Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Doh! My bad. But, you have to admit, Uni has compromised most of their streetscapes with visual intrusions.
(Like that very convincing coaster ruining a pretty good looking set). :)
Most sets today have some sort of virtual element to them anyway. That track could easily be digitally removed from the camera's view if it was a real working studio set.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I still don't understand why everyone thinks Mymagic+ is a big conspiracy.

They were obviously very concerned with the fact that such a large amount of people found going to WDW extremely complicated and overwhelming, especially with kids, and MM+ is a consumer friendly way to streamline everything. I think it's very obviously a direct result to consumer demand, you'd have to be blind to not see that.

So what if they plan to increase per cap spending with it, BIG FREAKIN DEAL. It's a business, a business has to make their customers happy. And probably 99% or so of that business is the general public who is going to find it neat and not have a problem with it, not the 1% of their Guests who are posting on WDWmagic complaining about everything they do.

And someone called Iger one of the "three stooges." Remember that huge extremely successful mega company Michael Eisner built? Under Iger's leadership that company has literally DOUBLED their value in under 10 years....how can you call him a stooge? The only stooges here are you and I for sitting here behind a computer screen complaining, while people like Bob Iger are out there actually working and maximizing shareholder value (and making megabucks while at it).

How does MagicMinus improve the guest experience, Let's see a UI that befuddles even experienced IT people, inability to link premium admission media to MagicMinus, Webservers which hit overload at non-peak times.

Yes this system will certainly make enjoying WDW easier (for small values of easier)
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I still don't understand why everyone thinks Mymagic+ is a big conspiracy.

They were obviously very concerned with the fact that such a large amount of people found going to WDW extremely complicated and overwhelming, especially with kids, and MM+ is a consumer friendly way to streamline everything. I think it's very obviously a direct result to consumer demand, you'd have to be blind to not see that.

So what if they plan to increase per cap spending with it, BIG FREAKIN DEAL. It's a business, a business has to make their customers happy. And probably 99% or so of that business is the general public who is going to find it neat and not have a problem with it, not the 1% of their Guests who are posting on WDWmagic complaining about everything they do.

And someone called Iger one of the "three stooges." Remember that huge extremely successful mega company Michael Eisner built? Under Iger's leadership that company has literally DOUBLED their value in under 10 years....how can you call him a stooge? The only stooges here are you and I for sitting here behind a computer screen complaining, while people like Bob Iger are out there actually working and maximizing shareholder value (and making megabucks while at it).
Ill just leave this right here.


swandolphin_withfrance2008ww
by Mike Sperduto, on Flickr

What's wrong with that, it's perfectly accurate:

paris.jpg
 

xstech25

Well-Known Member
I can see how things look good in Burbank, California. The bottom line is better, because of year after year ticket price increases (they even say it themselves). The attendance they can see at Disneyland resort is looking good after spending some money to fix the step-son next to Disneyland. Since it is a business, I wonder why there is no investment in attractions at the 3 step-children in Florida. All the evidence points to attendance gains from new attraction experiences. I guess they like leaving money on the table for a competitor. Walt didn't like to do that.

*1023*

P.S. If you say something akin to, "Disney is a for profit business" I automatically lower my opinion of your post as you clearly think no one here knows that. Know your audience.

I am not saying everything Disney does or doesn't do is automatically good, sure i'd like to see new rides, who wouldn't? But I also think spending big bucks on bathrooms, meet and greets, and MM+ are also solid investments. Disney collects thousands of surveys a day, i'm pretty sure they "know their audience."

Regarding Walt, sure the parks would be a lot better if he was running them, but he is dead. Disney has developed their "parks business" into a zillion different directions [weddings, conferences, selling alcohol in the parks (something Walt refused to ever do). They also rake in huge dough from princess franchises, pin/vinylmation sales, etc, also things Walt probably would have found stupid. But the Walt Disney Company isn't judged by Walt anymore, its judged by the market, and those things are all huge cash cows. So what does that tell you?

Regarding the next poster that said the UI is bad and the system crashes when its overloaded. I am not good with this stuff by any means and found the user interface (assuming what that means) very easy. The website and mobile app gave me everything I needed on the homepage. Also technology problems can be identified and fixed, hence why they are doing voluntary tests. Just because it's starting out rough doesn't mean its going to stay that way forever.
 
