Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

[AEfx]

Technically, the ride will have a higher capacity if rumors are true about load/unload being in the same area and current load area being scene 1.

However, the capacity is still going to be very low for the demand.

If they keep the ride system entirely the same. That's part of the unknown right now - we don't even have any good rumors about what is actually going to take place over those 18 months - I will be very interested as we hear more.

 

[danlb_2000]

It's the method some do it with, not the fact that they do it. Some of them drag anyone on here who disagrees with them into their rage towards Disney.

Go back into the #750 post range to see where the conversation with me on here turned ugly. ed off poster who opposed this move did not like my opinion so they started their childish attics. #763 & #770 were the points where it became clear that some on here did not want to conversant they just want their views reaffirmed. When that did not occur they just continued to try and bully their point in, look at #802, classic way some on here handle people who disagree with them. It's all right there for anyone interested to read.

Sorry, don't see it. I totally agree with post 763, and post 770 is yours.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Do you really think our debate here ever had a chance of changing Disney's mind on this? If not, then debating before the fact is really no different then debating after the fact.

No, I don't. But I think going back and forth about the same thing for 200 pages is pointless.

 

[AEfx]

I have ridden Maelstrom twice in my life, I have no emotion of connection to it. I have more rational reasons for feeling that Frozen is a bad idea. And since the purpose of a discussion board is to have discussions, I see no problem with explaining why I feel this way, and I have no problem with people who explain why they think it's a good idea.

If that's the case, then I clearly wasn't talking about you.

That's the trouble here, this is so dang political someone could do a very good study of political discourse and it's similarities to discussions on WDW message boards, LOL. Everyone has to be on one side or the other, there is no room for middle ground or rationality - it's tow the party line.

If someone goes back and reads this thread from the beginning (something I don't wish on anyone, LOL) - you will see the evolution of the discussion. "THIS IS A TRAVESTY AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE - YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!" was the starting point, LOL. As was "Characters were never a part of WS" - which they have been, since 1985 with the character bus. And then it was "Well, characters should not be in ATTRACTIONS in WS!" which, they have been, since about 2007.

Then it turned into "Frozen has NOTHING NADA AT ALL to do with Norway" - which clearly has been shown to not be the case. Then "Frozen isn't ENOUGH about Norway..." and when countered with the fact that the existing ride, taken on it's own, really isn't a lot about Norway either - since then, it's just been ugly and folks focusing on trampling on the "dissenters" who actually don't think this is the best thing ever to happen - but don't believe in the hyperbole that it's the worst thing, either.

So the post you quoted me about was regarding folks who just reach into esoteric notions that when those notions are challenged simply call you a "moron" or "idiot" because they put so much energy and fury into it that they project their unhappiness and rage at folks who are OK with this.

That's what I was referring to - if folks don't like it and say why, hey, as you said - that's what a message board is for. It's the "if you don't validate my rage you are a moron, you are the problem, you are why we can't have nice things" which has largely colored this entire discussion and brought it to the state it is at now.

 

[Beholder]

I'm going to say this. I've stated why I don't like the idea of Frozen going into WS. And it's absolutely correct that Frozen IS coming. It's going to be a hit, monster successful, no doubt. I think that's great, I really do, too often I disparage Disney for not doing enough of this or too much of that. So in the context of doing something positive for WDW all up, then they will have done a good thing.

I don't, however, believe it's wrong or living in the past for someone to express their love or like of an attraction. I assume that most of us here enjoy Disney for various reasons, so when an aspect of that love is removed or replaced, it's sometimes painful, yes? When Mr Toad was removed, many people expressed outrage and heartache of losing this "classic" much like I did with 20k under the sea. The point is, sometimes we take it personal because it is personal to us. Much like music takes on different meanings for different people, EPCOT, or AK or Coke or The Beatles or Dr Who, each "thing", especially entertainment related, takes on it's own life for each individual. In the end, it's a business that answers to the share holders, but when their business is "making memories", you can expect a little grief when some of those "memories" are removed.

