Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[Zac Skellington]

The "What's in it for me?" people need to try and see the big picture.

IF you're going to quote me(my son), get the quote right.
What he was actually getting at, was that the former attraction appealed to both boys AND girls of all ages. The frozen ride could, we'll see. Princess M&G, No. No way.

 

[Zac Skellington]

Hah, I kept up with this thread until about 150ish pages and gave up because it was the same thing over and over. My apologies for contributing to the redundancy of this thread.

Lol, Classic.

 

[DisDan]

IF you're going to quote me(my son), get the quote right.
What he was actually getting at, was that the former attraction appealed to both boys AND girls of all ages. The frozen ride could, we'll see. Princess M&G, No. No way.

Ohh I was not quoting you at all, that statement just describes the attitude a lot of people have towards this project.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Ohh I was not quoting you at all, that statement just describes the attitude a lot of people have towards this project.

Hatred and disgust?

 

[aladdin2007]

Plus the fact that these expansion pads have existed since the park's construction in '82 and Norway was basically the only use of one of the expansion spots (I don't count Morocco which was not present on opening day, but '84).
So, at the rate they are going, 1 expansion slot used in '88, the next in 2015(2016?), I think we're set for quite a bit of time on expansion slots.

Actually dont forget world showplace between UK and Canada, thats also an original expansion pad. But that too, someday, if need be, though no need during any of our lifetimes, it can be repurposed for a new pavilion. If the day ever does come that a real new pavilion is added I would look over next to Germany or between France and Morocco.

 

[aladdin2007]

The "What's in it for me?" people need to try and see the big picture. Almost everyone on here complains about the Frozen changes coming to Epcot. But really I haven't heard a single plausible alternative to get a Frozen attraction into WDW while taking all current plans (rumors) into consideration. I am not trying to defend Disney here, I have no reason to, I am a longtime WDW visitor myself having first gone when I was 5 years old back in 1983. We used to take family trips to Disney every couple of years, since we only lived 4 hours away.

Anyhow, as I already said once in this thread, I am trying to see things from Disney's perspective and considering as many factors as I can think of, this is really the only reasonable option to do a Frozen attraction RIGHT NOW!. I think much like Toy Story or Little Mermaid there might be an opportunity (down the road) for a much larger presence of Frozen in WDW at another park (MK?) depending on how the franchise does over time. But for right now, this is it.. IMO.

Also, we are all just speculating about what this attraction will look like, if done well it could still honor the theme of Norway and provide an up close look at some aspects of Norwegian culture while still providing entertainment though the characters and story of Frozen.

It could, we just dont know yet. After seeing what they did with the stuff at DCA and the design and posters used in the queue showcasing the fjords, vikings, etc etc,,,I have a little ounce of hope this is the direction they take hopefully. Or in some other way honor Norway in their design and theming.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Actually dont forget world showplace between UK and Canada, thats also an original expansion pad. But that too, someday, if need be, though no need during any of our lifetimes, it can be repurposed for a new pavilion. If the day ever does come that a real new pavilion is added I would look over next to Germany or between France and Morocco.

Expansion pad #2 is also currently out since they refuel the fire barge and reload the fireworks at the service docks in the canal.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

A friend of mine recently gave me a copy of Marty Sklar's Dream it! Do it! She said that Sklar outlines how EPCOT's challenges long preceded its opening and, specifically, World Showcase would be a difficult enterprise to support and maintain. Moreover, she said that if you truly take the time to read between the lines, the characterization was inevitable.

Like many on this board, I just do not understand the current storytelling at EPCOT and often wonder how many executives can articulate it. To me, the park is fraught with contradictions. A Frozen meet and greet will now be adjacent to Mexico's margarita stand. Instead of nurturing cultural awareness, there is a Canadian Lumberjack show that perpetuates Canadian stereotypes. Circle of Life promotes environmentalism and Living With the Land educates on agricultural biotechnology, but Soarin' simply exposes one to California's terrains. The viewing areas of The Seas have the potential to nurture an understanding of sea life, but it is preceded by Nemo getting lost again; no sea animals are identified by name. Original pavilion logos come back in some locations, but are not used consistently throughout the park.

As I have gotten older, I have realized that EPCOT is not a place were Dreams Come True, but, rather, a place were dreams never came to full fruition. Science, technology and cultural awareness have been leaving EPCOT for years. With the Frozen takeover of Norway, Magic Kingdomification is more evident.

I consider myself to be an EPCOT loyalist and would much prefer to see the park permanently close its gates than to continue in this direction of operation.