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xstech25

Well-Known Member
And while were on the topic of Walt, when the Matterhorn was being built one of his executives asked him "won't it look strange being on Main Street or in Tomorrowland and seeing a big Swiss mountain?" And Walt said "It will be fine." I can't remember which executives memoir I read that in, but I think it applies to the Swan & Dolphin here that everyone seems to be complaining about :)
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
And while were on the topic of Walt, when the Matterhorn was being built one of his executives asked him "won't it look strange being on Main Street or in Tomorrowland and seeing a big Swiss mountain?" And Walt said "It will be fine." I can't remember which executives memoir I read that in, but I think it applies to the Swan & Dolphin here that everyone seems to be complaining about :)
I'm not really complaining about it, in fact, until the picture showed up, I never even noticed it. That picture of Soarin is another one. When they first built it I remember it standing out like that. I don't know how old the picture is, but I don't really see it anymore. It may still be there, but it blends enough that it doesn't jump out at me.
 

BryceM

Well-Known Member
Can someone explain to me why universals tickets online are more expensive than Disney'a tickets online for one day single park.
Not MK, which is the most expensive park in the Orlando area. But as of right now, I feel like it is justifiable. While I do adore Epcot, both IOA and USF definitely offer more than Epcot, DHS and DAK. If Disney started investing in these parks and fixing the majors issues that they have, then it I could see how it would be fair to price them the same as Islands of Adventure and Universal Studios.
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
I am not saying everything Disney does or doesn't do is automatically good, sure i'd like to see new rides, who wouldn't? But I also think spending big bucks on bathrooms, meet and greets, and MM+ are also solid investments. Disney collects thousands of surveys a day, i'm pretty sure they "know their audience."

Regarding Walt, sure the parks would be a lot better if he was running them, but he is dead. Disney has developed their "parks business" into a zillion different directions [weddings, conferences, selling alcohol in the parks (something Walt refused to ever do). They also rake in huge dough from princess franchises, pin/vinylmation sales, etc, also things Walt probably would have found stupid. But the Walt Disney Company isn't judged by Walt anymore, its judged by the market, and those things are all huge cash cows. So what does that tell you?

Regarding the next poster that said the UI is bad and the system crashes when its overloaded. I am not good with this stuff by any means and found the user interface (assuming what that means) very easy. The website and mobile app gave me everything I needed on the homepage. Also technology problems can be identified and fixed, hence why they are doing voluntary tests. Just because it's starting out rough doesn't mean its going to stay that way forever.

Okay...to address how out of context your responses were as opposed to the context of my post...

My reference to Walt was exactly what it was at face value. Walt didn't like to leave money on the table. He was a shrewd businessman later in life. I could speculate on what he would or would not be doing now, but that wasn't in the context of my post and as you pointed out, he's dead.

The "know your audience" comment was specifically for you. Sorry you missed that. It was contained within the same post script paragraph at the bottom of my post and that paragraph did not include the Walt Disney Company or any of it's subsidiaries. It also did not involve survey takers at the parks. In fact, it should have been clear to not consider the folks with whom you are engaging to be idiots.

Now I will address your thoughts on the market judging the performance of TWDC. I would say at least one concerned analyst exists and has made his opinion know. He recognized that Disney is not "growing" their theme parks in the same way that their down the street competitors are doing. He recognized that buying back stock may not be the best strategy considering the continuing investment outline down the street. He will not be the only one. No amount of spin can change the fact that park attendance is ultimately driven by creating new attractions.

Now I am addressing your thoughts that bathrooms, meet and greets, and MyMagicMinus are solid investments. While I am a big fan of having a toilet near by, I am certain that the over the top themeing of said toilet location could have been used more effectively elsewhere. In fact, it may have even given us a 3rd Dumbo spinner. A princess meet and greet has far less reaching appeal than a well themed, "nostalgic" dark ride it replaced. Finally, the MyMagicMinus is an investment whose return has yet to be judged as so many point out ad nauseam that it isn't fully implemented.

