Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[AdventureHasAName]

Let me amaze you by telling you how well Iron Man and Captain America comics sold.

A significant portion of what’s going on is older adults convinced the characters and stories THEY remember are the “real” ones and nothing valid happened after they stopped reading comics.

... and that idea is buttressed by the sale of movie tickets over the last fifteen years (and the comparative poor performance of MCU projects - outside of Spiderman - after Tony Stark and Steve Rogers exited Stage Left).

Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Iron Man (Tony Stark), Wolverine, the Thing may be the only characters that sell tickets. That could likely be expanded to include Thor (not lady Thor), Daredevil, Black Panther (Tchalla), the Punisher, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men and Doctor Doom on a case-by-case basis depending on the story, the director, etc. These are all characters that have been around and been super-popular for decades (arguably the Black Panther only reached this level through his recent ability-upgrade over the last 20 years).

And then you have very, very well-known and popular characters with longevity like Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, Ghost Rider, Ant-man, the Wasp, Hercules, She-Hulk, the Scarlet Witch, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Black Widow that are having (or would have) difficulty supporting solo shows and movies.

Then way, way, way down the list you have characters like the Young Avengers that came around after Marvel and DC did their best to kill off the comic books industry.

As I said earlier, that does not mean a highly profitable and enjoyable show or film could not be created around any of these characters (as happened with the Guardians of the Galaxy films), but I'd argue that was more like Feige lucking into a winning lottery ticket (James Gunn, Chris Pratt, MCU goodwill at its peak) and a lot less like the general public was just sitting around begging for a Star Wars clone featuring a tree and a raccoon.

I'm sure Wiccan and Hulkling are some peoples' favorite characters. But every character is somebody's favorite character. The idea that they (right now) are on par with the popularity of Tony Stark in 2008 is ridiculous.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I have no idea, and neither do you.

Sure I do. They won't sell tickets based on their popularity. Could they be in a profitable movie? Sure. Could it be a good movie? Sure. But on their historical popularity and name ID, alone? No, they won't sell tickets.

 

[Joel]

Let me amaze you by telling you how well Iron Man and Captain America comics sold.

At least well enough to be published for decades. By what metric are the characters in Young Avengers even borderline comparable to pre-MCU Avengers?

I can't wait to come back to this thread if they actually make a Young Avengers movie. A D+ series I could see.

James Gunn (or anyone like him) is not walking through that door.

Sometimes I feel like I'm reading messages from people in some other corner of the multiverse.

 

[Casper Gutman]

... and that idea is buttressed by the sale of movie tickets over the last ten years (and the comparative poor performance of MCU projects - outside of Spiderman - after Tony Stark and Steve Rogers exited Stage Left).

Spiderman, Hulk, Captain America (Steve Rogers), Iron Man (Tony Stark), Wolverine, the Thing may be the only characters that sell tickets. That could likely be expanded to include Thor (not lady Thor), Daredevil, Black Panther (Tchalla), the Punisher, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men and Doctor Doom on a case-by-case basis depending on the story, the director, etc. These are all characters that have been around and been super-popular for decades (arguably the Black Panther only reached this level through his recent ability-upgrade over the last 20 years).

And then you have very, very well-known and popular characters with longevity like Dr. Strange, the Silver Surfer, Ghost Rider, Ant-man, the Wasp, Hercules, She-Hulk, the Scarlet Witch, Nick Fury, Hawkeye, Black Widow that are having (or would have) difficulty supporting solo shows and movies.

Then way, way, way down the list you have characters like the Young Avengers that came around after Marvel and DC did their best to kill off the comic books industry.

As I said earlier, that does not mean a highly profitable and enjoyable show or film could not be created around any of these characters (as happened with the Guardians of the Galaxy films), but I'd argue that was more like Feige lucking into a winning lottery ticket (James Gunn, Chris Pratt, MCU goodwill at its peak) and a lot less like the general public was just sitting around begging for a Star Wars clone featuring a tree and a raccoon.

I'm sure Wiccan and Hulkling are some peoples' favorite characters. But every character is somebody's favorite character. The idea that they (right now) are on par with the popularity of Tony Stark in 2008 is ridiculous.

