Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[BlakeW39]

Condemning something you’ve never even seen as inherently bad.

It sounds strong when you label it with emotionally charged language like "condemned," but let me ask you a counter question. Are you capable of identifying a bad product before you purchase it?

 

[LittleBuford]

It sounds strong when you label it with emotionally charged language like "condemned,"

Then I’m happy to change my wording: “Describing something you’ve never even seen as inherently bad.” It doesn’t change my point at all.

Are you capable of identifying a bad product before you purchase it?

I’m capable of identifying products that aren’t to my taste. Again, that doesn’t make them bad, especially if multiple people to whom they do appeal have rated them highly.

 

[BlakeW39]

Then I’m happy to change my wording: “Describing something you’ve never even seen as inherently bad.” It doesn’t change my point at all.

But what's your point? Are you telling me that I have strong opinions on TLM, or that it just sounds like I do?

I’m capable of identifying products that aren’t to my taste. Again, that doesn’t make them bad, especially if multiple people to whom they do appeal have rated them highly.

Sure, but are you capable of judging a product's quality before you purchase it? Like if I offer you a random stick from my backyard, will you just be like, "meh it's not to my taste, but I need to see it before I know it's a bad product."

 

[LittleBuford]

But what's your point?

That your wish to see the remakes fail is based on a strong prejudgement that they are inherently bad rather than on a case-by-case assessment of a given film’s quality, contrary to what you implied in the post of yours that I first quoted.

Sure, but are you capable of judging a product's quality before you purchase it?

Not if the product actually has to be used—or in this case viewed—to be assessed.

 

[BlakeW39]

That your wish to see the remakes fail is based on a strong prejudgement that they are inherently bad rather than on a case-by-case assessment of a given film’s quality, contrary to what you implied in the post of yours that I first quoted.

That's... sorta kinda fair actually.... but it doesn't contradict anything I said previously. My opinion is that the remakes are inherently bad products. They don't bring enough new to the table in order to justify their own existence. They are quite literally remakes of other films Disney has made in the past. As a concept that is just stupid and the remakes are obviously creatively cheap cashgrabs. TLM is a remake, and therefore possesses all of the aforementioned charactersitics which I believe make the remakes bad products. Now maybe my wording is flawed... as a movie I won't say it's bad. But as a product I maintain that the remakes are creatively cheap and I wish Disney didn't make them, hence why I want them to fail financially.

 

[LittleBuford]

That's... sorta kinda fair actually.... but it doesn't contradict anything I said previously. My opinion is that the remakes are inherently bad products. They don't bring enough new to the table in order to justify their own existence. They are quite literally remakes of other films Disney has made in the past. As a concept that is just stupid and the remakes are obviously creatively cheap cashgrabs. TLM is a remake, and therefore possesses all of the aforementioned charactersitics which I believe make the remakes bad products. Now maybe my wording is flawed... as a movie I won't say it's bad. But as a product I maintain that the remakes are creatively cheap and I wish Disney didn't make them, hence why I want them to fail financially.

You’re absolutely free to hold that opinion. I was just trying to point out the inaccuracy of your earlier framing, which you’ve just acknowledged, so we’re all good!

 

[Jedijax719]

People need to blame studio executives and not the ones who are making the movies. Executives assess what they think they can sell just like any product. They must hear 100's of "new" ideas a month or even a week (if they even let them to the point of reading). Executives only care about what they can sell. And executives for a company like Disney have become accustomed to selling remakes because it's worked every other time just about. There are videos about this on YT. Just search for videos about getting scripts and screenplays accepted and even the pain in keeping them from being "stolen". Execs and producers want guaranteed money because it pays for their 7 mansions around the world and private jets. Meanwhile, it is next to impossible for ANY new idea to ever be read.

So the question for @BlakeW39 should be "what would you have Disney do differently?". Sadly, if you say "come up with something brand new", it is not how all this works any more. That was fine for the 70's, 80's, and 90's, but not now. Not at a time when people don't have the attention spans to get attached to something new. Not when they can leisurely get used to something new on streaming if they want. Not when people would rather stare at their phones than get to know characters they've never seen before. Not when the twisted world we live in makes it that much more comforting to watch stories and characters they already know. Etc etc etc.

 

[BrianLo]

Further to the thesis there's a wider box office problem... did you guys know Universal / Dreamworks is releasing an animated film this weekend that will likely underperform Strange World at the box office?

I guess its saving grace is it costs less... or that it's so under the radar, it won't be called out.

 

[Jedijax719]

Further to the thesis there's a wider box office problem... did you guys know Universal / Dreamworks is releasing an animated film this weekend that will likely underperform Strange World at the box office?

I guess its saving grace is it costs less... or that it's so under the radar, it won't be called out.

Well therein lies a big problem with Disney. EVERY movie Disney releases seems to be meant to be a tentpole. So EVERY movie they release gets a TON of attention and the spotlight is always on those movies. Universal (and other studios) release a lot more movies than Disney does each year. However, 90% of people have never heard of 90% of those other studios' movies. Other studios may put out 1 or 2 movies a year that are meant to be tentpoles, hoping at least one of them will be big.

