Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[AEfx]

Problem is Frozen's a bastardized Disney Princess marketing oriented (Because why else would it be two princesses who have trouble connecting instead of a young non-royal girl going out to save a boy) version of the Snow Queen that has barely anything to do with the original material.
That's a bit far removed from Scandinavian culture.

Let's face it, though - they invented the term "Disneyfied" for a reason.

I brought up the original story because I've seen numerous folks say that Marry Poppins was OK in England because the story was from England, etc. but that this didn't make sense because HCA was Danish.

That said, there are numerous articles out there that detail all the Norwegian/Scandinavian connections/landmarks/objects/references in the film. Stave churches, viking ships, trolls...

In any case, while I think Frozen fits in just fine in Norway, I do wish they would have gone full-hog and built a larger ride with better capacity. Those lines are going to reach SSE, LOL...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

But it wasn't real...it never happened. It was PR - thinly based, and nebulous, at that.

I love ya, but when stuff like this is said it's like, "What are you talking about?" LOL.

These broad, esoteric, nebulous ideas of something...more. That folks can't quantify because it was a feeling they got, basing this feeling from a promotional video that Walt Disney made two decades earlier that had absolutely nothing to do with the theme park that was built in 1982 aside from a name.

There was not some grand plan of cultural philanthropy, or altruistic reason it was built - it was a theme park built to get more guests to come to WDW by adding another gate. Do you really think that in 1982 the WDC was just dumping money into a theme park for the good of mankind or "celebration of cultural achievement"? Or that they brought in all these corporate sponsors for anything but the financial benefit? Walt Disney himself wasn't ashamed of getting corporate sponsors to help finance projects - so why do we ascribe this lofty ideal of there was suddenly more to it after he was long dead?

EPCOT Center was a product of the WDC going..."Well, we are ready to add a second gate to WDW. What are we going to theme it as?" They looked at what Walt Disney left - and took the nebulous idea of a futuristic city, and as we know, literally took two different proposal models (one of that, and one of a WS-like park) and placed them together on a table and said "You know, that would work!"

It's like battling about religion - it comes down to "faith" - "belief" that there is no true, empirical evidence of. And over the past 35 years people have built it up into exactly that - because no one can talk about it without making broad, unprovable strokes of something that is almost entirely based on a "feeling" or extremely broad, pithy statements of purpose that never really were more than PR copy to begin with.

That's the only "proof" anyone has of anything - things like a dedication plaque (a few dozen words crafted by marketers to evoke a feeling), an ancient video from Walt Disney about an entirely different project, that the company capitalized upon to lengthen the appearance of his influence at a time when it was still finding it's identity after his death, and...that's really it.

PR wasn't invented post-1982. It already existed. We were just young enough to not to see it for what it was and were wow'd by some great attractions. At the same time, the WDC has spent far less in developing it's parks since about a decade into EPCOT Center (when it turned into Epcot) - and people have put these two together in their minds as inexorably linked together into this utopia of theme parks.

Honestly - if they had continued to spend lavishly on the parks - I think we'd be having these same discussions because no matter if they were building or not, the nebulous theme simply wasn't sustainable because EPCOT was never some research center devoted to the human condition - it always was a theme park, there to get guests to come and spend money.

You are incredibly wrong on this point. Yes, it was and is a commercial endeavor, but it was not, and even as misguided as it is today, is not a shallow and crass cash grab. The galleries still have touring exhibits. The Pavilions still have real goods and staff from the respective countries. And intellectually, the pavilions have the weight of human history as the base.

Frozen does not.

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier in this or other frozen posts.
I think that since they are going to do this frozen ride thing. a great re-use of the troll that sends you back. back. back. over the falls. Would be to put marshmallow there. He could do his roar and raise his arm like he is hitting you, this could throw you back down the falls in the same manner.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Except they're not in the Disney Princess line-up.

They're just postponing the coronation for as long as they can sell the merch independently. Rapunzel and Merida were brought in when their respective release window wells dried up after all.

 

[AEfx]

They're just postponing the coronation for as long as they can sell the merch independently. Rapunzel and Merida were brought in when their respective release window wells dried up after all.

Wait, that's actually a thing? I kind of thought folks were joking, I didn't realize it was so official, haha.



