Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[Mike S]

Folks, Disney is a business.

It doesn't excuse anything. EPCOT Center actually had higher attendance than today's Epcot at one point. What does that tell you?

 

[Gomer]

Interesting little anecdote form my trip last week that I thought would fit here.

I’m on the bus heading to Magic Kingdom for our last day and I have this conversation with my 4 year old.

Son: Where are we going?
Me: Magic Kingdom
Son: When do we go back to Epcot?
Me: We’ll go there next time. We have to fly home tomorrow, but we’ll be back next year
Son: But Magic Kingdom is soooo boring, I want to go to Epcot.

(I was a very proud papa after that little exchange)

Anyway, the middle aged man with two young kids sitting across from us lets out a hearty chuckle at my son’s comments and then starts complaining to his wife “Well, I guess there is someone who likes that place. I wanted to shoot myself”

Case in point. Perhaps it’s not the kids who are the problem, but rather the parents. Parental behavior can drive a child’s interest far more than the latest pop culture phenomenon. If parents don’t encourage their children to enjoy more complex and educational experiences, then they will by default revert to interests of the lowest common denominator.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[wdisney9000]

Other than being an elitest snob, perhaps you can look at the big picture, I know, I doubt you can...but lets try anyway.

First and foremost, I have not seen ONE, not ONE person who says you have to eliminate the foriegn lands aspect altogether, but instead enhance it to make it more small children prefered.
Second, IF you have had or have small kids, and by this I am stating 10 and under, and they are really fascinated by learning about foreign lands....then good for you, my guess is they didn't get it from you though.

At some point, some of you "purists" who sit on your ivory towers and judge what TWDC should do or should not do without a modicum of business sense or understanding of the current market need to face reality. Reality is things change, WDW changes and HAS to change to be up to date and relevant. This is one minor way to appeal to the younger kids, and at the same time maintain the same features for those who are older. Win/win.

I am fascinated by how many poster IN this thread, and others who bemoan the fact Disney is not doing anything for the parks, and then when something is announced...pounce on it and do nothing but complain about what they have done. Really?

Folks, Disney is a business. ALL businesses change to what the majority audience or consumer wants. Yes, they have stepped away from what the original plan and hope was, but so has their consumer. Maybe you should pay attention to that.

All that rambling only to end it with the tired "Disney is a business" rebuttal. Call me names and belittle me if you have nothing intelligent to say besides defending TWDC's right to make a profit. It still doesnt change the fact that they are taking the cheapest route to offer what you call "change to be up to date and relevant". They know there are many who will defend any and all things they do simply because they love the Disney brand. I love that Frozen fans are getting an attraction, its just sad that so many (not all) are accepting such a lesser product than what the company is capable of and the fact that they accept it with thunderous applause will only enable more lack luster "changes to be up to date and relevant". Now, I must return to my tower...

 

[Phicinfan]

All that rambling only to end it with the tired "Disney is a business" rebuttal. Call me names and belittle me if you have nothing intelligent to say besides defending TWDC's right to make a profit. It still doesnt change the fact that they are taking the cheapest route to offer what you call "change to be up to date and relevant". They know there are many who will defend any and all things they do simply because they love the Disney brand. I love that Frozen fans are getting an attraction, its just sad that so many (not all) are accepting such a lesser product than what the company is capable of and the fact that they accept it with thunderous applause will only enable more lack luster "changes to be up to date and relevant". Now, I must return to my tower...

Please god do.

Perhaps the difference is not blind faith, but the hope for the better. Obviously you jaded experts know more....oh wait. No, you don't. It just gets ridiculously negative here, no one, or very few can look for the silver lining, just your craptastic expectations.

Famous saying if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Would be a much better place.

 

[Phicinfan]

It doesn't excuse anything. EPCOT Center actually had higher attendance than today's Epcot at one point. What does that tell you?

And you have data that states this change or recent lack of changes is the cause??? Awesome please share!

Since most of us believe it is due to cost of living increases, higher prices and maybe more current changes in other parks that may have driven that.

 

[MichWolv]

t doesn't excuse anything. EPCOT Center actually had higher attendance than today's Epcot at one point. What does that tell you?

As a single piece of information, it tells me nothing more than that less people go to Epcot today than at one point in the past.

What does it tell you?

 

[danlb_2000]

Please god do.

Perhaps the difference is not blind faith, but the hope for the better. Obviously you jaded experts know more....oh wait. No, you don't. It just gets ridiculously negative here, no one, or very few can look for the silver lining, just your craptastic expectations.

