Disney and Universal: Two very different paths

[ford91exploder]

I think you can rest assured that no one wants to buy WDW at this time. They might take it for free though. Either way, it is a plus for the rest of us for the time being.

Well if the balance sheets are accurate P&R throws off 2.4 Billion annually in profit for TWDC, However that pales in comparison to the cable network holdings which generate 40 billion in cash flow with CAPEX in the hundreds of millions,

The movie side of the house is underwater,

So it would seem Disney is happier with being a IP holding company and they would dearly love to unload P&R to someone like OLC who would run parks under license.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

If your implications are that the popular attractions are "thrill rides" means that thrill rides aren't very thrilling. Disney has gone to the edge of the envelope making rides that seem thrilling, but are not at all what everyone else has in mind. What they have and to the limit that they have done it, should be the extreme that one would ever find there.

But for the sake of argument lets look at the popular attractions are...

MK... The three mountains. Space, Splash and Big Thunder. Kid rides in a thrill ride park.
Epcot... Soarin... heart stopper, that one.
Mission: Space... somewhat intense (orange) but thrill ride? Don't see it.
Test Track... Wow, 65 miles an hour for about 12 seconds. I went faster then that on the access road coming into WDW.
DHS... RcRC and ToT. I'll give you those two, but even then unless they are out in the open air, reduced thrill.
DAK... Dead Yeti Mountain... OK, but mild by comparison. Dinosaur... Yawn!

Now by my description it would almost sound like a Disney negative. It is not, that is how Disney should be. On the edge but not over it.

Many of those things are "popular" within a specific grouping. If you have 10 attractions and 1000 people per day and one of those attractions is a "thrill ride", one may see 200 people per day at that ride. However, 800 people found the others overall more popular. A theme park is not an individual ride it is a combination of many, but, it must stay with it's target grouping to be able know what to plan and what it should be. It would be tempting to look at the individual attraction and think ...wow... look how many people went to that one. If we had 10 of those we would have had 2000 people here. That, isn't how it works, however, and in the meantime you have changed your entire mission.

Thanks for the verbose answer but it would have helped if it was related to the original post I responded to. But which is it, it works because its in the open air or its crap because of the lack of themeing. Personally I've yet to ride a theme, eye candy doesnt make a bad ride good. If we were to extend your (il)logic then Universals thrill rides are child like when compared to most six flags and the Stratosphere in Vegas after all the best coaster in Orlando is in a water park. You can choose to dress it up any way you want but Disney has no interest in developing rides for the older age groups, focusing on carny rides with some plastic bricks is much cheaper and lower cost to run in the longer term.

And your edge must be different from mine.

 

[lebeau]

Gosh, that's a depressing list. If the 90s were the Disney decade, that should be the Disappointing Decade.

Seriously. You have to get 5 items in before you get to a single ride and then it's Pooh (which replaced Toad). The first brand new ride is the Magic Carpets spinner.

Let's ignore everything Universal built other than The Mummy but try to give Disney credit for lots of DVC.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would go a step further and say 1 attraction per park every other year. With 4 parks, that means each year there would be ~2 new attractions a year most years. But the lack of new stuff in recent years at WDW -- and in the near future -- is not acceptable.

2 new major rides a year is too aggressive. I know we want it, but its not practical. At that pace in 10 years WDW would have added almost as many rides as the 3 parks not called Magic Kingdom currently have. 2 new "attractions" a year is about the pace they have been on if you count things like Jack Sparow at DHS and the Princess hall at MK. In 2012 and 2013 combined they will have added a lot more than 4 "attractions", just not the e-ticket ones people want.

For me I'd be OK if the slow pace of brand new adds continued if they committed to spending money on refurbs and show quality. They should pick a park each year and clean up all of the known issues. They started with MK this year. Make 2014 the EPCOT year and so on.

 

[lebeau]

Disney needs to focus on removing, replacing, and updating things that are out of date. There is no lack of things to do at WDW, but attractions like Great Movie Ride, Imagination/EO, Little Mermaid show, etc all are way outdated. Star Tours went from being outdated and corny and now it's an awesome ride.

