News Disney CEO Bob Chapek commits to look into reintroducing the Disneyland and Walt Disney World combined annual pass

[matt9112]

I'm not sure how this product can have any value with current park reservation system. But I suppose at it's insane price point you could remove that.

 

[pdude81]

Completely different backends. WDW has an extremely custom system built around a product called SnAPP. Disneyland uses a mostly off the shelf system called Galaxy. Universal also uses Galaxy. (Not proprietary information)

The problem mainly is one of scale - WDW is such a huge and unique beast, it makes sense to develop custom systems and processes because no vendor is going to give you exactly what you want. The place is big enough it can support this.

However, Disneyland isn't that big and doesn't need all of the "extra" stuff - but does sell to a different enough type of guest they need some local control.

It's ultimately better for them to be separate otherwise you end up with a situation like Aulani where they were forced to be part of WDW's systems despite it being absolutely not appropriate for 1000 rooms in Hawaii. That's why the idea of MM+ was killed pretty quickly in Anaheim.

But we're still talking about rfid tags in a band/puck/bracelet. What those identifying elements unlock or map to could be different in two different systems. You just need the ID's to exist in both systems and map to their respective tickets.

 

[drnilescrane]

You just need the ID's to exist in both systems and map to their respective tickets.

That's been the hard part. What you described is basically how it worked up until now - somebody in CA sells you a pass, they mark it down into an excel spreadsheet and it goes into a queue for a person sitting in FL to go and manually make sure it exists in their system and vice versa.

They could automate it but annual sales volume over the 10 or so years never went above the cost of 1 O&T cast member sitting in an office doing it in addition to their other duties.

 

[celluloid]

Make it reservation free with no block out dates and I’d pay that, with reservations required it’s not worth $1500.

For no Blackouts you are looking closer to 5 grand most likely.

 

[pdude81]

That's been the hard part. What you described is basically how it worked up until now - somebody in CA sells you a pass, they mark it down into an excel spreadsheet and it goes into a queue for a person sitting in FL to go and manually make sure it exists in their system and vice versa.

They could automate it but annual sales volume over the 10 or so years never went above the cost of 1 O&T cast member sitting in an office doing it in addition to their other duties.

I was more referring to magic bands, which would end up with a much bigger base of people than the premier tickets would have been. As far as those go, they could just sell it as a "bundle" for both top level passes but as you say the volume is quite low.

I guess it depends on how they intend to use magic bands at DLR. Assuming they will limit to MB+, it would dramatically limit the number of people with multiple themed bands that needed to be registered in a merged identity database somewhere. Of course that assumes MB+ ever actually shows up on either coast.

 

[lewisc]

A possibility we're missing. Could a new combined AP be the only AP offered for either park? You want an AP? We've pulled out all the stops. You couldn't dream of a pass that includes more. Priced by the same team that priced the Starcruiser.

 

[celluloid]

A possibility we're missing. Could a new combined AP be the only AP offered for either park? You want an AP? We've pulled out all the stops. You couldn't dream of a pass that includes more. Priced by the same team that priced the Starcruiser.

No or at least doubtful because as we know even now in the most extreme limitations of admission they have had, they still kept the weekday option, which is the cheapest option just to keep the parks making money on the weekdays. They want that tier to keep making money on those many days of the year as well, so they are not ready to price that market out just yet.

 

[jasminethecat]

Given everything Chapek has done, does any old AP holder actually believe that Disney wants you coming to the parks on a regular basis for a relatively low entry point? No, the new direction of disney is slightly lower attendance, fewer cast members and more profit per person entering the gates. AP's generally don't fill disney hotels, they buy less food & merchandise and they're likely buy fewer ride upgrades since coming isn't a once in a lifetime or a once in a decade experience.

Disney has enough demand from people in the rest of the USA (and the world) who haven't been in years. And until that pent-up demand is spent, there isn't room for AP holders or any people who used to be experts at planning an affordable trip to WDW pre-covid (like me). Maybe it will take years for that demand to come down, and they know people like me will eventually come back even to what is now a subpar experience. Coaster parks have competition, WDW and DLR do not. Yes you can go to universal, but it's not Disney. So unless you decide to fall out-of-love with the house of mouse, you're locked in and Disney knows it.

I honestly think they just don't care what AP holders do in the short term, it's not who they're catering to at the moment. Feel free to come and join the crowds if there is still room, you're only helping to sell more genie+ and ILL's every day. And when you get frustrated and decide not to renew, they will sell a new and more expensive AP which better suits their short and long-term profit model.

 

[celluloid]

Given everything Chapek has done, does any old AP holder actually believe that Disney wants you coming to the parks on a regular basis for a relatively low entry point? No, the new direction of disney is slightly lower attendance, fewer cast members and more profit per person entering the gates. AP's generally don't fill disney hotels, they buy less food & merchandise and they're likely buy fewer ride upgrades since coming isn't a once in a lifetime or a once in a decade experience.

