News Disney Confirms Muppets Take Over Rock 'n' Roller Coaster at Hollywood Studios

[JD80]

This forum needs a stat under their avatar saying the last time they were at WDW. I'm begining to believe half the people haven't been on property in 10 years but have strong opinions on new things.

(I'm being overly dramatic here, but I think my point stands.)

 

[denyuntilcaught]

idk how "help the superheroes save the world" is being read as difficult to understand

That's a reductive argument.

Cosmic Rewind feels like a pretty standard Marvel plot. I just fundamentally don’t think the slightly more complex story takes away from the attraction.

The flaw with this thinking is that a standard Marvel plot that works for film or television shouldn't be adapted literally for an attraction. Different mediums require different approaches to storytelling.

It's funny the lengths people will go to research and listen to Imagineers talk about rides they really like so they understand everything about it and all the lore...

...and then the lengths people will go to ignore all details laid out in front of their faces during a whole queue, two preshows and also onboard ride audio and screens, to "not" understand a ride.

Except this debate isn't centering on the fandom, it's centering on the general public who, again, isn't interested in jumping through the convoluted hoops to understand why the Guardians are in EPCOT.

One of Sondheim's principles is "Less is More." A great example of lateral thinking that Imagineering could benefit from.

 

[JackCH]

That's a reductive argument.


The flaw with this thinking is that a standard Marvel plot that works for film or television shouldn't be adapted literally for an attraction. Different mediums require different approaches to storytelling.


Except this debate isn't centering on the fandom, it's centering on the general public who, again, isn't interested in jumping through the convoluted hoops to understand why the Guardians are in EPCOT.

One of Sondheim's principles is "Less is More." A great example of lateral thinking that Imagineering could benefit from.

1. I don't think so. The point is the story is actually simple, with layers that you can follow if you want. Much like some other attractions.

2. Same could be said for Harry Potter, no one complains about that.

3. If we are talking general public and not fandom, this is one of the most popular rides in Orlando and is a lot of people's favorite attraction. The "fandom" are the ones judging this as a non-masterpiece compared to something like BTMR... which I think take a poll of the general public Cosmic Rewind wins in a landslide.

 

[phillip9698]

It’s absolutely on the Imagineers. A dark ride goes at a pace where you can take in a story, a coaster doesn’t. It took me three rides on Guardians before I understood what the story was supposed to be, and apparently I still didn’t get it if the explanation posted earlier is accurate. Guardians fails twice over in that nothing gets followed after the launch and so much time is spent setting up a story prior to that that is basically wasted. It’s a story that doesn’t climax for most people and it ends with you being dumped into blank empty hallways. The 1% of park guests who understand why probably all learned from social media.

You could ride the Haunted Mansion 50 times and not grasp the story that Disney fans will tell you is included. Honestly most people don’t even know there is a story to be told in there.

 

[Basil of Baker Street]

That's a reductive argument.


The flaw with this thinking is that a standard Marvel plot that works for film or television shouldn't be adapted literally for an attraction. Different mediums require different approaches to storytelling.


Except this debate isn't centering on the fandom, it's centering on the general public who, again, isn't interested in jumping through the convoluted hoops to understand why the Guardians are in EPCOT.

One of Sondheim's principles is "Less is More." A great example of lateral thinking that Imagineering could benefit from.

I would wager the general public isn't interested in a story at all.

 

[Jrb1979]

You could ride the Haunted Mansion 50 times and not grasp the story that Disney fans will tell you is included. Honestly most people don’t even know there is a story to be told in there.

Agreed which is why there is no point in doing all these convoluted back stories like they did for Tiana

 

[HMF]

You could ride the Haunted Mansion 50 times and not grasp the story that Disney fans will tell you is included. Honestly most people don’t even know there is a story to be told in there.

There is no story to the Haunted Mansion. It is a series of experiences building to a climax.

The Myth of Story

The entertainment industry seems a slippery business to Wall Street. It’s difficult to explain in words why one entertainment property succe...

imagineerebirth.blogspot.com

 

[ToTBellHop]

Agreed which is why there is no point in doing all these convoluted back stories like they did for Tiana

The irony there is TBA replaced a ride with a complex story and that a big complaint about TBA is its thin story.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

I would wager the general public isn't interested in a story at all.

