with a table for you. I prefer 180 days to 60 days as even pre covid the 180 days made it easier getting specific times. Whilst it can be argued unfair, you could also argue it rewards those who are regular guests or those who work that little bit harder to plan ahead. I'd hazard a guess that most who book 180 days ahead aren't first timers, but rather repeat visitors who've learned from experience how the system works.

If true it's kind of allowing previous visitors or those who plan an advantage, so I get that some see that as unfair. However any system other than no reservations can have that leveled at them, it's just to what degree it's unfair from that point. True equality would therefore be scrap all reservations and have a free for all, I just think that many would hate that idea if it were brought in. Anything else favours people with previous knowledge or nous, whichever way they go there'll be accusations of unfairness?