Let's hope it's less eventful than Princess Leia's.

 

[Bocabear]

Problem is Frozen's a bastardized Disney Princess marketing oriented (Because why else would it be two princesses who have trouble connecting instead of a young non-royal girl going out to save a boy) version of the Snow Queen that has barely anything to do with the original material.
That's a bit far removed from Scandinavian culture.

The only thing that Frozen has in common with the Hans Christian Anderson Snow Queen is that there is a girl in it, there is a boy, and it is cold....that's about it. Kind of like saying Pirates of the Caribbean was written by Hans Christian Anderson because there is a mermaid and a boat in the story.

 

[Bartattack]

I think that since they are going to do this frozen ride thing. a great re-use of the troll that sends you back. back. back. over the falls. Would be to put marshmallow there. He could do his roar and raise his arm like he is hitting you, this could throw you back down the falls in the same manner.

I predict a future thread called "Fix the Marshmallow!" or "Disco Marshmallow!"

 

[Monorail_Red_77]

I predict a future thread called "Fix the Marshmallow!" or "Disco Marshmallow!"

One fix could be marshmallow s'mores. They'll just add some ember smell from SSE and a few flame light fans to make it look like he is being melted. Thus no movement needed. Like a disco 2.0.....

 

[Mike S]

Not sure if it has been mentioned earlier in this or other frozen posts.
I think that since they are going to do this frozen ride thing. a great re-use of the troll that sends you back. back. back. over the falls. Would be to put marshmallow there. He could do his roar and raise his arm like he is hitting you, this could throw you back down the falls in the same manner.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

Already confirmed what that scene will be.

 

[Cesar R M]

My position on Gran Fiesta is that really, the original El Rio Del Tiempo and the third act of the Three Caballeros film were functionally the same thing: A surreal travelogue through Mexico with a Mary Blair-inspired holiday interlude (Los Posadas in the movie, and Dias de los Muertos in the ride which is one of the things that's intact from the overlay).

Gran Fiesta continues being a Mexican travelogue with the trio, even with its less then inspired "Donald's lost" plot.
That said, I'm curious to see how Pixar's Dias de los Muertos film turns out or how it stacks up to Book of Life.

the attraction is still badly done. It hardly explains traditions or what they are seeing.
Then they just plaster donald not having an idea of where he is.. then Panchito and Jose Carioca running around.

I would have preferred to see Panchito explaining Jose and Donald each area of Mexico and the meaning of each cultural aspect.

 

[Cesar R M]

careful, or someone might claim you're just asking for attention for using image macros to express yourself( between other things)

 

[Cesar R M]

True, but one of the "waves" of criticism about the location (as soon as one is debunked, like a Jedi - there was...another) was "Arendelle is FICTIONAL, are you an idiot?" in saying that it was a preposterous notion for it to be in Norway. Yet...the public sure thinks so, and the filmmakers (unless they are lying?) have described in great length how yes, it's a fictional kingdom but there are countless connections and models based on Norway and historic Norwegian locations.

And then you have people who don't understand Norwegian history, who make such pithy sound bites as "It's a fictional kingdom based on a story by a Danish guy" and don't realize that actually, when Hans Christen Andersen was born, Denmark and Norway were united (as Denmark-Norway) - as was Norway and Sweden later when "The Snow Queen" was written. These countries are inexorably linked and functioned more like states than independent countries culturally and shifted several times during his lifetime. Norway wasn't independent until the early 1900's, thirty years after Hans Christen Anderson was dead. Certainly long after the trolls and Scandinavian gods...

Thematically, it's as appropriate as Maelstrom was - a fantasy ride based with roots in Scandinavian folklore/stories, it's just that...characters...ew....because somewhere hidden in Epcot is a stone tablet that says "Characters do not belong here!" that Disney has been violating in one way or another since the 1980's.

Finally, we've arrived at the consensus that the issue is really capacity - but it took a long time before we got there and folks finally had something solid to complain about.