In 2006, the best selling issue of Iron Man’s solo book was the 237th best selling comic of the year. He had a one-shot with Cap tied to a major event that was 129. The Young Avengers starred in 150, 192, 234, and 238. So yes, comparable.

Personal nostalgia does not define reality.

 

[Disney Irish]

Sure I do. They won't sell tickets based on their popularity. Could they be in a profitable movie? Sure. Could it be a good movie? Sure. But on their historical popularity and name ID, alone? No, they won't sell tickets.

You're making assumptions for which there is no information.

Again we don't know how they will be used. We don't know if they will be included as part of the team or in standalone stories. We don't even know if any of this will be a movie or a D+ series. There is a lot of unknowns right now. So don't act like you know how the MCU is going to perform in the future based on all these unknowns.

All that is known right now is that the MCU will have the Young Avengers and that Wiccan who is a member of that team is also in the MCU. And then all I said was that there will be a fan community uproar if they leave off Hulkling from the team. I never claimed how big that fan community was nor how big an uproar there will be, just that there will be an uproar.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

You're making assumptions for which there is no information.

Again we don't know how they will be used. We don't know if they will be included as part of the team or in standalone stories. We don't even know if any of this will be a movie or a D+ series. There is a lot of unknowns right now. So don't act like you know how the MCU is going to perform in the future based on all these unknowns.

All that is known right now is that the MCU will have the Young Avengers and that Wiccan who is a member of that team is also in the MCU. And then all I said was that there will be a fan community uproar if they leave off Hulkling from the team. I never claimed how big that fan community was nor how big an uproar there will be, just that there will be an uproar.

Well, there are spoilers out there regarding how Wiccan will be introduced. It's not going to be in a Young Avengers movie.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

And when posts that aren't some crazy content, and they're constantly spammed with mad and omg emojis, it shows the true nature of that poster.

And that baseless personal attack rhymes with “goodbye.”

Also learn what spam means.

*Ignore*

 

[Disney Irish]

Well, there are spoilers out there regarding how Wiccan will be introduced. It's not going to be in a Young Avengers movie.

He already has been introduced, in Wandavision. Its not a spoiler. Its already confirmed he will be in

Spoiler: Potential Spoiler

Agatha: Darkhold Diaries.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

He already has been introduced, in Wandavision. Its not a spoiler. Its already confirmed he will be in

Spoiler: Spoiler

Coven of Chaos

, also not a spoiler.

It might not be a spoiler to you ...

 

[Casper Gutman]

He already has been introduced, in Wandavision. Its not a spoiler. Its already confirmed he will be in Coven of Chaos, also not a spoiler.

Well, the Coven thing might be a BIT of a spoiler!

 

[DisneyHead123]

Curious about this recent enigmatic Iger interview. I’m not sure what he means by this:

Iger also discussed "The Marvels," which recently premiered to a $47 million opening weekend — the lowest for any Marvel film. He said part of the problem could be traced back to the pandemic, because "there wasn't as much supervision on the set, so to speak, where we have executives really looking over what's being done day after day after day."

Execs looking over shoulders? I feel like I’m missing some kind of sub context.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Curious about this recent enigmatic Iger interview. I’m not sure what he means by this:


Execs looking over shoulders? I feel like I’m missing some kind of sub context.

I was also curious about that comment. Does he mean the writing was bad? The directing was bad? The editing was bad?

It creates more questions than answers.

 

[_caleb]

Curious about this recent enigmatic Iger interview. I’m not sure what he means by this:


Execs looking over shoulders? I feel like I’m missing some kind of sub context.

I think he's talking about Feige's oversight of the direction and production. Typically, the director of a film has a lot more creative control. But with the MCU, Disney has set up Kevin Feige to be a sort of super producer who guides the whole thing and then they've hired younger/less-proven directors to do their work under him.

 

[Disney Irish]

It might not be a spoiler to you ...

Fine, I updated it with a spoiler tag and even changed the name to reflect the updated name.

