would you consider the emoji movie a meme movie? I know I do. And that was 2017. So it still not a one off in my opinion. Meme movies might be the new parody movies. You have some great ones but most were just not good. But I really don't see it as a threat to Hollywood.
Yes I would consider the emoji movie to be a meme movie, a very unsuccessful one. I think you mistake what I mean by one-off, I don't mean that an attempt didn't happen before. I'm saying that this isn't going to just be a one and done type of situation where Hollywood finds some moderate success with a meme movie and stops. And that is the threat I think there is to Hollywood, if they find another and another and so on that will end up being the majority of content they create. Because as we know Hollywood likes repeatable successes, no matter what it is, until the grind it into the ground. Movie variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood, as you mentioned your Minecraft plot example on the reuse of plots.
I compare video game movies/shows to comic book movies/shows. In my opinion, comic book movies were a joke mostly, outside of a few like Superman 78 and batman 89... But the first X-Men really figured it out. Then came spiderman proved it wasn't just a one off. You still had some poop, but it kept getting more reliable.
That's starting to happen now in my opinion with video games. We've had a lot of garbage through the years. With only a handful of passable content. Now we are seeing some success. Mario, sonic, fallout... All really good. In my humble opinion, video games are the new novels or kids books to mine for content. Sure there will still be some slop that does well. But we've seen that in just about all types of film. There's great content to be had. It just needs to be done correctly. Easier said than done I know.
Its just too bad, as I mentioned above, that variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood. Its sort of why I hope they don't find the next successful meme movie, let it remain just with the Minecraft franchise.
Yes I would consider the emoji movie to be a meme movie, a very unsuccessful one. I think you mistake what I mean by one-off, I don't mean that an attempt didn't happen before. I'm saying that this isn't going to just be a one and done type of situation where Hollywood finds some moderate success with a meme movie and stops. And that is the threat I think there is to Hollywood, if they find another and another and so on that will end up being the majority of content they create. Because as we know Hollywood likes repeatable successes, no matter what it is, until the grind it into the ground. Movie variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood, as you mentioned your Minecraft plot example on the reuse of plots.
Its just too bad, as I mentioned above, that variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood. Its sort of why I hope they don't find the next successful meme movie, let it remain just with the Minecraft franchise.
Its just too bad, as I mentioned above, that variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood. Its sort of why I hope they don't find the next successful meme movie, let it remain just with the Minecraft franchise.
Minecraft (based on trailers, haven’t seen it) feels like it harkens back to the zeitgeist of some goofy, over the top 80s / early 90s movie to me. Things like Wayne’s World or Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure - a lot of nods to the in-jokes / youth culture of the time and silly, low stakes fun.
That can be a great time, but that’s just never been animated Disney’s thing, that I can remember. I hope they look to things like the success of The Descendants, or maybe getting into anime, when looking at potential new directions.
Yes I would consider the emoji movie to be a meme movie, a very unsuccessful one. I think you mistake what I mean by one-off, I don't mean that an attempt didn't happen before. I'm saying that this isn't going to just be a one and done type of situation where Hollywood finds some moderate success with a meme movie and stops. And that is the threat I think there is to Hollywood, if they find another and another and so on that will end up being the majority of content they create. Because as we know Hollywood likes repeatable successes, no matter what it is, until the grind it into the ground. Movie variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood, as you mentioned your Minecraft plot example on the reuse of plots.
Its just too bad, as I mentioned above, that variety has become the kryptonite for Hollywood. Its sort of why I hope they don't find the next successful meme movie, let it remain just with the Minecraft franchise.
Let's consider what we mean by "meme movie." I'm not exactly sure if there's a clearly agreed upon definition. Is it a movie that is responding to internet trends and viral images? If that's what a "meme movie" is, then I don't think we have much to fear.
Memes obviously refer to the images that largely feature text, but they can also refer to broader trends and jokes. Memes can often be difficult to decode and commercialize. Remarkably, they emerge organically without the help of media institutions. This means that memes can be offensive, absurd, arcane, or are only used in rare circumstances. Other times, internet memes are quite self evident and everyone from a child to a grandparent can engage with them.
