Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[Tom]

If you've ever had a kitchen remodeled or even just a sink fixed after a slow leak that caused even a minor amount of mold or rotten wood, you might also have seen what looked like this "mass demolition," but with the final product still looking like a kitchen and in more or less the same space, only with new fixtures, appliances, and cabinets, maybe even new tile or linoleum. Maybe even a wall torn out, to adjoin it to the breakfast nook, for a more open space. But still a kitchen. Still shoe horned into the existing outside structure and foot print.

So, depending on what you might call an "overlay," this may or may not qualify -- and it may not mean anything more that a remodel to an existing show building. A "mass destruction" would be more like what happened to Horizons -- tearing down the whole building and starting again.

This, so far, seems to be more like a re-model, using the existing building, than "starting from the ground up." Similar to "Extreme Makeover, Home Edition," when they do a nice remodel, versus some episodes where they completely tear down the whole building and build a whole new one.

Don't get me wrong. It may still be a nice ride (though still not appropriate for EPCOT -- because of World Showcase's mission), but it is still a kitchen, it seems. It is still a dark ride that appears to be shoehorned into the existing show building. May be OK, even nice. Maybe (or maybe not) "an overlay." But not "mass demolition'' either.

By day, I'm a commercial construction manager. I just finished a 2-year project wherein we gutted half of a hospital down to bare concrete and built-out completely new facilities in the shell spaces. It was considered a "remodel" only by Building Permit definition - but it was certainly "mass demolition" and a complete interior re-build. I stand by my assessment.

Well the budget we heard was $75 mil. Consider that it will be using the same ride system it's not going to be a cheap overlay. I would expect several Mine Train style animatronics and hopefully some halfway decent show scenes. I think if this ride was being put in Fantasyland we would all be thrilled.

If they're leaving the ride system, that saves a TON of money. They have the molds to produce the new boats back in Central Shops, so that's a minor cost, relatively speaking.

So, the $75M should go pretty far toward the mass demolition we're seeing, and re-building of all the sets. And when the "insiders" hear these budget numbers, who's to say they're not just hearing construction costs. The costs for AAs and ride systems may be tracked completely separately, or not included in the numbers that slip through loose lips.

I agree that it will likely be a very nice Fantasyland ride. Maybe it should replace Small World, and move Small World dolls to Norway and dress them all as trolls and frozen dolls.

 

[kpilcher]

So, just to confirm with what an imagineer told me, since he didn't act too "true" when I asked, the flume will be upgraded with an addition to the track, as well as a new lift hill and boats similar to those of Pirates, new queue will occupy the theatre and load unload will both be in the old fishing village. Feel Free to Corect me if I got anything wrong!

Well.... you've summed up the rumored common knowledge. Not much of it confirmed through credible sources -- though a chunk of this I've heard from people who should know at least outlines. The pirates boat bit I hadn't heard. It would make sense. there are two ways to add capacity: more scenes and wider boats. Both would be seemingly needed here. What do you mean he didn't "act too "true" ?" If it was lunch/dinner with an imagineer you can't expect he/she to exactly give away trade secrets with desert.

 

[DisDan]

We know the size of the flume, the size of the showbuilding and the design timeline. None of those can achieve a big expensive attraction.

Well there is a whole lot of GAP, in my opinion, between "Cheap Overlay" and "Big Expensive Attraction". Surely there is room in there for a decent Ride Refurb/Remodel which is more what this project seems like to me. Alas, we can keep speculating or just wait and see, time will tell.

 

[prberk]

By day, I'm a commercial construction manager. I just finished a 2-year project wherein we gutted half of a hospital down to bare concrete and built-out completely new facilities in the shell spaces. It was considered a "remodel" only by Building Permit definition - but it was certainly "mass demolition" and a complete interior re-build. I stand by my assessment.

Please understand, Tom, that I was not trying to disrespect you, and I thought I wrote enough to have a temperate tone. I just was responding to the "mass demolition" concept, in that to me it sounded like something that should imply more a complete demolition of the whole building than just something shoehorned into the existing building exterior, however elaborate. As I pointed out, "demolition" and "from the ground up" implied something more along the lines of what happened to Horizons, as they completely demo'd the building, and built Mission Space. It gave them a fresh start, and was not limiting in space so much.

It's a matter of semantics, I understand. And I definitely respect your opinions here.

As for the project itself, I just see this as too small and contrived a space for something that would be this wildly popular. And, of course, I agree with your other statement that this belongs in Fantasyland, not in World Showcase.

