Disney confirms 'Frozen' makeover coming to Epcot's Norway Pavilion

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
I don't believe Epcot was ever unprofitable.
That's not the line. Businesses don't operate with a goal of just making a bit of profit. They operate with a goal of making as much profit as they can. We call that capitalism.
 

ryan1

Well-Known Member
Another issue I have with it is that the ride footprint is way too small to do a huge successful film like Frozen justice.

You have 5 (anna, elsa, kristoff, olaf, sven) - 7 (trolls, marshmellow) characters that you HAVE to include in the ride and the main 5 are going to have to make multiple appearances throughout.

The layout of the ride now only has 6 scene areas (vikings area I count as 2 scenes, troll scene, polar bears scene, waterfall/troll 2 scene, and the oil rig scene).

How can they cram all of those characters into that limited of scenes and the short run time of 4 1/2 minutes and make the ride satisfying, not just to the general public but to the die hard Frozen fans, and coherent?
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
At it's core that's exactly what both Disney and Norway are doing. This is a business decision, this isn't about staying true to EPCOT, because let's face it, the vision of EPCOT looks nothing what was ever built, this is about selling tickets. Frozen has a huge following, so Disney has chosen to capitalize on it by putting it in a country where it heavily borrowed themes from, depending on what the finished version looks like it's quite possible that replacing Maelstrom with a Frozen themed ride is the most economically viable choice. It'll draw crowds, it'll sell tickets, it'll sell merchandise, and the eternal optimist in me hopes that some of that revenue equates into more attractions being updated/built. I've always loved the Norway pavillion, but to me Maelstrom is a mediocre ride at best. Often times I would skip it if the lines were on the longer side, in the summer I'll take it just to get out of the heat for a few minutes.

A few years ago I decided I wanted to take a trip to Norway, I had a trip coming up to WDW so I made a point to stop by the Norway pavillion. You know where I learned the most about the country? Not from taking a 5 minute ride, but by actually talking to the Norwegians who worked there. They were incredibly helpful in helping me plan my entire itinerary. At the end of the day EPCOT is a theme park, change is going to happen, I may not love the idea of a Frozen attraction, but I understand the reasons why, and I'll reserve judgement until it's finished and I get to experience it for myself.
Glad to know a childhood favorite of mine is disappearing, disappearing (sob) because of a business decision. Truly soothing for my wounds. Yes, soothing like salt and lemon juice.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
Profit is relative. 20 million a year is better than 1.

I also tend to think that Disney righted the ship before Epcot ran in the red. If an unaltered 1995 version of Epcot still remained, I think the black ink would not.

Epcot was always going to need to be kept up. The concept could have remained and profits maintained. Healthy profits.

Disney could have made buckets of money off of Frozen somewhere other than the World Showcase. There are alternatives. They could have stayed true to the Epcot of old and still pursued the almighty dollar.

There is this myth that Epcot was boring and/or unsuccessful. I have yet to see any proof of it. Disney changed the concept of Epcot because characters and thrill rides are "easy".
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
Epcot was always going to need to be kept up. The concept could have remained and profits maintained. Healthy profits.

Disney could have made buckets of money off of Frozen somewhere other than the World Showcase. There are alternatives. They could have stayed true to the Epcot of old and still pursued the almighty dollar.

There is this myth that Epcot was boring and/or unsuccessful. I have yet to see any proof of it. Disney changed the concept of Epcot because characters and thrill rides are "easy".
This I agree with.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
That's not the line. Businesses don't operate with a goal of just making a bit of profit. They operate with a goal of making as much profit as they can. We call that capitalism.

D'uh.

I'm not advocating socialism.

Why does everyone think that when people are critical of Disney they don't understand the basic principles of capitalism? That is the most tired argument on these threads!
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking.... I am not a fan of this decision to put a movie makeover on this Epcot Pavilion.

I'll reserve judgement until more details or the makeover is complete. The movie is less than a year old... and despite the popularity and awards and general clamoring for merchandise and character greetings, it seems like there is an over-eagerness to cash in on such a young film.
 

Lucky

Well-Known Member
"The new attraction, which replaces Maelstrom, will take our guests to Arendelle and immerse them in many of their favorite moments and music from the film."

Some people are still using the word "overlay" as if this is like adding Jack Sparrow to PoTC. For better or (IMO) worse it's going to be a different attraction with a different name that just happens to occupy the same space as Maelstrom - more like Mr. Toad and Winnie the Pooh.
 

STITCHGEFAN

Member
I think the importance here is that the pavilion doesn't become Arendelle and complies with the much loved traditions of WS.

I'm in the camp that, like Epcot itself, Malestrom had done its mileage, and the fact we are getting a new ride at Epcot is great news. But it would be a slap in the face of Disney purists and those that made Epcot unique to any other theme park if the pavilion was dismantled for a small, lazy attempt at Frozen land.

For a wider audience I think bringing Frozen is obvious and kudos to Disney for reacting relatively quickly. Hopefully they produce a ride that captivates the target audience but also appeases those who appreciate Norway and World Showcase for what it is.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Epcot was always going to need to be kept up. The concept could have remained and profits maintained. Healthy profits.

Disney could have made buckets of money off of Frozen somewhere other than the World Showcase. There are alternatives. They could have stayed true to the Epcot of old and still pursued the almighty dollar.

There is this myth that Epcot was boring and/or unsuccessful. I have yet to see any proof of it. Disney changed the concept of Epcot because characters and thrill rides are "easy".
And I doubt we will find evidence either way unless you or I land a job that grants us access deep inside the financial and guest complaints history of WDW. All we have is the corner of the Rosetta Stone and we are both drawing our own conclusions based on the fragments we have.
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
Holy smokes, a disparaging comment made it onto the blog page, how long till it's removed:
Michael from NC on September 12th, 2014 at 2:58 pm
I strongly disapprove of replacing a ride about the history and folklore of Norway with one about a fairy tale that has nothing to do with Norway.

I also wish you would stop dragging out that Walt quote to justify changes that you know will be unpopular.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
D'uh.

I'm not advocating socialism.

Why does everyone think that when people are critical of Disney they don't understand the basic principles of capitalism? That is the most tired argument on these threads!
You made the argument that since it was making a profit, it didn't need to change. That is the most tired argument.

When you explained further in another post, I agreed with you. So we're good!
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Holy smokes, a disparaging comment made it onto the blog page, how long till it's removed:
Michael from NC on September 12th, 2014 at 2:58 pm
I strongly disapprove of replacing a ride about the history and folklore of Norway with one about a fairy tale that has nothing to do with Norway.

I also wish you would stop dragging out that Walt quote to justify changes that you know will be unpopular.
Great Michael's think alike.
 

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