There is a tension with memes. Some memes are strengthened when corporations use them, while other memes are ruined when corporation tries to deploy them. Critics of corporations using certain memes respond in a similar way as locals seeing a beloved restaurant be recognized in a national guidebook. Once tourists come, it no longer belongs to the locals anymore and they migrate elsewhere. The flip side is that corporate recognization can almost feel like the ultimate validation. What was once a joke on the internet is now recognized by professional institutions.
High profile examples of internet memes influencing Disney projects in recent years include Obi-Wan Kenobi saying "hello there" in his titular show, "Never Gonna Give You Up" in Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Tobey Maguire complaining about back pain in No Way Home. These are short easter eggs that most people probably wouldn't have thought were significant (well, the Never Gonna Give You Up was more in your face). Certain figures are in tune enough with internet memes that they can reference them effectively. I haven't seen Deadpool and Wolverine, but I believe Ryan Reynolds effectively deployed multiple cultural references that internet users would find familiar.
I'd argue cinematic references to memes are actually a continuation of a phenomenon that already existed. As @DisneyHead123 just opined above:
Minecraft (based on trailers, haven’t seen it) feels like it harkens back to the zeitgeist of some goofy, over the top 80s / early 90s movie to me. Things like Wayne’s World or Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure - a lot of nods to the in-jokes / youth culture of the time and silly, low stakes fun.
I think this is an astute observation. Every era has had emergent jokes, trends, and preferences. In this way, meme culture is largely a continuation of something that already existed. I do think the internet turbocharges the process of meme creation and dispersal. Still, it's not as much of a divorce from the past as some might think. If a "meme movie" is simply a film responding to internet trends and preferences, then I think we can expect more meme movies—like there have been for decades!
Let's consider the other possible definition of a "meme movie." Instead of responding to a meme, this is a movie that becomes a meme or generates memes. If anything, the Minecraft Movie is a meme movie in this way. Yes, the Minecraft Movie does respond to internet culture, but it also has captured the Internet's imagination in a remarkable way. People debated about the choice of live action, laughed about Jack Black being Steve, wondered if the film would be good, etc. The odious trends that have emerged like screaming about a "Chicken Jockey" were not planned by Warner Bros. corporate. It was the internet that created this new trend or meme.
This all points to the elephant in the room. Corporations cannot control when a movie becomes a meme! There are ways they can influence internet trends and pay off influencers, but ultimately the Internet is the arbiter. The most likely reaction will be apathy. The internet is likely to simply ignore your corporate entreaties as insincere and or uncool. If you do provoke internet interest, there's a very good chance that you become a joke and are humiliated. The Cats Movie or the Emoji Movie are examples of this catastrophe. Then there are the movies that genuinely become the source of internet memes and make lots of money. Barbie is an example of this. It was absurd and bizarre, but that's why it resonated with the Internet.
Consider the Star Wars prequels and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. These are some of the most memed films of all time. They were created in era where social media was still nascent or cumbersome. Yet, these films are used by young people everyday to communicate online and even face to face. They are a cultural reference that everyone can return to. In this case, both of these franchises have benefited from being memes.
By contrast, another more recent movie actually found itself suffering an onslaught by memes. Madame Web became the source of endless internet mockery when trailers first emerged. This is the double-edged sword of internet meme culture. You can find your projects elevated by memes. You can also find yourself humiliated by memes.
Hollywood would be wise to tread carefully. What the Internet likes in one moment might suddenly change in an instant. If this is what a "meme movie" is, the vast majority will fail and Hollywood will learn its lesson. You can't force a meme!
Let's consider what we mean by "meme movie." I'm not exactly sure if there's a clearly agreed upon definition. Is it a movie that is responding to internet trends and viral images? If that's what a "meme movie" is, then I don't think we have much to fear.
Memes obviously refer to the images that largely feature text, but they can also refer to broader trends and jokes. Memes can often be difficult to decode and commercialize. Remarkably, they emerge organically without the help of media institutions. This means that memes can be offensive, absurd, arcane, or are only used in rare circumstances. Other times, internet memes are quite self evident and everyone from a child to a grandparent can engage with them.
There is a tension with memes. Some memes are strengthened when corporations use them, while other memes are ruined when corporation tries to deploy them. Critics of corporations using certain memes respond in a similar way as locals seeing a beloved restaurant be recognized in a national guidebook. Once tourists come, it no longer belongs to the locals anymore and they migrate elsewhere. The flip side is that corporate recognization can almost feel like the ultimate validation. What was once a joke on the internet is now recognized by professional institutions.