Yes, instead of building new attractions, Disney really needs to find a way to put Jack Sparrow in the Great Movie Ride. That will fix everything.

 

[WildcatDen]

Competition? I do not feel it is even that at this point.

Yup, .

 

[lebeau]

So jt is literally talking to himself now?

 

[ford91exploder]

2 new major rides a year is too aggressive. I know we want it, but its not practical. At that pace in 10 years WDW would have added almost as many rides as the 3 parks not called Magic Kingdom currently have. 2 new "attractions" a year is about the pace they have been on if you count things like Jack Sparow at DHS and the Princess hall at MK. In 2012 and 2013 combined they will have added a lot more than 4 "attractions", just not the e-ticket ones people want.

For me I'd be OK if the slow pace of brand new adds continued if they committed to spending money on refurbs and show quality. They should pick a park each year and clean up all of the known issues. They started with MK this year. Make 2014 the EPCOT year and so on.

If they cleaned up the maintenance issues and did say a great E-ticket ride every 3-4 years for the world as a whole I think most of us would be happy, Along with a smaller attraction (show, small dark ride etc) in each park say every 18 months or so. The dependence upon meet-n-grope's is one of the worst aspects of the culture of abandonment.

Now in many cases meet-n-grope's are appropriate, DMIL loves Mary Poppins in EPCOT and lets face it when we were all small fry having Mickey come up and greet us was worth the entire trip.

That being said the Parks were intended for all ages, There was a post with a link to Tokyo Disney and their 20K Leagues attraction, IF OLC can build THAT in Tokyo which is one of THE MOST EXPENSIVE CITIES IN THE WORLD - Surely WDI can build something on the same order in Orlando which is one of the CHEAPEST cities in the world.

Mysterious Island has everything we have been asking for, Immersive theme and story, UNIQUE Dining and Unique Merchandise and amazingly the line is on the order of hours even for FP but it's good enough so people wait.

Finally Disney DOES need to cater more to the teen market, Disney has the small fry locked up, They need things which are attractive to Teens, Mysterious Island would be a good start, Door Coaster, a Villians land more interactive rides,

Take a look at the 'Sum of All Thrills' Teens lined up for hours to design own coaster more of this would help the teen demographic.

 

[danlb_2000]

So jt is literally talking to himself now?

He has to, almost everyone else has him on ignore.

 

[ToTBellHop]

So jt is literally talking to himself now?

Who?

 

[Goofyernmost]

Thanks for the verbose answer but it would have helped if it was related to the original post I responded to. But which is it, it works because its in the open air or its crap because of the lack of themeing. Personally I've yet to ride a theme, eye candy doesnt make a bad ride good. If we were to extend your (il)logic then Universals thrill rides are child like when compared to most six flags and the Stratosphere in Vegas after all the best coaster in Orlando is in a water park. You can choose to dress it up any way you want but Disney has no interest in developing rides for the older age groups, focusing on carny rides with some plastic bricks is much cheaper and lower cost to run in the longer term.

And your edge must be different from mine.

I apologize for the verbose response to a remark I thought was in response to something apparently different. Didn't know. It's tough to go back and skim through over 200 posts to see where your comment might fit in. I would have to think that your being just a tad more verbose might have made it clear what you were referring too.

I am not "dressing anything up" because I can only hope that Disney has no interest in developing rides for the older age group only. I never will hope for that. Disney has a family park image and background and it should stay with that focus. That is its place and function. Those plastic bricks and "carny" rides are what made Disney the power that it is so I fail to see what is bad about that. Anyway sorry about the verbosity, I will surely try to be more vague in the future.

 

[WDWDad13]

Yes, instead of building new attractions, Disney really needs to find a way to put Jack Sparrow in the Great Movie Ride. That will fix everything.

be careful what you wish for... it might be better than the current state

 

[bhg469]

Yes, instead of building new attractions, Disney really needs to find a way to put Jack Sparrow in the Great Movie Ride. That will fix everything.

