Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[celluloid]

I agree all film is subjective…the way you worded your comments it came off as “ I liked gore as a teen and now that I am an adult I am over it”

That goes for the monolith part. Nah. I said I used to be a gore hound, which is a somewhat euphemism in the industry for people who look for those effects all the time. I enjoy horror.

I think you are conflating things and other users with me as well.

No worries either way.

 

[Disney Irish]

I agree all film is subjective…the way you worded your comments it came off as “ I liked gore as a teen and now that I am an adult I am over it”

Don't worry I got the same impression when the poster said this -

I don't watch nor want the same gore fest stuff I watched when I was a teen.

 

[celluloid]

Don't worry I got the same impression when the poster said this -

Notice the phrase "the same" in there.

I don't watch nor want the same gore fest stuff I watched when I was a teen.

It was in a response to how people's nuance and taste change at the time in this discussion.

I will be sure to be more explicit in my meaning next time.

I never stated I was opposed to having any gore in special effects.

 

[DKampy]

Encouraging the use of AI instead of actual actors is just trolling right?

I am convinced one poster is trolling at this point…when he was not getting a reaction on his posts about the latest box office narrative on a film from a Disney studio… he made a controversial statement about AI

He reminds me of my brother with his posts…as my bro will rile people up by going against the grain of how others feel and see how far he can take it… even though he does not care about any of it… I can even see my brother making the same arguments… I would use a recent example… except it involves politics… I will just say my family feel a certain way… and my brother has to argue about the opposite issue… but he isn’t really passionate about the issues…he does not even vote

 

[Disney Irish]

Notice the phrase "the same" in there.

I don't watch nor want the same gore fest stuff I watched when I was a teen.

It was in a response to how people's nuance and taste change at the time in this discussion.

I will be sure to be more explicit in my meaning next time.

I never stated I was opposed to having any gore in special effects.

I understand what you mean now that you have clarified it further, but it comes across just as @DKampy said, “ I liked gore as a teen and now that I am an adult I am over it”.

 

[celluloid]

I am convinced one poster is trolling at this point…when he was not getting a reaction on his posts about the latest box office narrative on a film from a Disney studio… he made a controversial statement about AI

He reminds me of my brother with his posts…as my bro will rile people up by going against the grain of how others feel and see how far he can take it… even though he does not care about any of it… I can even see my brother making the same arguments… I would use a recent example… except it involves politics… I will just say my family feel a certain way… and my brother has to argue about the opposite issue… but he isn’t really passionate about the issues…he does not even vote

This reminds me of Danny Vermin from Johnny Dangerously.

 

[TP2000]

I am convinced one poster is trolling at this point…when he was not getting a reaction on his posts about the latest box office narrative on a film from a Disney studio… he made a controversial statement about AI

Both of those hot takes seem to misrepresent what I said.

As it relates to "latest box office narrative", I assume you are talking about The First Omen and its current box office results. That's not a "narrative", that is posting factual data and truths about how Disney's only movie currently in theaters is performing at the box office.

As for "controversial statement about AI", I don't know what's controversial about the fact that A.I. seems to have the ability to do voiceover work. That's simply a fact, and it's likely the type of tech that will be used in the near future for cartoons and animation across all media. And thus voiceover work looks to fall into a 250 year long list of human jobs that were replaced by new technology.

As for that Disney film, The First Omen... Box office data has now been updated from overseas this past weekend. The First Omen did not have good box office legs in the US, or in overseas countries on its third weekend out. It is now operating at a box office loss of about $26 Million:

The First Omen (2024) - Financial Information

Financial analysis of The First Omen (2024) including budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports, total earnings and profitability.

www.the-numbers.com

 

[brb1006]

Just saw Wish on D+

Why did they hate this one again?

I thought it was a fresh take, not the same old Princess looking for a Prince or whatever.

Thought the goat would be funnier based on the trailer, but was ok.

Little callbacks were cool, fitting for the anniversary.

Have you seen or heard about the original idea and concepts for Wish. Disney fans actually preferred the original versions of the characters and storyline compared to the finalized version we got.

 

[brb1006]

You can't just blame those deplorable Americans.

While it is factually true (and blatantly so) that Wish bombed at the US box office, the bomb-status of Wish was not exclusively a US phenomenon. Compared to its recent competition, Wish also bombed badly in many overseas markets. A few notable overseas examples of the failure of Wish at the box office that can't be explained away "Because it is on trend by a certain group in this country to hate on Disney"...

Overseas Box Office Data as of 4/4/24 Cherry Picked Like a Bushel of Fresh Rainier Cherries in June

Mexico & Central America: Wish = $5.3 Million, Migration = $11.4 Million
United Kingdom: Wish = $16.5 Million, Migration = $25.3 Million
Germany: Wish = $18.5 Million, Migration = $22.1 Million
Switzerland: Wish = $2.5 Million , Migration = $4.5 Million
BeNeLux: Wish = $6.3 Million, Migration = $8.8 Million

And Kung Fu Panda, which has only been in most overseas theaters a few weeks and hasn't even opened yet in a few key countries, is doing overseas box office far higher than that of Wish.