I still wonder why the hell they just gut the name "Norway Pavilion" and put "Scandinavian Pavilion".
Expand it to add other nations nearby, including Norway.. and then Frozen MIGHT sort of fit.
Because... Frozen is as related to Norway.... as me being A Canadian (because I travelled there, took photos and called it a vacation)

 

[FigmentJedi]

the attraction is still badly done. It hardly explains traditions or what they are seeing.
Then they just plaster donald not having an idea of where he is.. then Panchito and Jose Carioca running around.

I would have preferred to see Panchito explaining Jose and Donald each area of Mexico and the meaning of each cultural aspect.

El Rio del Tiempo's narration wasn't all that helpful with context either. You get some vague mentions of how advanced the Aztecs were, but the scenes were all interpretive dance versions of various Aztec legends. Then you get a little line about modern Mexico when you enter the Small World scene, but it gets washed out by the song and then he only comes back at the end.

Maelstrom was handled a lot better but it needed that narration more just to connect all the different elements together.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I still wonder why the hell they just gut the name "Norway Pavilion" and put "Scandinavian Pavilion".
Expand it to add other nations nearby, including Norway.. and then Frozen MIGHT sort of fit.
Because Frozen is as related to Norway as me being A Canadian (because I travelled there, took photos and called it a vacation)

No, the connections are much stronger. Including some Mexican stories and influences in a California themed area would not be a crazy stretch.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I agree with your first statement, but the second one...oh, Dinorama would like to have a word with you.

This is not to take away how bad Dinorama is, but all that is, is poor execution of theme. There are no capacity issues there. Now, factor in loss of life associated with it and it's a hard argument for Frozen.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't know about that. This tumor could be removed quickly in 10 years if necessary. It's just a cheap overlay. See Stitch's Great Escape. Or our current Figment ride.

Building Splash Mountain in its current location was a far larger creative mistake as both its setting and time are inappropriate for its placement and it's not going anywhere. But, we largely forgive it because it's a great ride.

Unfortunately, FEA is poorly placed and doesn't appear to be anything to write home about from what we've heard.

Your first paragraph makes no sense, "it could be removed in 10 years if necessary" and then you site two problem children that have not been removed after being problems for 10 years. The other two attractions also don't have the ridiculous capacity demands that we are all expecting on this.

Splash Mountain isn't a good thematic fit, but like other poor thematic fits (Soarin'), it's easier to forgive when the attraction is beloved. If Frozen is an excellent attraction it's going to have insufficient capacity to support it. The only scenario where it is a "success" is if it is a Stitch's Great Escape level of failure.

I don't see a scenario where this ends well, unless they can add at least 50% more capacity to the attraction.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Your first paragraph makes no sense, "it could be removed in 10 years if necessary" and then you site two problem children that have not been removed after being problems for 10 years. The other two attractions also don't have the ridiculous capacity demands that we are all expecting on this.

Splash Mountain isn't a good thematic fit, but like other poor thematic fits (Soarin'), it's easier to forgive when the attraction is beloved. If Frozen is an excellent attraction it's going to have insufficient capacity to support it. The only scenario where it is a "success" is if it is a Stitch's Great Escape level of failure.

I don't see a scenario where this ends well, unless they can add at least 50% more capacity to the attraction.

The fact that Stitch and Figment remain does not negate the fact that they are cheap overlays that could easily be removed.

The plan to aid with capacity is to serve alcohol in Wandering Oaken's to encourage lap sitting among strangers. They will roll out Disney-exclusive Bud Light Snow (thus Iger and the BoD will be staying at BoardWalk Inn this week to sample the new brew).

 

[jt04]

Pandora was responded twice with heavy hitters (Harry Potter lands) .. and Disney still hasnt opened Pandora.. go figure!

You don't create floating islands overnight.

 

[Cesar R M]

No, the connections are much stronger. Including some Mexican stories and influences in a California themed area would not be a crazy stretch.

wait wait.. what?
I dont get your comment.

 

[Cesar R M]

The fact that Stitch and Figment remain does not negate the fact that they are cheap overlays that could easily be removed.

The plan to aid with capacity is to serve alcohol in Wandering Oaken's to encourage lap sitting among strangers. They will roll out Disney-exclusive Bud Light Snow (thus Iger and the BoD will be staying at BoardWalk Inn this week to sample the new brew).

I dont think that animatronic of Stitch was cheap....