Addressing the "zillions" of directions you mentioned in your post, here are some tidbits. The Disneyland Hotel (owned by Wrather-Alvarez and then just Wrather until 1988), hosted many a wedding and even featured characters at these events. (There were also private weddings and events held in the park for money prior to Walt's passing in 1966). A planned (c. 1965) convention center at the hotel was delayed but finally completed in 1972 after Walt's death. During Walt's life, TWDC sold plenty of trinkets and souvenirs so I am not sure why you mentioned that.

I hope that helps to clarify my original post and answers some of your questions about when they got involved in what. Incidentally, Walt continually tried to acquire the Disneyland hotel through many means while he was alive. Oh, and I agree with you that I would like to see more real attractions too.

*1023*

P.S. Zillion is an undefined number so I had to work with what you wrote in your post.

EDITED for punctuation.
 
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englanddg

One Little Spark...
Regarding the next poster that said the UI is bad and the system crashes when its overloaded. I am not good with this stuff by any means and found the user interface (assuming what that means) very easy. The website and mobile app gave me everything I needed on the homepage. Also technology problems can be identified and fixed, hence why they are doing voluntary tests. Just because it's starting out rough doesn't mean its going to stay that way forever.

No, they are not doing "voluntary tests"...

The website isn't "hey, do you wanna use this new website to book your ADRs and trip or the old one". ALL GUESTS experience the new website, whether or not they have bands.

Whilst you can opt out of the bands, the RFID stuff still exists, as does the App and MDE. You still use the same system, but instead of bands with Bluetooth tracking features (that is the ONLY difference) you get an RFID enabled card.

MDE is already rolled out, the new ADR system is already rolled out, RFID readers at gates and in parks is largely rolled out. Bands and FP+ are a side system, meant to distract users from the larger impacts (well done to distract people from the larger infrastructure, I think, so kudos to whomever thought of marketing that).

As you said, technology problems can be identified and fixed...if there is a will to fix them. They never fixed them with their old sites...why would they fix them with their new ones? And, something none of us can say because we aren't privy...IF the original systems replacements (ADRs/Ticketing/Sales/Hotel POS/Other POS/Ticketing/etc) were designed in such a way to coordinate and allow them to be fixed, and there is a solid USEFUL documentation process involved. With MM+, I haven't seen this.

Here...I'll give you a real world example. I will use aliases because I can't really say who the actual "companies (yeah, we'll call them companies...but lets say they collect tax dollars...lets go with that)" are...

Lets say you build a Database. The Database needs to have something to identify each record...that's called a UID. The UID works at multiple levels in the DB to link records, and this is used to form relationships (I am not going to go on for paragraphs about how relational DBs work).

Well, lets say you pick a UID that isn't really unique...I dunno...like SSN. Then, years or decades down the road you want to merge this with another DB, which captures SSN, but has their own UID that they generated on their own.

Well, can't integrate (well). Why? Because you don't have UIDs in a true sense. (this is what I suspect they ran into with their hotel / ADR systems...the POS (Point of Sale, for those wondering) have been integrated for a very long time...)

Now, even worse, what if your DB doesn't have UIDs at all to tie to (common in many "purpose only" DBs developed in the 80s and 90s)...well, then your DB is wholly incompatible with integration, and must be re-developed. All while the proverbial "engine" is running (Guests still come and go).

I could go on and on about this...but, my point is this.

Disney is trying to integrate many disparate systems that were purchased (or outsourced or...I highly doubt...developed in house) at many different levels. To execs, they think...well, "there's an app for that", because they think that iTunes makes them technical geniuses. In reality, they have a VERY tall order for IT...and (as we've seen) an expensive one.

Now, could IT figure it out? Certainly. But, who should be the test subjects? Guests? Or should you invest in beta testing. Again, the same execs who think the fact they tapped their iPads a few times tonight to update to iOS 7 think...hum, this should be easy. Who needs alpha or beta testers? If it stinks, then IT obviously didn't do the job right. They say this without the faintest CLUE of the monumental task they have asked of IT.

All that being said, has Disney IT EVER on the go.com side been very good? Nope. The old website didn't work all that well, and the new one follows suit. The issue here is...YOU DIDN'T NEED THE OLD WEBSITE.

Disney is hanging it's hat with MM+ on the technology working flawlessly, which includes the clowns (yes, I think that's a good term) at go.com. All the while asking historically disparate systems to integrate on a level they were never intended or designed to do so, and not pumping (as they have found out) enough money into getting it to do so.