And other studios have escaped the vicious political/social media attacks that Disney has undergone. The only other studio to suffer from the media onslaught has been WB, mostly for their handling of DCEU.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I enjoy some of the live action remakes the same way I like a new recording or live recording of a song I love.

It's the same, but also feels new.

To that end, for me the best remakes have been the ones based on the best original. Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast are so good to begin with that the remakes are kind of good by default.

Are they as good or better than the original? No, but that's fine.

They benefit from some good casting (Beauty) and taking advantage of the change in format. Aladdin's bit bollywood-esque sequences really popped in live action.

Having said that, the majority have been underwhelming.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The issue with Netflix is they don't have a real studio system like other streamers, hence they have to buy up their content to keep up/ahead which ends up costing more and more.

Disney doesn't have that issue, so their studio system can feed D+ just like it has for linear for decades. As linear investment fades, and it is and will continue, D+ will get the primary content spend without much overall increases to the bottom line. Its the short term pains of feeding both that just have to be gotten through, but the days of profitability for D+ are fast approaching.

Ummm…I know what’s what they sold you…I can listen to the quarterly call too!

Let’s see what happens?


The flaw in disney plus…if there is one…is their assumption that at somepoint they can go into “cruise control” and get a hold on content costs. That’s is a huge assumption on their part.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Further to the thesis there's a wider box office problem... did you guys know Universal / Dreamworks is releasing an animated film this weekend that will likely underperform Strange World at the box office?

I guess its saving grace is it costs less... or that it's so under the radar, it won't be called out.

Is that the teenage kraken thing?

Just noticed it yesterday.

Well at least they didn’t spend $150m+ on marketing

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well for me it goes like this. If Disney makes a bad product, I want it to fail. If Disney makes a good product, I want it to succeed. I don't want things to succeed or fail simply because they're made by Disney. TLM deserved to flunk. Elemental I'm neutral on. If Wish is good, I hope it's successful.

Thing is, while losses aren't good for the company and won't do anything good for us as fans.... Disney at this point has proven to me that whether they are financially successful or unsuccesful, it's completely irrelevant, because they will still treat the parks— and parks fans —badly. So why would I need them to succeed? It does nothing for me personally. Either way Disney has no interest in making a product that appeals to me.

I can’t argue with you

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well they have long projected profitability in 2024. Don’t know if it will happen but seems plausible with another price raise planned (getting the same rate as Netflix or Max would likely make them profitable). I get that’s not really your question because no I don’t think we have any idea how much Disney hopes/expects to make via streaming long term.

Those projections were based on a much lower “growth rate”…and it didn’t factor subscriber losses that started first quarter 2023…
So we will see. It may be as described?
But there are other factors that they didn’t account for: namely Covid and the writers strike.

What is big to watch is how desperate they are to Jack prices because of cash crunch?

Box office receipts are wrecked…broadcast is gonna be impacted soon by the strike…

And EXACTLY what I’ve long predicted in parks is happening. Travel is not in recession…but Disney travel absolutely is. That’s shocking on a fundamental level.
Shouldn’t be possible. Yet here we are.

Now they’re in desperation discount mode. It worked in the past, but I think they jacked the prices so much that the discounts won’t be big enough. They’re trying 25-30% and my hunch is it’ll take 50%?…possible more to get the flow back into Orlando…

Fun times.
A Disney bundle for $39.99 a month with commercials is gonna fail. Nobody wants the 90’s back.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Have you seen either Mermaid or Elemental to know if they’re good or bad?

They both failed…so getting people to see them was the problem, no?

I noticed Mermaid merch already on clearance in local stores…by the way.

She ain’t “part of this world”…from the looks of it.

 

[LittleBuford]

so getting people to see them was the problem, no?

More than 20 million people have seen Mermaid in America.

But that wasn’t my point anyway.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That your wish to see the remakes fail is based on a strong prejudgement that they are inherently bad rather than on a case-by-case assessment of a given film’s quality, contrary to what you implied in the post of yours that I first quoted.

The problem with pounding remakes is they likely are pigeon holed by the audience and not “individual” any longer…

It’s happening with Pixar…hell - it’s happening with marvel…live actions are likely there too.

It’s all so repetitive. “More of the same”

Not a Disney only thing…a Hollywood thing.

But it hurts the bottomline when they assume it helps it

 

[LittleBuford]

The problem with pounding remakes is they likely are pigeon holed by the audience and not “individual” any longer…

It’s happening with Pixar…hell - it’s happening with marvel…live actions are likely there too.

It’s all so repetitive. “More of the same”

Not a Disney only thing…a Hollywood thing.

But it hurts the bottomline when they assume it helps it

Again, none of this relates to my point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

More than 20 million people have seen Mermaid in America.

But that wasn’t my point anyway.

There’s about 500 million people in NA, no?

400 in USA/Canada


Your point that isn’t a flop and didn’t penetrate the market is mostly wrong.
But that wasn’t my point either.

Like parks…movies have to capture the “mass”…not the “individual”. Doesn’t matter what you or anyone thinks…the collective is all that matters.

 

[LittleBuford]

Is your point to throw smoke and divert from disneys actual problems with participation awards?

Nope. @BlakeW39 understood what I meant, and that’s good enough for me.