Famous saying if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Would be a much better place.

Because there isn't one. Our expectations are not "craptastic", they are based on the high standard that Disney set for themselves and have more and more failed to live up to.

 

[Phicinfan]

Because there isn't one. Our expectations are not "craptastic", they are based on the high standard that Disney set for themselves and have more and more failed to live up to.

In YOUR opinion. I would say due to $$ brought in majority disagree with you. Big surprise.

 

[Mike S]

All that rambling only to end it with the tired "Disney is a business" rebuttal. Call me names and belittle me if you have nothing intelligent to say besides defending TWDC's right to make a profit. It still doesnt change the fact that they are taking the cheapest route to offer what you call "change to be up to date and relevant". They know there are many who will defend any and all things they do simply because they love the Disney brand. I love that Frozen fans are getting an attraction, its just sad that so many (not all) are accepting such a lesser product than what the company is capable of and the fact that they accept it with thunderous applause will only enable more lack luster "changes to be up to date and relevant". Now, I must return to my tower...

It's even more dumbfounding when some people still accept it amid the heavy rumors about Tokyo. I really can't wait for the concept art on that one to say "look at the amazing work Disney is too cheap to build for American Frozen fans. Oh well, enjoy your 20 something year old ride with a new Frozen theme. Yay."

 

[wdisney9000]

Please god do.

Perhaps the difference is not blind faith, but the hope for the better. Obviously you jaded experts know more....oh wait. No, you don't. It just gets ridiculously negative here, no one, or very few can look for the silver lining, just your craptastic expectations.

Famous saying if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it. Would be a much better place.

ahhh, the old 'Disney is a business' cry, followed by the timeless 'complaining about the complainers'. This is a progression we have seen before and it is as useless now as it has been prior. If they were actually adding an attraction instead of simply reskinning one it would be a different story. But they are are not. Its like saying a 5 yard loss is better than a 10 yard loss. Technically it is, but neither is a true gain. In this case with Norway pavilion, its more of a lateral for 0 yards gained or lost. looking forward to your next post of name calling...

 

[wm49rs]

In YOUR opinion. I would say due to $$ brought in majority disagree with you. Big surprise.

And I say no one here actually speaks for the majority. And with all of that "big money" one would hope, even expect, that TWDC could do better than ravaging an existing pavilion at EP to give Anna & Elsa a proper space to call their own....

 

[Phicinfan]

ahhh, the old 'Disney is a business' cry, followed by the timeless 'complaining about the complainers'. This is a progression we have seen before and it is as useless now as it has been prior. If they were actually adding an attraction instead of simply reskinning one it would be a different story. But they are are not. Its like saying a 5 yard loss is better than a 10 yard loss. Technically it is, but neither is a true gain. In this case with Norway pavilion, its more of a lateral for 0 yards gained or lost. looking forward to your next post of name calling...

Please see my other response as to why what they are doing makes sense. With all the other expansion going on, this was the only move they could probably make fiscally to get traction in early, and also gain the benefit of draw for young folks in that area.

You can try and paint me in a corner if you like, but you just make yourself look more silly and petty.

 

[Phicinfan]

And I say no one here actually speaks for the majority. And with all of that "big money" one would hope, even expect, that TWDC could do better than ravaging an existing pavilion at EP to give Anna & Elsa a proper space to call their own....

Actually you are correct. In most cases, it is the whiney squeeky wheel who posts at sites like this. The one who always knows better than everyone else, and clings to the past. While the rest of us are out enjoying what they have done.

As to the latter, I actually agree there as well, I would have hoped that they would elevate the huge hit they had with Frozen and made a full attraction. My guess is due to haste and wanting some traction in Epcot they made this move. Agreed not optimal, but it isn't the huge death nell some here are posting it as.

 

[H2O_Mouse-Ears]

While I don't disagree, I would point out the following:
1) WDW just did a huge expansion in MK.
2) WDW is working currently to restage DTD
3) WDW has started a huge expansion and major changes in AK.
4) WDW has plans to expand, and thus has closed attractions in DHS to make room for these.

Now, does Epcot need love to...I could agree with most that it may need it more, although I prefer money spent in DHS first. That all being said, does anyone really expect WDW to suddenly start doing total rehab and rebuild of Epcot...while all the above is happened or happening?

Yes, this is a cash grab. yes this was a way to attract more young kids. It is also a lower cost way to get more new folks into Epcot, while the above is happening. Hopefully this isn't the only thing.