Kung Fu Panda has only been out for 3 weeks in Mexico & the 6 Central American countries, but already has done this...

Mexico & Central America: Wish = $5.3 Million, Kung Fu Panda = $33.1 Million (and still counting)

You can't just blame Americans for the global box office data. You have to blame the entire planet if you're being honest.

Movie Comparison: Kung Fu Panda 4 (2024) vs. Migration (2023) vs. Wish (2023)

Domestic box office comparison between Kung Fu Panda 4 (2024) and Migration (2023) and Wish (2023)

www.the-numbers.com

Except Japan where Japanese audiences really liked Wish. Although that might have to do with a decent dub and a few localization changes. It also did well in France.

 

[brb1006]

I have to wonder... Why do you even need human, much less higher cost human celebrity, voices in animation now? Why can't you just create an AI voice that fits the animated character perfectly instead of hiring a human? Then as part of the production process, have an audio engineer tweak the AI voice for whatever nuance the director wants or needs from that voice.

It's a cartoon. You can't see the human doing the voiceover work. Just get AI to do it, and that could cut way down on the bloated budgets Disney and Pixar use for their animated films that no longer seem to break even at the box office.

Because just as AI can’t write as well as humans, it can’t act as well as humans either.

Those of us who actually watch the films in question care about their quality.

Let's just say tons of beloved voice actors absolutely despise AI (especially AI voices) since the VA Community fear that the more advanced AI becomes. It will become a serious threat to voice acting in general. Grey Deleslie has been very vocal on this.

 

[TP2000]

Let's just say tons of beloved voice actors absolutely despise AI (especially AI voices) since the VA Community fear that the more advanced AI becomes. It will become a serious threat to voice acting in general. Grey Deleslie has been very vocal on this.

I can easily imagine how scared they must be for their jobs, as the technology is here and is getting better quickly.

It would be silly to think this won't be an issue of growing importance in the future, even if some folks here in this thread seem to want to pretend it won't be a problem and they'll just wish it away.

 

[Tha Realest]

Let's just say tons of beloved voice actors absolutely despise AI (especially AI voices) since the VA Community fear that the more advanced AI becomes. It will become a serious threat to voice acting in general. Grey Deleslie has been very vocal on this.

This is a bit ironic, as there’s a whole segment of the voice acting community that exists because some of those voice actors do a reasonable facsimile of more famous actors, who aren’t used because to pay them would be prohibitively expensive.

 

[erasure fan1]

This is a bit ironic, as there’s a whole segment of the voice acting community that exists because some of those voice actors do a reasonable facsimile of more famous actors, who aren’t used because to pay them would be prohibitively expensive.

That's a good point. As an example, Jim Hanks has a voice acting gig because he can sound just like brother. He has almost 30yrs of work, why? Because he's not Tom but can sound like him. The difference is Tom doesn't care because its his brother.

AI voice work will most likely hurt the low level more no name voice actors who do a lot of background work. If you're a well to semi well known name, you're probably pretty safe. We are a long way off from it being truly good enough to replace main characters for an entire film. Unfortunately it will be a loss. But @TP2000 is right, a lot of traditional animation artists lost their jobs to digital. A lot of effects artists doing model work an stop motion... lost work to cgi. You can argue it just replaced one job with a different one. But can't the same be said with AI? The tech costs money and needs developers. Personally I don't see it as the downfall of voice work because I don't see it as a replacement of most voice talent. Sure some will be impacted, but that unfortunately part of life and has always been a part of Hollywood.

 

[celluloid]

That's a good point. As an example, Jim Hanks has a voice acting gig because he can sound just like brother. He has almost 30yrs of work, why? Because he's not Tom but can sound like him. The difference is Tom doesn't care because its his brother.

AI voice work will most likely hurt the low level more no name voice actors who do a lot of background work. If you're a well to semi well known name, you're probably pretty safe. We are a long way off from it being truly good enough to replace main characters for an entire film. Unfortunately it will be a loss. But @TP2000 is right, a lot of traditional animation artists lost their jobs to digital. A lot of effects artists doing model work an stop motion... lost work to cgi. You can argue it just replaced one job with a different one. But can't the same be said with AI? The tech costs money and needs developers. Personally I don't see it as the downfall of voice work because I don't see it as a replacement of most voice talent. Sure some will be impacted, but that unfortunately part of life and has always been a part of Hollywood.

This is well said. Although I think it will seem fairly abrupt with how soon the smaller roles start to happen.
If nonsense can do it next to free as good as it does, the billions into it eventually will do great.

At the end of the day, being angry that it will happen does not mean people should rip TP2000 apart for bringing it up.

 

[Disney Irish]

That's a good point. As an example, Jim Hanks has a voice acting gig because he can sound just like brother. He has almost 30yrs of work, why? Because he's not Tom but can sound like him. The difference is Tom doesn't care because its his brother.