 

[sshindel]

The "What's in it for me?" people need to try and see the big picture.

I don't fall into the Whats in it for Me crowd. I have 2 daughters, one of which still loves Frozen (the other sick of it for 8 months). The Meet and Greet have something for me, because even as sick of it as my oldest is, she still enjoyed meeting Anna and Elsa.

You mention that there is no other place RIGHT NOW to build something Frozen that makes more sense. There are tons of places! There are places in the Magic Kingdom that could be utilized. If they announced Fantasyland Expansion 2.0, building an entire Frozen section on, it would be huge news, and well received.
Or, DHS just shut down half the park! Part of the re-do could take advantage of that space. MK is best, DHS would be second IMO. Still, either of those are better choices than Epcot.

I think much like Toy Story or Little Mermaid there might be an opportunity (down the road) for a much larger presence of Frozen in WDW at another park (MK?) depending on how the franchise does over time.

Given that they are trashing an entire World Showcase pavilion to add Frozen, they better not add some sort of "larger" presence down the road. That's the thing here. This is it. They are not taking the time to do this "right". They are doing this "right now" by giving us a rebuilt attraction and a meet and greet, and they are killing the World Showcase to do it. If we think that Frozen is something that can't sustain a major investment worth a multi-year project, and we have to strike now while the iron is hot, then I'd argue that we shouldn't be making attractions around it at all.

Still, it's all a rehash of the other 250 pages of this thread. We have what we have. Norway is dead. World Showcase has been ripped of it's purpose. All I can hope for now is that at the very least, the facade of the new building will be a thematic match to the actual country of Norway, matching up with the rest of the Norway pavilion. I fear that we're going to be getting a tiny forced perspective ice castle on top of the building like we have Beast's castle, removing any hint of actual Norwegian ties.

At least the Margarita Kiosk sitting directly across from the entrance to Frozen-M&G fits. I mean, what is more Norwegian than Margaritas:

Of course, they'll just start selling specialty Frozen Margaritas in Olaf cups and call it a day. Get it. Frozen Margaritas!!!

 

[aladdin2007]

Expansion pad #2 is also currently out since they refuel the fire barge and reload the fireworks at the service docks in the canal.

actually that is only connected to the pad along the side and around the back, not in it. If your referring to the two big ones next to Germany. For those who dont know, theres two there together, and then one between Ger and It.

 

[sshindel]

Like many on this board, I just do not understand the current storytelling at EPCOT and often wonder how many executives can articulate it.

That is because they don't have current storytelling. They don't care about the original mission of EPCOT. They just care that people can find their way to their festivals to spend their money. I'm looking forward to the day when they start to bulldoze all of Future World so they can put more kiosks up.

 

[flynnibus]

Here's my take on the M&G vs ride debate. If you had asked me 15 years ago when I was finishing up college and not yet married, I would have agreed with you

I'm glad you expanded your views like that... but I already have three grown children so I can assure you I've already crossed that bridge and my comment isn't about a selfish 'what matters to me' view of the parks. My comment strikes on two chords..

1) the jab about 'cheap' since its an overlay vs something new... yet it's still just a decorated M&G
2) The shift in balance and focus to more and more character interactions vs attractions worthy of being promoted as world class

M&G's are just a different type of attraction and diversion from reality, like the other side of coin from rides. They have their place in a well-balanced mix of attractions

'in a well balanced mix' - that's the key. We seem to be getting more M&G additions than actual experiences or rides. Imagine if instead of the American Adventure we got 'M&G with ben franklin'... that seems to be Disney's idea of entertainment investment these days.

Even as a father of three girls... I don't want a Disney World that is 50% M&Gs... no matter how elaborate they are.

 

[DisDan]

I don't fall into the Whats in it for Me crowd. I have 2 daughters, one of which still loves Frozen (the other sick of it for 8 months). The Meet and Greet have something for me, because even as sick of it as my oldest is, she still enjoyed meeting Anna and Elsa.

You mention that there is no other place RIGHT NOW to build something Frozen that makes more sense. There are tons of places! There are places in the Magic Kingdom that could be utilized. If they announced Fantasyland Expansion 2.0, building an entire Frozen section on, it would be huge news, and well received.
Or, DHS just shut down half the park! Part of the re-do could take advantage of that space. MK is best, DHS would be second IMO. Still, either of those are better choices than Epcot.