I actually think that they should refresh World Showcase from time to time, and even add or change countries maybe. But most of all, have it fluorish. It is actually a gem of an asset. Just remember the efforts made that got it done in the first place. Remember that having China as a participant at that time even took an act of Congress, since we had rules against trade with China in place then. And there is so much more to say about the brilliance of World Showcase, that would be undermined by mixing the genuine wonders and authentic cultural elements of World Showcase with this cartoon (however fun or nice it is). So, I still have that reservation overall.

But my argument about the "mass demolition" was separate from this. I just don't see how something this popular can be properly shoehorned into that space effectively, whether it belongs there or not.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Well, its cheap if you compared other awful overlays. Fine example is SUPERSTAR LIMO into the crappy Monsters Inc ride. (the animatronics barely move)

They barely moved in Superstar Limo too. They were bad animatronics to begin with.

 

[MarkTwain]

I'm not sure why it's any better that Diz is really gutting the ride instead of just, say, putting Marshmallow and Olaf where the polar bears used to be. The whole concept still sucks.

Agreed. Investing more heavily into a terrible concept doesn't make the concept any better. If anything, it just makes the changes that much more permanent.

 

[Disney Analyst]

As far as I know, the attractions will consist of A-1 animatronics, and no track changes.

 

[Prince Thomas]

Can't wait for this ride!!! No matter where it is or whatever...CANT WAIT FOR FROZEN RIDE!!!!

 

[Cesar R M]

As far as I know, the attractions will consist of A-1 animatronics, and no track changes.

Any examples of other A1 type animatronics to compare?

Can't wait for this ride!!! No matter where it is or whatever...CANT WAIT FOR FROZEN RIDE!!!!

you just registered to type that?
Almost feels CMs are flocking to defend again lol.

 

[danlb_2000]

Any examples of other A1 type animatronics to compare?


you just registered to type that?
Almost feels CMs are flocking to defend again lol.

Re-Registered, and he didn't even try hard to hide it.

 

[Prince Thomas]

Any examples of other A1 type animatronics to compare?


you just registered to type that?
Almost feels CMs are flocking to defend again lol.

Been on the site for years now, felt like it was time to register. And what a better way to start than with one of my fave movies which is now getting its own ride at EPCOT!!!!
Thanks for the interest in my post and making me feel so welcome here on my 1st post!!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Any examples of other A1 type animatronics to compare?

I'm no expert on this matter, but according to sources i've found, it's stated that the earliest Lincoln animatronic was an A1 model. So it's likely that the figures in the original Carousel of Progress are those models as well (don't know if they were updated when the attraction was renovated in '94). Apparently A1 models were used for many animatronic human figures until 1989. On that date they released the much more advanced newer generation A100 models (I gather the Wicked Witch in Great Movie Ride was the first A100 figures used in a Disney attraction). So probably most humanoid animatronic figures created between 1964 and 1988 (and any that remain unaltered since '89) were A1 models. I think some of the classic rides such as Pirates have updated their animatronics to A100's over the years (probably the new Jack Sparrow figures and the auctioneer are A100's while the rest are likely the older models). Someone can correct me if i'm wrong though. I don't know what models figures such as Ariel, Ursula and the dwarfs are using (if they are even considered a part of that series line at all).

Needless to say, A1 animatronics are quite old now. I still think they're neat and do prefer them to video projections, but it would be a shame to go with an older outdated model when there have been far better ones available for 25 years.

http://modelmakingresearchiadt.wikispaces.com/Disney's Animatronic Puppetry
http://wedwayradio.squarespace.com/...ents-with-mr-lincoln-part-1-of-disney-an.html



There have been some really awesome advancements from WDI in the past few years for facial animation for AA's as well. They showed off an impressive new Lincoln head at D23 that showcases some awesome expression-


I'm not sure whether the A1 comment was a typo or if he was serious about the ride using older model AA's. Perhaps they're intending to repurpose some of the old animatronics from Maelstrom for the Frozen ride. No surprise if they do that, we've been told to expect this new Frozen ride to be done very cheaply. Tokyo is getting the real quality big budget Frozen ride.

 

[jensenrick]

OK I'll finally say it for the first time. I think Frozen is one of the lamest Disney movies ever. I don't understand it's appeal. And to put it where Maelstrom was is insane. I can't wait for Frozen to "Thaw"!!! Maybe that should be the name of the sequel.