I have accepted Frozen. I like the movie, I like the music, I like the characters and I love that Disney animation is once again on top. I think Frozen deserves it's very own, one off attraction, and I think it's hordes of fans deserve it too. I mean, they paid for this success.

So I'll just say that if, in any way, I have contributed to any of the arguing or hyperbole, then that was not my intention. The last thing I would ever want to is get in an argument about Disney. It's supposed to be one of the few places I can "escape" to, not a place I agonize over.

 

[BigTxEars]

Sorry, don't see it. I totally agree with post 763, and post 770 is yours.

Sorry #771

Mine:
"Since it is behind the current ride and it's mythology and the movie mythology I think the Frozen overlay fits within Norway at WS."

Reply:
"I'm sure you do...."

Trying to be a smartbutt, nothing more...he wanted a little fight clearly, he got one.

And #763, "Get It Yet"?....a little jab at my comprehension.......and he wanted a little fight and he got it as well...

It's not that the people are voicing their concern over these moves that cause issues in these cases, it's the way they treat the people who disagree with them which cause things to turn negative.

 

[AEfx]

So I'll just say that if, in any way, I have contributed to any of the arguing or hyperbole, then that was not my intention. The last thing I would ever want to is get in an argument about Disney. It's supposed to be one of the few places I can "escape" to, not a place I agonize over.

Unless you've said "This is the ruination of Epcot! If you don't see that, you are a moron!" then I don't think you have anything to worry about.

Credit where credit is due, I don't believe anyone has brought up Walt rolling over in his grave yet - though mainly I think that's because they know that if he was rolling over Epcot, he's been doing so since 1982 since what opened had very little to do with his original vision, to begin with.

 

[Suspirian]

That's it? Semantics? You do cross a bridge and enter a land called "Africa" correct? The story is that you are in an actual representation of that continent (not a specific country, but still meant to be reality based.) Then all Disney has to do is re-christen the pavilion back to the more generic "Scandinavia" and all's right with the world(showcase). Epcot Center purists will be thrilled as this was the original idea before the financing came in and it became simply "Norway."
Also, check out the Viking Longboat in Elsa's bedroom, perhaps she's also a Maelstrom fan.

yes, and The Lion King takes place in an African savannah. I think it all boils down to the areas focus really. Harambe focuses on the animals found in African savannahs and rainforests and FOTL compliments that rather nicely IMO. World Showcase specifically Norway is supposed to focus on the culture of that specific region. If The area was switched back to Scandinavia then it would soften the blow a bit and i cant say i would be totally against Frozen coming if that was the case, but its not.

 

[AEfx]

If The area was switched back to Scandinavia then it would soften the blow a bit and i cant say i would be totally against Frozen coming if that was the case, but its not.

That's the part I don't get.

Maelstrom as it exists right now, is not really specific to Norway - trolls and Nordic gods are overall Scandinavian. Frozen is more specific in it's references - to actual cities, places, and buildings in Norway itself.

 

[AEfx]

Well, you have become a major defender of the project, it's not surprising that people with a differing opinion will attack you for it.

See, hyperbole.

"Major defender" is - this was the best place for this attraction, there is no where more appropriate, this was the best outcome, etc.

No one has said that. What folks have said is "this isn't the end of the World as we know it, it's not entirely inappropriate as is being put forth".

I gave you the benefit of the doubt with my reply above explaining the nuances of this, but I have to say - all I see you contributing right now is to be argumentative - it would be easier to understand your point if, you know, you made one that was relevant to the actual discussion at hand instead of simply critiquing how others are discussing it.

 

[Beholder]

Does anyone have an example of what $75 mil might actually get us? It has an existing building, infrastructure, track layout, and I realize a bit of that will have be redone or reconfigured, but can that money make a significant change? In Disney dollars that is.

 

[AEfx]

Does anyone have an example of what $75 mil might actually get us? It has an existing building, infrastructure, track layout, and I realize a bit of that will have be redone or reconfigured, but can that money make a significant change? In Disney dollars that is.

I'll be honest - I was surprised at that number. It does seem like a nice hunk of change.