High profile examples of internet memes influencing Disney projects in recent years include Obi-Wan Kenobi saying "hello there" in his titular show, "Never Gonna Give You Up" in Ralph Breaks the Internet, and Tobey Maguire complaining about back pain in No Way Home. These are short easter eggs that most people probably wouldn't have thought were significant (well, the Never Gonna Give You Up was more in your face). Certain figures are in tune enough with internet memes that they can reference them effectively. I haven't seen Deadpool and Wolverine, but I believe Ryan Reynolds effectively deployed multiple cultural references that internet users would find familiar.
I'd argue cinematic references to memes are actually a continuation of a phenomenon that already existed. As @DisneyHead123 just opined above:
I think this is an astute observation. Every era has had emergent jokes, trends, and preferences. In this way, meme culture is largely a continuation of something that already existed. I do think the internet turbocharges the process of meme creation and dispersal. Still, it's not as much of a divorce from the past as some might think. If a "meme movie" is simply a film responding to internet trends and preferences, then I think we can expect more meme movies—like there have been for decades!
Let's consider the other possible definition of a "meme movie." Instead of responding to a meme, this is a movie that becomes a meme or generates memes. If anything, the Minecraft Movie is a meme movie in this way. Yes, the Minecraft Movie does respond to internet culture, but it also has captured the Internet's imagination in a remarkable way. People debated about the choice of live action, laughed about Jack Black being Steve, wondered if the film would be good, etc. The odious trends that have emerged like screaming about a "Chicken Jockey" were not planned by Warner Bros. corporate. It was the internet that created this new trend or meme.
This all points to the elephant in the room. Corporations cannot control when a movie becomes a meme! There are ways they can influence internet trends and pay off influencers, but ultimately the Internet is the arbiter. The most likely reaction will be apathy. The internet is likely to simply ignore your corporate entreaties as insincere and or uncool. If you do provoke internet interest, there's a very good chance that you become a joke and are humiliated. The Cats Movie or the Meme Movie are examples of this catastrophe. Then there are the movies that genuinely become the source of internet memes and make lots of money. Barbie is an example of this. It was absurd and bizarre, but that's why it resonated with the Internet.
Consider the Star Wars prequels and the Lord of the Rings trilogy. These are some of the most memed films of all time. They were created in era where social media was still nascent or cumbersome. Yet, these films are used by young people everyday to communicate online and even face to face. They are a cultural reference that everyone can return to. In this case, both of these franchises have benefited from being memes.
By contrast, another more recent movie actually found itself suffering an onslaught by memes. Madame Web became the source of endless internet mockery when trailers first emerged. This is the double-edged sword of internet meme culture. You can find your projects elevated by memes. You can also find yourself humiliated by memes.
Hollywood would be wise to tread carefully. What the Internet likes in one moment might suddenly change in an instant. If this is what a "meme movie" is, the vast majority will fail and Hollywood will learn its lesson. You can't force a meme!
By meme movie, at least I mean, is a movie full of internet joke references added only for the lolz and nothing more, ie no real substance. Chicken jockey is a perfect example, as not only was it put into the movie just for the meme reference it in itself became a meme due to the theater antics of the movie goers.
So to expand on your example, not sure why they were put into spoiler tags as all are old by now, but if Sony decided to do a Morbius movie based around "It's Morbin Time" and other Morbius memes that spawned from that, that is a meme movie.
Maybe others want to expand upon its definition, and I'm fine with that. I'll happily incorporate that into my use of the term.
Arrrgh! Emoji Movie isn’t a “meme movie.” Neither is Airplane or Battleship. A meme movie isn’t a stupid or frivolous movie or one based on toys or video games. It’s something new. Its definition is found less in the content of the film itself (to this point) then in the way the audience interacts with the film. It depends on a generational shift in how media is consumed, a shift occasioned by social media and Tik Tok and the like. Audiences’ connection to a meme movie is predicated not on storytelling or emotional involvement but in recognition. A true meme movie tailored to this response could be a stream of images or five-second videos devoid of theme, arc, or story - a shared social media feed.
I am not kvetching about Sonic or Top Secret!, I am worrying about a seismic shift in how media is consumed. We are seeing measurable fallout from this in schools - it’s a real thing. Minecraft is the filmic manifestation. Not every film will chase the trend, but if audiences alter the way they engage with media, Hollywood will rush to meet them where they are.