Anyways still doesn't preclude that the character has already been introduced in Wandavision. How the character is used beyond this is still unknown.

 

[Tha Realest]

Curious about this recent enigmatic Iger interview. I’m not sure what he means by this:


Execs looking over shoulders? I feel like I’m missing some kind of sub context.

Iger seems to discount the “culture war” arguments as to why the films haven’t landed, but does implicitly throw DaCosta under the bus.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Let me amaze you by telling you how well Iron Man and Captain America comics sold.

A significant portion of what’s going on is older adults convinced the characters and stories THEY remember are the “real” ones and nothing valid happened after they stopped reading comics.

This is an outsider's perspective, but I'll give it anyway. The original Iron Man film's success probably didn't depend on the characters's prior recognition among comic book fans, who aren't a large enough audience to propel a major blockbuster by themselves.

I think the film simply gave us a compelling character who was well written and very charismatically acted. The movie was well marketed, highlighting Robert Downey Jr's performance, enthusiatically received by critics and had good word of mouth among general audiences.

I've never opened a Marvel comic book in my life, but because they appeared to be trying something a little different than the usual Wham-Bang, I gave it a shot. I didn't care a damn if Iron Man was a one-shot Marvel character, or someone with decades of stories, the premise and character appeared intriguing enough by themselves.

There is absolutely no similar hook in the MCU currently that is going to draw in a general audience member like me, and frankly, the weight of all the accumulated plot baggage is one facet (among others) that is actively keeping me away. They could make a film featuring a character I know, or make it with some obscure, short-lived super hero from 50 years ago, it wouldn't matter, I'm not spending the time or money to dive into that convoluted mess.

 

[CinematicFusion]

Iger seems to discount the “culture war” arguments as to why the films haven’t landed, but does implicitly throw DaCosta under the bus.
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There is no hatred for the film driven by sexism.
Disney made a marvel movie for women that women didn’t want to see. Don’t blame the teen boys who didn’t want to see it.
People arent forced to watch movies.

Why didn’t the women show up to see The Marvels like they did with Barbie?
That’s the real question.

Luckily Disney doesn't own the Barbie brand. They would try to find away to make it be universally liked by boys and girls and it would fail miserably because it would be made for no one.

Barbie was a well executed girl brand for women… that men went to see with their wives and daughters.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

I think the film simply gave us a compelling character who was well written and very charismatically acted. The movie was well marketed, highlighting Robert Downey Jr's performance, enthusiatically received by critics and had good word of mouth among general audiences.

I've never opened a Marvel comic book in my life, but because they appeared to be trying something a little different than the usual Wham-Bang, I gave it a shot. I didn't care a damn if Iron Man was a one-shot Marvel character, or someone with decades of stories, the premise and character appeared intriguing enough by themselves.

Just curious, after seeing Iron Man (and having not been a person who was familiar with comic books), did anyone in your life (family, friends, co-workers) explain to you that the end credit scene meant that Iron Man wasn't just a one-off movie and that clearly the goal was going to be to introduce Captain America, Thor and the Hulk in order to produce a superhero team film (the Avengers) down the line?

 

[Phroobar]

Iger seems to discount the “culture war” arguments as to why the films haven’t landed, but does implicitly throw DaCosta under the bus.
View attachment 756833

Right Bob. More supervision by executives always makes for a better movie. The man is clueless.

The volume argument was give for the slaughtering of Star Wars too. It can't possibility be the crappy stories. We must have too many feature length animated movies too.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Just curious, after seeing Iron Man (and having not been a person who was familiar with comic books), did anyone in your life (family, friends, co-workers) explain to you that the end credit scene meant that Iron Man wasn't just a one-off movie and that clearly the goal was going to be to introduce Captain America, Thor and the Hulk in order to produce a superhero team film (the Avengers) down the line?

I turned off the movie after the "I am Iron Man" scene, and the film didn't really make enough of an impression that I thought I needed to discuss it with anyone. It was fine, not really to my tastes, but I understood why people liked it. If there were any Marvel fans in my social circle at that time, I wasn't aware.