Some execs think "well, why not just farm it out to India or Romania"...well, dumbos (actually, that's an insult to dumbo), the reason is without a solid map of the business logic, you CAN'T do that, because outsourced programmers stink. In fact, all programmers stink if they either a) don't know what you want to accomplish or b) they don't know what YOU want. Most of the time execs assume that you can just say a few words to a programmer and they'll get it, but that's complete crap. Programmers will do EXACTLY what you ask them to do...passably. That is why they are good programmers. Because they think logically, in steps...like computers...like code.

And, if you don't hold their feet to the fire, they will pass you crap code. If you leave design up to them (since they don't understand your overarching business concept, since you were "too busy" to explain it to them) they won't design their systems to integrate...

Ugh, I need to end this rant here before I start to get ugly about it...
 
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tirian

Well-Known Member
The scales of almost everything are still "off"; and I was referring to Uni itself about the soundstages, not IOA.

Believe me, I'm not saying that Uni is a terrible place because of those two points. They're investing in the parks and constantly pushing for better attraction technology.

Disney is currently hyping bookends.

Are IOA's Port of Entry, Lost Continent, Seuss Landing, Jurassic Park or even Toon Lagoon/Marvel Super Hero Island made up of boxy soundstages? Or are you just referring to only Springfield and Production Central inside the Universal Studios park? I would say that what you said is VERY false when stating that Universal only builds soundstages, when nothing in IOA is themed around production. Yes, there are visible show buildings in IOA, but it is a very true theme park.[/
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I am not saying everything Disney does or doesn't do is automatically good, sure i'd like to see new rides, who wouldn't? But I also think spending big bucks on bathrooms, meet and greets, and MM+ are also solid investments. Disney collects thousands of surveys a day, i'm pretty sure they "know their audience."

Regarding Walt, sure the parks would be a lot better if he was running them, but he is dead. Disney has developed their "parks business" into a zillion different directions [weddings, conferences, selling alcohol in the parks (something Walt refused to ever do). They also rake in huge dough from princess franchises, pin/vinylmation sales, etc, also things Walt probably would have found stupid. But the Walt Disney Company isn't judged by Walt anymore, its judged by the market, and those things are all huge cash cows. So what does that tell you?

Regarding the next poster that said the UI is bad and the system crashes when its overloaded. I am not good with this stuff by any means and found the user interface (assuming what that means) very easy. The website and mobile app gave me everything I needed on the homepage. Also technology problems can be identified and fixed, hence why they are doing voluntary tests. Just because it's starting out rough doesn't mean its going to stay that way forever.


How much does TWDC pay you to shill for them?
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Now, since I said that, I suppose they'll spend millions with yp.com or other ripoffs.

Because they have no idea what they are doing.
 

1023

Provocateur, Rancanteur, Plaisanter, du Jour
The fact "weddings" planning was mentioned (something that is very hard to find online, even if you google it) I found that comment hilarious.

Yeah...well..I felt like if I didn't take the time to work through the comments and out of context comments, I was not being thorough in my reply.

Also, as you already know, I enjoyed your techno rant @englanddg .

*1023*
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
No, they are not doing "voluntary tests"...

The website isn't "hey, do you wanna use this new website to book your ADRs and trip or the old one". ALL GUESTS experience the new website, whether or not they have bands.

Whilst you can opt out of the bands, the RFID stuff still exists, as does the App and MDE. You still use the same system, but instead of bands with Bluetooth tracking features (that is the ONLY difference) you get an RFID enabled card.

MDE is already rolled out, the new ADR system is already rolled out, RFID readers at gates and in parks is largely rolled out. Bands and FP+ are a side system, meant to distract users from the larger impacts (well done to distract people from the larger infrastructure, I think, so kudos to whomever thought of marketing that).

As you said, technology problems can be identified and fixed...if there is a will to fix them. They never fixed them with their old sites...why would they fix them with their new ones? And, something none of us can say because we aren't privy...IF the original systems replacements (ADRs/Ticketing/Sales/Hotel POS/Other POS/Ticketing/etc) were designed in such a way to coordinate and allow them to be fixed, and there is a solid USEFUL documentation process involved. With MM+, I haven't seen this.