While i wouldnt go that far, that ride is beyond deserving of a refresh. There are several scenes that can be gutted for sure.

 

[willtravel]

I'd have to agree but is it the ship changing course or is it sprucing up for sale or outside investment is the question.

Ya know, it's pretty sad when WDW DOES DO something, and we try to figure out WHY they are doing it.........

 

[willtravel]

If they cleaned up the maintenance issues and did say a great E-ticket ride every 3-4 years for the world as a whole I think most of us would be happy, Along with a smaller attraction (show, small dark ride etc) in each park say every 18 months or so. The dependence upon meet-n-grope's is one of the worst aspects of the culture of abandonment.

Now in many cases meet-n-grope's are appropriate, DMIL loves Mary Poppins in EPCOT and lets face it when we were all small fry having Mickey come up and greet us was worth the entire trip.

That being said the Parks were intended for all ages, There was a post with a link to Tokyo Disney and their 20K Leagues attraction, IF OLC can build THAT in Tokyo which is one of THE MOST EXPENSIVE CITIES IN THE WORLD - Surely WDI can build something on the same order in Orlando which is one of the CHEAPEST cities in the world.

Mysterious Island has everything we have been asking for, Immersive theme and story, UNIQUE Dining and Unique Merchandise and amazingly the line is on the order of hours even for FP but it's good enough so people wait.

Finally Disney DOES need to cater more to the teen market, Disney has the small fry locked up, They need things which are attractive to Teens, Mysterious Island would be a good start, Door Coaster, a Villians land more interactive rides,

Take a look at the 'Sum of All Thrills' Teens lined up for hours to design own coaster more of this would help the teen demographic.

I don't know.... If they were to build a new ride I think we would be happy. But to take down a ride and put up something new? That's where the arguments start. We all have our pet attractions.

 

[wdisney9000]

While i wouldnt go that far, that ride is beyond deserving of a refresh. There are several scenes that can be gutted for sure.

At the very least they could put in CM's who have some type of acting skills. It gets worse every time we visit. In May, we had a british girl with a thick accent as the mobster who hijacks the car. Seriously! It was awful. Wish I had recorded it. Just last week we had a kid who ran through the script in a monotone voice and it was like one long sentence every time he spoke. As old as the ride is, good acting by the CM's can make it more enjoyable. And fix the huge bubble/tear in the sunset behind John Wayne. It looks awful.

 

[ford91exploder]

I don't know.... If they were to build a new ride I think we would be happy. But to take down a ride and put up something new? That's where the arguments start. We all have our pet attractions.

I was thinking on the order of NEW rides, Not closing existing attractions unless there is a clear and compelling reason to close and example of this would be the Peoplemover in DL was closed because of ADA and that version of Peoplemover could not be retrofitted to be ADA compliant it would need to be rebuilt from ground up.

Not 20K, M:S replacing Horizons, or Journey into Imagination rev 2.0, or Tiki Room new management ride replacements.

 

[ford91exploder]

At the very least they could put in CM's who have some type of acting skills. It gets worse every time we visit. In May, we had a british girl with a thick accent as the mobster who hijacks the car. Seriously! It was awful. Wish I had recorded it. Just last week we had a kid who ran through the script in a monotone voice and it was like one long sentence every time he spoke. As old as the ride is, good acting by the CM's can make it more enjoyable. And fix the huge bubble/tear in the sunset behind John Wayne. It looks awful.

That's bad show - in this case the CM is REALLY a CAST MEMBER and needs to be able to ACT the part, they are not simply ride operators.

 

[flynnibus]

Struggling? It's 2nd, behind Orlando. Vegas comes behind Chicago in conventions.

NY/CHI/SF are avoided by many due to the union 'overhead'...

 

[lebeau]

While i wouldnt go that far, that ride is beyond deserving of a refresh. There are several scenes that can be gutted for sure.

I agree it needs a refresh. I can't think of a single movie I would want to see swapped out for something more recent which is usually what people are requesting when they say such things. Putting in some Disney movie from the last 5 years would be a disaster.