Agreed. I may be missing something here but don't really see what the issue is with this as long as the children enjoy it. If kids in general enjoy this new Frozen ride more than the existing Maelstrom ride, which I am sure they will, why not put a modest investment to have this set up. I have no problems with the current Maelstrom ride but it has been around for over 25 years and do not feel it is in any way an "amazing" ride that it cannot be changed. Kids will love it and I am certain it really cannot be that much worse than the current ride, so what is the big deal?

 

[wdisney9000]

With all the other expansion going on, this was the only move they could probably make fiscally to get traction in early

but does that make it right? Is that how any of the timeless attractions were created? All the nitpicking (from both of us) aside, please understand that I would only want a proper attraction in an appropriate area to be built. If that meant it took ten years, thats ok. There are so many things in all of WDW to draw in young kids. If your excited about a Frozen attraction, or any attraction, thats a good thing. But would you rather wait for something of a higher quality, or just take whatever they can afford, RIGHT NOW?

 

[Phicinfan]

but does that make it right? Is that how any of the timeless attractions were created? All the nitpicking (from both of us) aside, please understand that I would only want a proper attraction in an appropriate area to be built. If that meant it took ten years, thats ok. There are so many things in all of WDW to draw in young kids. If your excited about a Frozen attraction, or any attraction, thats a good thing. But would you rather wait for something of a higher quality, or just take whatever they can afford, RIGHT NOW?

But then there are many who are ripping Disney that it takes too long to react. That is why I am so frustrated. As stated by someone else in this or another thread, Disney is damned if they do, and damned if they do not.

I also think this is being looked at too short termed. As stated above, as long as the ride change is made well, and it draws well and works well, and helps kids get more interested in the park and WS it is a win/win. It also does not mean that sometime later, if the fad after movie two continues they can't do a more prominent attraction in a appropriate park later.


My concern is this. For better of for worse, most of TWDC draw right now is the movies. So are we saying all new attractions MUST got to DHS? I wouldn't mind it, as I love that park and would love to see it improved. But they are not going to do another huge expansion in MK, so where else does it fit?

 

[wm49rs]

Actually you are correct. In most cases, it is the whiney squeeky wheel who posts at sites like this. The one who always knows better than everyone else, and clings to the past. While the rest of us are out enjoying what they have done.

As to the latter, I actually agree there as well, I would have hoped that they would elevate the huge hit they had with Frozen and made a full attraction. My guess is due to haste and wanting some traction in Epcot they made this move. Agreed not optimal, but it isn't the huge death nell some here are posting it as.

It's a discussion forum, where individuals are discussing their opinions. If you don't care for their opines, you can either put them in ignore, or find another forum more suitable to your particular inclinations....

The desire to capitalize on this particular sector is the reason for the haste. And in the process they've decided to do away with any semblance to a real country save the architecture within. But, since TWDC is a business, I suppose it's a reasonable exchange, right?

 

[wdisney9000]

But then there are many who are ripping Disney that it takes too long to react. That is why I am so frustrated. As stated by someone else in this or another thread, Disney is damned if they do, and damned if they do not.

I also think this is being looked at too short termed. As stated above, as long as the ride change is made well, and it draws well and works well, and helps kids get more interested in the park and WS it is a win/win. It also does not mean that sometime later, if the fad after movie two continues they can't do a more prominent attraction in a appropriate park later.


My concern is this. For better of for worse, most of TWDC draw right now is the movies. So are we saying all new attractions MUST got to DHS? I wouldn't mind it, as I love that park and would love to see it improved. But they are not going to do another huge expansion in MK, so where else does it fit?

Again, does that make it right simply for a lack of proper placement being available right now? Or just because Maelstrom was old? Epcot is not MK. MK is not Epcot. Its the differences they have that make them unique. Blurring those lines will only hurt that effect in the long run. If making kids more interested is such a factor, then we should just have 4 MK parks. Kids would also be more interested in eating cookies for breakfast, or not going to school. that doesnt mean its the best option.

 

[wdisney9000]

Because there isn't one. Our expectations are not "craptastic", they are based on the high standard that Disney set for themselves and have more and more failed to live up to.

Such a big Ivory Tower you have there, Im jealous!!!! lol

 

[danlb_2000]

In YOUR opinion. I would say due to $$ brought in majority disagree with you. Big surprise.

You are under that mistaken impression that short term dollars always equals long term success. Disney did not get to where they are today by constantly going for the quick buck, they were in it for the long term. You only have to look at DCA 1.0 to see what happens when they just assume the public will buy whatever they slap their name on.