Disney has enough demand from people in the rest of the USA (and the world) who haven't been in years. And until that pent-up demand is spent, there isn't room for AP holders or any people who used to be experts at planning an affordable trip to WDW pre-covid (like me). Maybe it will take years for that demand to come down, and they know people like me will eventually come back even to what is now a subpar experience. Coaster parks have competition, WDW and DLR do not. Yes you can go to universal, but it's not Disney. So unless you decide to fall out-of-love with the house of mouse, you're locked in and Disney knows it.

I honestly think they just don't care what AP holders do in the short term, it's not who they're catering to at the moment. Feel free to come and join the crowds if there is still room, you're only helping to sell more genie+ and ILL's every day. And when you get frustrated and decide not to renew, they will sell a new and more expensive AP which better suits their short and long-term profit model.

I understand why it would feel this way, but this is a fallacy.

While big spending is always better per head, FL resident and APs are still a huge boost to the bottom line and weekdays and particularly slower times of the year(this is why it seems there is no slower time of the year, they have become very good at getting as many people in with incentives and timing) will still have a hard time making them much profit. If so, the weekday pass would have gotten the boot first, not be the only one remaining.

Florida is the third most populated state and easiest to spend your money at Disney be it the theme parks or for random meals and treats or two weekend getaways a year at an onsite hotel.

Green is green.

 

[pdude81]

I understand why it would feel this way, but this is a fallacy.

While big spending is always better per head, FL resident and APs are still a huge boost to the bottom line and weekdays and particularly slower times of the year(this is why it seems there is no slower time of the year, they have become very good at getting as many people in with incentives and timing) will still have a hard time making them much profit. If so, the weekday pass would have gotten the boot first, not be the only one remaining.

Florida is the third most populated state and easiest to spend your money at Disney be it the theme parks or for random meals and treats.

Green is green.

Right. And annual passholders help guarantee a certain amount of visitation as food/beverage income. Now they they've monetized fastpass, each passholder is already much more valuable than they were before.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I understand why it would feel this way, but this is a fallacy.

While big spending is always better per head, FL resident and APs are still a huge boost to the bottom line and weekdays and particularly slower times of the year(this is why it seems there is no slower time of the year, they have become very good at getting as many people in with incentives and timing) will still have a hard time making them much profit. If so, the weekday pass would have gotten the boot first, not be the only one remaining.

Florida is the third most populated state and easiest to spend your money at Disney be it the theme parks or for random meals and treats or two weekend getaways a year at an onsite hotel.

Green is green.

Eh, I think this holds up pretty well at Disneyland, but DVC serves the same purpose in Orlando and at a much higher PCGS.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney CEO Bob Chapek commits to look into reintroducing the Disneyland and Walt Disney World combined annual pass

Will the Disney Premier Passport make a return? Bob Chapek says he will look into the possibility.

www.wdwmagic.com

The cost:

But don‘t worry, it will require a park pass reservation and will have plenty of blackout dates.

 

[celluloid]

Eh, I think this holds up pretty well at Disneyland, but DVC serves the same purpose in Orlando and at a much higher PCGS.

Then why did Disney allow APs to renew and the weekday pass to be the one sold? Facts are facts.

 

[jasminethecat]

Then why did Disney allow APs to renew and the weekday pass to be the one sold? Facts are facts.

You can say that weekday pass and AP holders are a huge boost (you said that in your last reply to me), but we don't know what that number really is. What selling weekday passes only tells me is that disney doesn't want florida residents coming in on weekends or holidays when they can be at capacity with higher profit customers, and they can block out offsite and last minute AP bookings as much as they want with the park reservations system. Regular AP renewals will go down through attrition as passholders either lose interest or die out (literally). With the park reservation system and attendance being completely ambiguous numbers, neither of us have a good idea if 50% of attendance or only 5% comes from florida residents. Is it a huge boost as you said, or just filling in the gaps as I surmise? I would love to have access to their data to see how this all actually works out. I feel like we're looking at a giant tile floor, the tiles are on-prem bookings and AP's represent the caulk in between the tiles. You seem to think that a good percentage of the tiles are from AP holders. Maybe you are right.

After reading your last response i did change my beliefs - i don't think getting rid of all APs or weekday passes is the goal. I think minimizing it so they can maximize profits elsewhere is the goal. Chapek's WDW is not leaving money on the table in any other area, so I doubt they will do it here.

 

[celluloid]

You can say that weekday pass and AP holders are a huge boost (you said that in your last reply to me), but we don't know what that number really is. What selling weekday passes only tells me is that disney doesn't want florida residents coming in on weekends or holidays when they can be at capacity with higher profit customers, and they can block out offsite and last minute AP bookings as much as they want with the park reservations system. Regular AP renewals will go down through attrition as passholders either lose interest or die out (literally). With the park reservation system and attendance being completely ambiguous numbers, neither of us have a good idea if 50% of attendance or only 5% comes from florida residents. Is it a huge boost as you said, or just filling in the gaps as I surmise? I would love to have access to their data to see how this all actually works out. I feel like we're looking at a giant tile floor, the tiles are on-prem bookings and AP's represent the caulk in between the tiles. You seem to think that a good percentage of the tiles are from AP holders. Maybe you are right.