Here...I'll give you a real world example. I will use aliases because I can't really say who the actual "companies (yeah, we'll call them companies...but lets say they collect tax dollars...lets go with that)" are...

Lets say you build a Database. The Database needs to have something to identify each record...that's called a UID. The UID works at multiple levels in the DB to link records, and this is used to form relationships (I am not going to go on for paragraphs about how relational DBs work).

Well, lets say you pick a UID that isn't really unique...I dunno...like SSN. Then, years or decades down the road you want to merge this with another DB, which captures SSN, but has their own UID that they generated on their own.

Well, can't integrate (well). Why? Because you don't have UIDs in a true sense. (this is what I suspect they ran into with their hotel / ADR systems...the POS (Point of Sale, for those wondering) have been integrated for a very long time...)

Now, even worse, what if your DB doesn't have UIDs at all to tie to (common in many "purpose only" DBs developed in the 80s and 90s)...well, then your DB is wholly incompatible with integration, and must be re-developed. All while the proverbial "engine" is running (Guests still come and go).

I could go on and on about this...but, my point is this.

Disney is trying to integrate many disparate systems that were purchased (or outsourced or...I highly doubt...developed in house) at many different levels. To execs, they think...well, "there's an app for that", because they think that iTunes makes them technical geniuses. In reality, they have a VERY tall order for IT...and (as we've seen) an expensive one.

Now, could IT figure it out? Certainly. But, who should be the test subjects? Guests? Or should you invest in beta testing. Again, the same execs who think the fact they tapped their iPads a few times tonight to update to iOS 7 think...hum, this should be easy. Who needs alpha or beta testers? If it stinks, then IT obviously didn't do the job right. They say this without the faintest CLUE of the monumental task they have asked of IT.

All that being said, has Disney IT EVER on the go.com side been very good? Nope. The old website didn't work all that well, and the new one follows suit. The issue here is...YOU DIDN'T NEED THE OLD WEBSITE.

Disney is hanging it's hat with MM+ on the technology working flawlessly, which includes the clowns (yes, I think that's a good term) at go.com. All the while asking historically disparate systems to integrate on a level they were never intended or designed to do so, and not pumping (as they have found out) enough money into getting it to do so.

Some execs think "well, why not just farm it out to India or Romania"...well, dumbos (actually, that's an insult to dumbo), the reason is without a solid map of the business logic, you CAN'T do that, because outsourced programmers stink. In fact, all programmers stink if they either a) don't know what you want to accomplish or b) they don't know what YOU want. Most of the time execs assume that you can just say a few words to a programmer and they'll get it, but that's complete crap. Programmers will do EXACTLY what you ask them to do...passably. That is why they are good programmers. Because they think logically, in steps...like computers...like code.

And, if you don't hold their feet to the fire, they will pass you crap code. If you leave design up to them (since they don't understand your overarching business concept, since you were "too busy" to explain it to them) they won't design their systems to integrate...

Ugh, I need to end this rant here before I start to get ugly about it...


Exactly, The UID which seems to be name and date because once Jim Smith III enters the park his dad Jim Smith II can't enter because MDE says he's already there.

The website which CRAWLS even though my link to the internet is 100 mb symmetric fiber PON., Strange how Amazon can provision sufficient resources to handle e-commerce but Disney can't even push enough bits for a static web page.

Yeah THOSE technical issues

It's late and I'm tired and I'm especially tired of the the TWDC shills who keep telling us that black is white and up is down and how Disney has completed so many attractions for those needing a potty break.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Exactly, The UID which seems to be name and date because once Jim Smith III enters the park his dad Jim Smith II can't enter because MDE says he's already there.

The website which CRAWLS even though my link to the internet is 100 mb symmetric fiber PON., Strange how Amazon can provision sufficient resources to handle e-commerce but Disney can't even push enough bits for a static web page.

Yeah THOSE technical issues

It's late and I'm tired and I'm especially tired of the the TWDC shills who keep telling us that black is white and up is down and how Disney has completed so many attractions for those needing a potty break.
Well, the fact he tried to use his room mug makes me upset.

So, lets spend millions to have a system that tellls people when they can use their room mugs.

All the while, lets ignore what makes people spend money. ing lazy management.

Welcome to the new Disney.
 

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