If Disney wants to capitalize on one of their recent movies, do it in another park and use Tangled or Princess and The Frog. Much better movies.

Thank goodness you stepped forward. Another voice for the choir. Line forms to the left.

 

[jensenrick]

Well the budget we heard was $75 mil. Consider that it will be using the same ride system it's not going to be a cheap overlay. I would expect several Mine Train style animatronics and hopefully some halfway decent show scenes. I think if this ride was being put in Fantasyland we would all be thrilled.

I would certainly hope so as well. I don't know if the characters lend themselves to Mine Train style animatronics, but there is no reason why they couldn't have some decent show scenes.

As for the last part, some people will be thrilled to ride it, even if they don't have to go to kiddieland to get there. Just IMO of course.

 

[jensenrick]

I would be beyond thrilled because thats where it belongs. There is no arguing that, anyone that believes this has its place in World showcase is just plain wrong. They were never a fan of WDW if they think otherwise.

Darn. Guess i'll go tear up my fan card. 42 years of visiting WDW down the drain. (sigh)

 

[bhg469]

Darn. Guess i'll go tear up my fan card. 47 years of visiting WDW down the drain. (sigh)

Well if the past decade wasn't reason enough you never will have one.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I'm no expert on this matter, but according to sources i've found, it's stated that the earliest Lincoln animatronic was an A1 model. So it's likely that the figures in the original Carousel of Progress are those models as well (don't know if they were updated when the attraction was renovated in '94). Apparently A1 models were used for many animatronic human figures until 1989. On that date they released the much more advanced newer generation A100 models (I gather the Wicked Witch in Great Movie Ride was the first A100 figures used in a Disney attraction). So probably most humanoid animatronic figures created between 1964 and 1988 (and any that remain unaltered since '89) were A1 models. I think some of the classic rides such as Pirates have updated their animatronics to A100's over the years (probably the new Jack Sparrow figures and the auctioneer are A100's while the rest are likely the older models). Someone can correct me if i'm wrong though. I don't know what models figures such as Ariel, Ursula and the dwarfs are using (if they are even considered a part of that series line at all).

Needless to say, A1 animatronics are quite old now. I still think they're neat and do prefer them to video projections, but it would be a shame to go with an older outdated model when there have been far better ones available for 25 years.

http://modelmakingresearchiadt.wikispaces.com/Disney's Animatronic Puppetry
http://wedwayradio.squarespace.com/...ents-with-mr-lincoln-part-1-of-disney-an.html



There have been some really awesome advancements from WDI in the past few years for facial animation for AA's as well. They showed off an impressive new Lincoln head at D23 that showcases some awesome expression-


I'm not sure whether the A1 comment was a typo or if he was serious about the ride using older model AA's. Perhaps they're intending to repurpose some of the old animatronics from Maelstrom for the Frozen ride. No surprise if they do that, we've been told to expect this new Frozen ride to be done very cheaply. Tokyo is getting the real quality big budget Frozen ride.

Sadly I was told it would be A1's, like the Carousel of Progress figures. However, they have something call compliance. Which helps to make them more realistic. Newer A1 figures use compliance, as do upgraded older ones.

 

[bhg469]

With today's news I can't wait for a frozen Cuba pavilion! Because why not?! Cuba Libre frozen coke machines everywhere!

 

[JEANYLASER]

I hope not! I love Frozen in Norway!

 

[PhotoDave219]

By day, I'm a commercial construction manager. I just finished a 2-year project wherein we gutted half of a hospital down to bare concrete and built-out completely new facilities in the shell spaces. It was considered a "remodel" only by Building Permit definition - but it was certainly "mass demolition" and a complete interior re-build. I stand by my assessment.



If they're leaving the ride system, that saves a TON of money. They have the molds to produce the new boats back in Central Shops, so that's a minor cost, relatively speaking.

So, the $75M should go pretty far toward the mass demolition we're seeing, and re-building of all the sets. And when the "insiders" hear these budget numbers, who's to say they're not just hearing construction costs. The costs for AAs and ride systems may be tracked completely separately, or not included in the numbers that slip through loose lips.

I agree that it will likely be a very nice Fantasyland ride. Maybe it should replace Small World, and move Small World dolls to Norway and dress them all as trolls and frozen dolls.

Well you're right. If everyone remembers, back when they read did it it's a small world in the mid to thousands… They took it all the way down to the dirt floor. They repoured just about everything.

I would be shocked if Disney didn't something similar