On one hand, though, I know it's often true that it costs more to renovate something than just tear it down and start fresh, but on the other - it does seem like 75M in that space should be able to accomplish a lot.

That's one reason I'm not entirely convinced the ride system will be staying as is, and this will simply be an overlay - it does seem like there is going to be more to it than that.

Once it's underway, I will be very curious and anxious to hear what really is going to go on in that space.

 

[danlb_2000]

Does anyone have an example of what $75 mil might actually get us? It has an existing building, infrastructure, track layout, and I realize a bit of that will have be redone or reconfigured, but can that money make a significant change? In Disney dollars that is.

There is also talk of a M&G, I wonder if they might construct a new building back stage for that. I just can't see how they will squeeze in a M&G with a sufficient queue without adding on, or removing something.

 

[BigTxEars]

Well, you have become a major defender of the project, it's not surprising that people with a differing opinion will attack you for it.

My point exactly, I voice my opinion and I am attacked for it yet the accusation was that people wanted the folks who opposed this move silenced. Not what occurred at all.

 

[danlb_2000]

See, hyperbole.

"Major defender" is - this was the best place for this attraction, there is no where more appropriate, this was the best outcome, etc.

No one has said that. What folks have said is "this isn't the end of the World as we know it, it's not entirely inappropriate as is being put forth".

I gave you the benefit of the doubt with my reply above explaining the nuances of this, but I have to say - all I see you contributing right now is to be argumentative - it would be easier to understand your point if, you know, you made one that was relevant to the actual discussion at hand instead of simply critiquing how others are discussing it.

No hyperbole at all. Since page 128 he made 200 posts to this thread (that's where the search function stopped counting) a lot of them defending the idea. There is nothing wrong with that, but he has clearly invested himself in defending it. He seems to be one of the most vocal defenders IMHO.

 

[danlb_2000]

My point exactly, I voice my opinion and I am attacked for it yet the accusation was that people wanted the folks who opposed this move silenced. Not what occurred at all.

Who made the accusation?

 

[Mike S]

Does anyone have an example of what $75 mil might actually get us? It has an existing building, infrastructure, track layout, and I realize a bit of that will have be redone or reconfigured, but can that money make a significant change? In Disney dollars that is.

Here's an example.

This cost $30M according to WDW1974 but as far as I can tell all the work went into the ride with minimal change to the queue except some Monsters Inc. decorations and according to rumors the Frozen ride WILL have major changes to the queue so that costs some extra money right there. If the current load area is made into a new scene that's even more money. Now add in the M&G and I'm expecting this ride to be on a similar level to Monsters in DCA.

 

[BigTxEars]

I'm cracking up that you still want to complain about this. And pick at people in the meantime. LET IT GO! I was not picking on you, but whatever. Also, I'm a WOMAN! LOL!

I was responding to the recent post claiming that the folks who do not oppose this move want to silence those that do. Your post was a perfect example of that not being the case so I used it. I am not upset about it, but it clearly shows the truth of the matter. Like I said everyone can read the train of post back then and make their own judgements on the intentions of them if they want too.

 

[danlb_2000]

Here's an example.

This cost $30M according to WDW1974 but as far as I can tell all the work went into the ride with minimal change to the queue except some Monsters Inc. decorations and according to rumors the Frozen ride WILL have major changes to the queue so that costs some extra money right there. If the current load area is made into a new scene that's even more money. Now add in the M&G and I'm expecting this ride to be on a similar level to Monsters in DCA.

... and that was built 10 years ago.

 

[aladdin2007]

There is also talk of a M&G, I wonder if they might construct a new building back stage for that. I just can't see how they will squeeze in a M&G with a sufficient queue without adding on, or removing something.

A few pages back in a post I had brainstormed that possibly, since the current load room is so large part of it could be reconfigured into a show scene, while some of the rest of it could be reconfigured/rebuilt into the meetngreet, along with a complete layout redo of that entire entrance/exit space etc. Just a thought.

By the way guys what about 2 to 3 hours left of operation?