Given that they are trashing an entire World Showcase pavilion to add Frozen, they better not add some sort of "larger" presence down the road. That's the thing here. This is it. They are not taking the time to do this "right". They are doing this "right now" by giving us a rebuilt attraction and a meet and greet, and they are killing the World Showcase to do it. If we think that Frozen is something that can't sustain a major investment worth a multi-year project, and we have to strike now while the iron is hot, then I'd argue that we shouldn't be making attractions around it at all.

Still, it's all a rehash of the other 250 pages of this thread. We have what we have. Norway is dead. World Showcase has been ripped of it's purpose. All I can hope for now is that at the very least, the facade of the new building will be a thematic match to the actual country of Norway, matching up with the rest of the Norway pavilion. I fear that we're going to be getting a tiny forced perspective ice castle on top of the building like we have Beast's castle, removing any hint of actual Norwegian ties.

At least the Margarita Kiosk sitting directly across from the entrance to Frozen-M&G fits. I mean, what is more Norwegian than Margaritas:
View attachment 79440

Of course, they'll just start selling specialty Frozen Margaritas in Olaf cups and call it a day. Get it. Frozen Margaritas!!!

To my original point, there are already issues with the crowds at MK relative to the other 3 parks. Adding a Frozen attraction/land to MK would only further exacerbate that problem . DHS already has SW and Pixar IP's incoming, not sure how they fit Frozen there. EPCOT needs something now and this just happened to be the perfect storm of events leading to Frozen in the Norway pavilion.

 

[sshindel]

Say what you will, but Norway is not dead. There are still talks taking place for support and Norwegian content.

I do hope so. I'm not sure where it would go. The Stave Church? I don't see them giving back a square foot of merchandise space. The bakery will still exist. The pavilion will be a giant Frozen Meet and Greet, a Frozen ride, a princess buffet, then a small shopping area, the Stave Church, and the bakery.

 

[sshindel]

To my original point, there are already issues with the crowds at MK relative to the other 3 parks. Adding a Frozen attraction/land to MK would only further exacerbate that problem . DHS already has SW and Pixar IP's incoming, not sure how they fit Frozen there. EPCOT needs something now and this just happened to be the perfect storm of events leading to Frozen in the Norway pavilion.

Just because MK has capacity differences with other parks does not make it ok to shoehorn an attraction in somewhere it doesn't belong. And if this Frozen expansion was done right, on Disney construction timelines, it wouldn't be done for 5+ years. By that time, DAK will have opened it's expansion, DHS hopefully will be rebuilt. Two major changes to help that crowd-spreading problem.

And the plans for DHS are not public yet. In fact, they seem to be changing for most of the previous year. Frozen could have been worked into the plans at any point last year.

 

[Phicinfan]

I guess I am too open minded. I am a huge disney fan, and have spent the last 6 years visiting Disney world.

That being said, Epcot is my least favorite. Why? Lack of changes.

For those here who are purists I get it, I understand the frustration of change for change sake, and the loss of the main theme for which WS was developed. That being said, I hope you don't lose the fact that Disney in and of itself is a world of fantasy. Meant to be a way to get away from what is, and focus on what could be.

Deep in my heart, I am hoping beyond hope, that this is a trend. What trend? A tie in to what IS Disney to what IS the real world.

My point: Norway was not the whole model for Arendell for Frozen. But it is a close match. So could this be the plan....take an existing foriegn land, and find the tie in with a fantasy movie that is close? I hope so.

I hope that way we see maybe in the future:
England - and an attraction to Peter pan or Mary Poppins...OH WAIT - isn't there a Mary Poppins M&G now?? Hmmm..

China and Mulan would be great to have some type of tie in
Canada and Brother bear??
American Pavilion - oh heck we could choose many, but a classic like lady and the Tramp?

My point is, they need to update this, and do it in Disney style. Make the tie in so you SEE what the real world is like and other cultures, but also tie in some fantasy items like what Disney films tie in.

I know this is not a popular idea, and there are many purists who will frown on this. But I think this would be a great way to revitalize a lagging park, and bring even more younger families in.

then my hopes are the Baymax tie in with Innovations rumors are true, as that would be a great tie in and fit as well.

 

[Wikkler]

I'm looking forward to Test Track, presented by Mater, then.

 

[FutureCEO]

I would enjoy a Frozen ride in place of the Big Top hat which is a huge store.

 

[Wikkler]

That was sarcasm.

 

[Phicinfan]

I'm looking forward to Test Track, presented by Mater, then.

No, Lightning McQueen, or Rusteez But you've got the spirit!