I would disagree, but then again I think it'd open up a debate over what constitutes a story vs. plot vs. scenario.

1. I don't think so. The point is the story is actually simple, with layers that you can follow if you want. Much like some other attractions.

Interesting way of looking at it from an audience POV, but not from what Imagineering clearly intended, which is where the conversation originated - a trend of needlessly overly-complicated stories.

2. Same could be said for Harry Potter, no one complains about that.

Fair, but also this forum skews Disney, so...

 

[BrianLo]

I’m not really sure what Hagrid’s has to do with your point. Cosmic Rewind cost half a billion dollars. It’s one of the most expensive attraction ever built. That was known up front and it doesn’t show.

Sorry, I misread the flow of the conversation as ‘Hagrid did the story coaster first’ for some reason as the criticism. Not one of cost.

 

[BrianLo]

This forum needs a stat under their avatar saying the last time they were at WDW. I'm begining to believe half the people haven't been on property in 10 years but have strong opinions on new things.

(I'm being overly dramatic here, but I think my point stands.)

Sometimes it is the complete opposite problem. More having to do with burnout and not owning up to the 3-4x annual visits (for decades) due to unwillingness to divest from DVC… it’s easy to pretend to be enlightened and defer the fact that your own bad relationship with the parks had to do with your own original over-consumption and difficulty moderating earlier.

 

[WondersOfLife]

The irony there is TBA replaced a ride with a complex story and that a big complaint about TBA is its thin story.

When the backstory is more complicated than the actual rides story. Lol

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

This forum needs a stat under their avatar saying the last time they were at WDW. I'm begining to believe half the people haven't been on property in 10 years but have strong opinions on new things.

(I'm being overly dramatic here, but I think my point stands.)

check the profile?

 

[JD80]

Sometimes it is the complete opposite problem. More having to do with burnout and not owning up to the 3-4x annual visits (for decades) due to unwillingness to divest from DVC… it’s easy to pretend to be enlightened and defer the fact that your own bad relationship with the parks had to do with your own original over-consumption and difficulty moderating earlier.

Sure. Context and perspective is always important.

 

[TheRealSkull]

I would wager the general public isn't interested in a story at all.

I disagree. It's what sets Disney apart from what isn't popular, I.E Six Flags, people who go to get tossed and thrown around.

 

[JEANYLASER]

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

You could ride the Haunted Mansion 50 times and not grasp the story that Disney fans will tell you is included. Honestly most people don’t even know there is a story to be told in there.

There is no story to the Haunted Mansion. It is a series of experiences building to a climax.

The Myth of Story

The entertainment industry seems a slippery business to Wall Street. It’s difficult to explain in words why one entertainment property succe...

imagineerebirth.blogspot.com

What about the storyline of Phantom Manor? And they even changed it when they had the big recent refurb..

 

[Nickm2022]

I disagree. It's what sets Disney apart from what isn't popular, I.E Six Flags, people who go to get tossed and thrown around.

I agree AND I would add what also separates Disney from the others is that you could go to a Disney park, not do a single ride, and still have a great time because there's so much theming and immersion. As someone who regulars Cedar Point while a fun amusement park besides the rides there's nothing there. Universal (at least the main park) I am constantly reminded of lack of coherent theming and layout. meanwhile even if you wanna complain about the IP choices and stuff the actual theming of these areas including TBA is still top tier, especially when compared to recent Univ attractions like VilliansCon and Jimmy Fallon.

Id also say with RnRC Muppets plus newer hits is a easy win in a park that needs easy wins as they work on bigger stuff

 

[HMF]

What about the storyline of Phantom Manor? And they even changed it when they had the big recent refurb..

Phantom Manor was created under the Eisner "Story" edict.

 

[phillip9698]

The irony there is TBA replaced a ride with a complex story and that a big complaint about TBA is its thin story.

For the overwhelming majority of people the story in Splash was: Rabbit is chased by Bear and Fox then Rabbit gets away by jumping in a briar patch. That it, and it’s not complex.

Too much weight is given to the opinions of super fans.