After reading your last response i did change my beliefs - i don't think getting rid of all APs or weekday passes is the goal. I think minimizing it so they can maximize profits elsewhere is the goal. Chapek's WDW is not leaving money on the table in any other area, so I doubt they will do it here.

The numbers for my point to you really don't matter. if Disney did not want people taking up space at the park even in this crucial time they would not allow Passholders to renew out of courtesy and remain selling versions. The Annual Passholder concept was brought up as not mattering. The response was to the extreme thought that Annual passes would be done away with entirely for good. Not likely. You just raise the price to match the demand and make more money.

I think the reservation system is allowing them of course to maximize your second paragraph's point. That is what they have been trying to do for years. It is a balancing act. This is also what has always changes the amount of discounted Annual Passholder rooms onsite, special dining offers and prices of APs themselves etc. It is just now easier than ever. Much like Magic Bands were a more instant survey feedback.

I worked at the Disney Reservation Center in Trends. I have a pretty good idea. Things shift, but this was only four years ago. This is why all onsite hotels can be booked and the theme parks are still not at capacity. Even with those staying off site, Disney loves the trippers. In many ways they remain a unique value.

If they book a table for two or three at a restaurant and eat, guess what? That family on their once a year trip will still eat something as they have no means to go out. Flip it, and the locals don't have to settle for quick service, they will just drive to Golden Corral on their way home.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Not at a slight to anyone on these boards, but does anyone who complains about reservations (lack there of) have an AP? While yes having to make reservations and having to wait to 2pm to hop and making a reservation are extremely annoying, I’ve never had issues making a reservation. I’ve been to the parks 2-3 times every month since October, and have made my reservation 2-3 days before for 95% of those trips. (I have a sorcerer pass)

 

[jasminethecat]

I worked at the Disney Reservation Center in Trends. I have a pretty good idea. Things shift, but this was only four years ago.

"Things shift" is a total understatement when you compare 2018 to today. Literally everything in the parks have changed since covid. You mean the days when they had discount hotel promos 1-2x a year? Free dining plans in the fall? Free magic bands? Mousekeeping? Free Magic Express service? Free fast passes at 60 days out? 180 day ADRs? Lots of CMs and great customer service? It was a completely different business model back then, they made money through volume. But covid was a perfect excuse to disrupt and make dramatic changes to all service and pricing models in the parks. AP's may not ever go away completely, but if they were a huge boost to profits then we should see sales start back up within a year. Revenues don't equal profits, and Disney doesn't appear to want more revenue via increased attendance if it requires more staffing and cuts profits margins due to discounts. Time will tell.

 

[CntrlFlPete]

Not at a slight to anyone on these boards, but does anyone who complains about reservations (lack there of) have an AP? While yes having to make reservations and having to wait to 2pm to hop and making a reservation are extremely annoying, I’ve never had issues making a reservation. I’ve been to the parks 2-3 times every month since October, and have made my reservation 2-3 days before for 95% of those trips. (I have a sorcerer pass)

I have the same pass (and have not been complaining about the pass system), I will say my real pain point is around the four pass limit. It is hard to tell when slots will run out, so there is some care in that -- well, friends will be here and we want to spend three days with them -- if I do not want to chance being locked out, the only option is to lock up three picks --

I have only been blocked out once, we tend to make our picks the day before -- I have had to wait until two to meet w/ family that came to town last minute.

Not the worst of things, but something that can easily be a pain point.

 

[CntrlFlPete]

to folks that think AP's are not wanted by WDW, please explain how Epcot has been so successful as a Festival park? Apers do not spend money -- sure some tourist visit (mainly AP holders I bet) -- but could they charge what the charge all those vendors, sell all that found and drink -- in my opinion, if APs did not spend money, Epcot would not be a festival park 98% of the year.

FL res APs fall into two buckets (in my eyes). Folks within 100 miles and folks outside of 100 miles. Many of the AP holders in the four hours or more travel range stay on site, multiple nights.

Those close by still by food merch -- heck, in many ways (w/ genie+) getting AP's in the park is (really the only) way to get $$ over and above the AP spend from these folks -- they will grab these add ons from time to time, they buy merchandise, they try all the sit downs -- locals spend a lot over the time frame of their passes, not every pass holder is a ride only visitor.

 

[TikibirdLand]

to folks that think AP's are not wanted by WDW, please explain how Epcot has been so successful as a Festival park? Apers do not spend money -- sure some tourist visit (mainly AP holders I bet) -- but could they charge what the charge all those vendors, sell all that found and drink -- in my opinion, if APs did not spend money, Epcot would not be a festival park 98% of the year.

Yeah, that's a great point. Didn't think how the festivals were so successful. As someone who has never even thought about being an AP, that makes total sense. We have no desire to go to EPCoT's food and booze stalls. I never stopped to think, why would anyone pay $100 to enter the park just to spend more money on the f&f? I could see as something one might do some random evening as an API: pop in enjoy a stroll through WS and snack while doing so. Then, catch the Fireworks. Not a bad evening -- as an AP, not as a once-every-couple-of-years attendee.