AI voice work will most likely hurt the low level more no name voice actors who do a lot of background work. If you're a well to semi well known name, you're probably pretty safe. We are a long way off from it being truly good enough to replace main characters for an entire film. Unfortunately it will be a loss. But @TP2000 is right, a lot of traditional animation artists lost their jobs to digital. A lot of effects artists doing model work an stop motion... lost work to cgi. You can argue it just replaced one job with a different one. But can't the same be said with AI? The tech costs money and needs developers. Personally I don't see it as the downfall of voice work because I don't see it as a replacement of most voice talent. Sure some will be impacted, but that unfortunately part of life and has always been a part of Hollywood.

Except I'm pretty sure that Tom would be mad at Disney if his brother was replaced by an AI, leading to him not willing to voice Woody in TS5 or voice any character in the future. And I'm pretty sure many A-listers would feel the same way about any AI replacing their sound-alike human counter parts as well.

 

[LittleBuford]

This is well said. Although I think it will seem fairly abrupt with how soon the smaller roles start to happen.
If nonsense can do it next to free as good as it does, the billions into it eventually will do great.

At the end of the day, being angry that it will happen does not mean people should rip TP2000 apart for bringing it up.

The reaction he got (and, I suspect, wanted to get) wasn’t because he was suggesting that AI would gain increasing prominence—no-one is denying that—but because he seemed to be suggesting that Disney was somehow at fault for wasting money on human talent. Those of us who actually watch animated movies and care about their quality naturally bristle at the idea that voice actors are expendable.

 

[erasure fan1]

Except I'm pretty sure that Tom would be mad at Disney if his brother was replaced by an AI, leading to him not willing to voice Woody in TS5 or voice any character in the future. And I'm pretty sure many A-listers would feel the same way about any AI replacing their sound-alike human counter parts as well.

I agree to a point. Like I said, I have no doubt that Tom or his level of actor will in no way be impacted by this. Like I said, it's going to be the very low level actor that does the background type stuff that will be impacted. Now I can't say I've looked in to this, but my guess is Tom, or any other big name, didn't fight for the old school film splicers, or stop motion artists who lost work or any of the other creative jobs. I get what you're saying, and do I trust Hollywood, or any of the entertainment industry to use the tech in the way it should be? Absolutely not. They will 100% try it. I just don't see it being successful. And then it's back to real actors and using the tech the way that makes sense. Background characters and voices. It's also could be a great way to add something minor without going through a lot effort, thus shortening post and keeping a better handle on budget. Now if you're a voice actor working for some YouTube studio, I'd probably start looking for something different right now. Because this tech will definitely take over that type of space.

 

[Disney Irish]

The reaction he got (and, I suspect, wanted to get) wasn’t because he was suggesting that AI would gain increasing prominence—no-one is denying that—but because he seemed to be suggesting that Disney was somehow at fault for wasting money on human talent. Those of us who actually watch animated movies and care about their quality naturally bristle at the idea that voice actors are expendable.

And its not just voice actors, if you go back to the 2023 Strike thread, he suggests replacing all actors (his target at the time was Rachel Zegler) with AI. For someone who doesn't care about modern entertainment he sure has many opinions on it.

 

[Disney Irish]

I agree to a point. Like I said, I have no doubt that Tom or his level of actor will in no way be impacted by this. Like I said, it's going to be the very low level actor that does the background type stuff that will be impacted. Now I can't say I've looked in to this, but my guess is Tom, or any other big name, didn't fight for the old school film splicers, or stop motion artists who lost work or any of the other creative jobs. I get what you're saying, and do I trust Hollywood, or any of the entertainment industry to use the tech in the way it should be? Absolutely not. They will 100% try it. I just don't see it being successful. And then it's back to real actors and using the tech the way that makes sense. Background characters and voices. It's also could be a great way to add something minor without going through a lot effort, thus shortening post and keeping a better handle on budget. Now if you're a voice actor working for some YouTube studio, I'd probably start looking for something different right now. Because this tech will definitely take over that type of space.

Except it was Tom who suggested his brother to replace him when he wasn't available as I recall. So while a considered a "low-level" actor in that respected, Tom is 100% impacted if his brother was replaced by AI.

 

[erasure fan1]

Except it was Tom who suggested his brother to replace him when he wasn't available as I recall. So while a considered a "low-level" actor in that respected, Tom is 100% impacted if his brother was replaced by AI.

Yes he's impacted but not the way you have been talking about. He will still get jobs, his career as a voice actor won't be over. Yes, his brother could be impacted, I've said as much. Is that a bad thing? Of course. But someone here, I forget who, said when TP mentioned that jobs are always lost to new tech, it was said those aren't "creative" jobs. My point was there have been plenty of creative jobs lost to new tech and it sucks. But it's unfortunately part of life. If I was to bet, in my lifetime AI will not be good enough to completely replace voice actors for a feature film. I just don't see any AI being able to perform like a Robin Williams in Aladdin or any great performance.

And let's be honest. If Disney said, sorry Jim were going with AI for all the secondary Woody parts, Tom is100% blacklisting them. And when the majority of the popular stars refuse to work with studios because of the same type of situation. The problem fixes itself.