Not sure how others look, but our Minecraft display at Walmart was barren. Maybe 1-2 stuffed animals left, a bunch of lego sets gone, and almost all the other toys gone.
As for this idea that it's so awful for films and whatnot, eh, whatever. If stupid fun movies become the new norm, I'm good. But I doubt this is some huge shift either. It's not like this a Frozen.
Not sure how others look, but our Minecraft display at Walmart was barren. Maybe 1-2 stuffed animals left, a bunch of lego sets gone, and almost all the other toys gone.
As for this idea that it's so awful for films and whatnot, eh, whatever. If stupid fun movies become the new norm, I'm good. But I doubt this is some huge shift either. It's not like this a Frozen.
Minecraft had a ridiculous large built in and enduring fandom. On the spectrum of video games, it is far more creatively geared than most. The film is made by a good creative team with successful works under its belt, with ridiculously likeable stars that know how to market a film virally.
Claiming its success will usher in “meme movies” is highly reductive in terms of the popularity of this IP and diminishes how it has unique characteristics that are far from replicable.
Minecraft had a ridiculous large built in and enduring fandom. On the spectrum of video games, it is far more creatively geared than most. The film is made by a good creative team with successful works under its belt, with ridiculously likeable stars that know how to market a film virally.
Claiming its success will usher in “meme movies” is highly reductive in terms of the popularity of this IP and diminishes how it has unique characteristics that are far from replicable.
Possibly. It’s entirely possible I’m being alarmist.
But I think you need to look at the reaction the way studio executives- who are very stupid sometimes - are going to look at it. We’ll see imitators. What they will look like and whether they will be a momentary blip or a substantive shift - those are fair questions.
You also have to consider the reaction in terms of larger trends in media consumption and how those often stupid execs themselves understand changes in media consumption.
It is at least possible that this is a turning point.
People are getting things backwards; I can find no evidence Chicken Jockey was a meme BEFORE the movie. Yes, there are baby dead creatures that you can rarely find riding chickens in the game, that's why it's in the movie, but it's not anything special other than being odd and rare (which is common for Minecraft), there's no mention online of it being a thing to freak out over it. Know Your Meme, specifically meant to chronicle memes, places its origins in the movie and the lead up to the movie. The same is true for "I am Steve" and "Flint and steel". People made them memes when the trailers and movie came out, they were already in the film without knowing that would be a reaction.
The only mention I can find of them including a meme that existed prior to the movie is that Jack Black saying he "yearned for the mines" as a kid is referencing a tweet joking we shouldn't have child labor laws because clearly Minecraft proves children like mining.
Also, this isn't a random film that struck gold based on being very memey, it's standing on the IP of one of the most successful video games of all time. I'm sure the memes boosted it, but what're companies supposed to get out of that? "Hey, if the movie is stupid, we can maybe possibly get 900 million instead of 850 million so long as we have an IP that's both already wildly successful and has a tone that doesn't blatantly clash with the idea, while risking turning people off because of the movie being bad"?
People are also missing something very, very important and that is that trying to predict/intentionally invoke the crap is largely impossible. Why the hell is the Chicken Jockey a meme? I don't know, you don't either, and the people who made it probably don't. It's amusingly stupid, yeah, but so is tons of other stuff in movies. Why did none of the stupid crap in Sonic 3 spark this crud? Edit: Further poking indicates it's meant to be ironic enjoyment of something stupid; again, good luck trying to invoke that.
This stuff is entirely up to the whims of a bunch of mind-fried teens and young adults. They're as predictable as toddlers. Movie companies can't pick it, so they can't follow it and so can't cash in on it.
Right now a bunch of executives are ordering a bunch of marketing people to try and engineer this crap and it's not going to work, just like the Dark Universe and Hanna Barbara Cinematic Universe didn't work (that trend had a logical base and they still failed), or like how none of the super bad movies the internet takes to mocking for a month stick around like The Room.
If there's any movie to worry about, it would be Shrek 5; Shrek has been a meme for a long time already and the franchise allows for that stupid tone. But if they lean on that they run the risk of ruining the joke, and frankly no one should be going in there expecting a halfway decent film anyway. Anyone going to see Shrek 5 deserves to get popcorn thrown at their heads by screaming crowds.
