Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
But throwing your fist in the air in every post, yelling at the world about how Disney has failed and everyone is being a Disney apologist (when that has never happened)?..........yeah.
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Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs
- Thread starter Disney Analyst
- Start date
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Frodo, Jack Sparrow, Harry Potter - where are those pillars of traditional masculinity who used to grace our screens? Can you imagine if Indy had been constantly beat up and made to look foolish in his movies? Or if he and Rocky had both FAILED at the end of their debut features? And let’s talk about First Blood, a film all about celebrating the unquestioned traditional masculinity of Rambo…The sad thing is it probably would have worked if they’d been more clever. Unfortunately the studios don’t seem motivated to make good stories anymore, that takes writing new and fun scripts and characters, which is hard, much easier to just change every leading man character into a woman or minority and hope that gets people in seats.
Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, James Bond, Rocky, Oceans 11… no one wants to see strong leading men anymore, that’s why Maverick was such a colossal failure.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I don’t think every hero has to be a dude…The sad thing is it probably would have worked if they’d been more clever. Unfortunately the studios don’t seem motivated to make good stories anymore, that takes writing new and fun scripts and characters, which is hard, much easier to just change every leading man character into a woman or minority and hope that gets people in seats.
Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, James Bond, Rocky, Oceans 11… no one wants to see strong leading men anymore, that’s why Maverick was such a colossal failure
Not even close. So you gotta come up with new ones.
You can’t “replace” the old ones and have a John Williams theme play over them.
It’s disgustingly lazy and frankly cynical. You’re audience may be backwards, mysoginistic…maybe racist…
So the way to handle that is to treat them also like morons and try to trick the money out of it still?
I’d rather they announce they don’t ageee with Luke Skywalker and Indy cause they weren’t Jimmy Carter fans…than trying to eviscerate them…it’s a more reasonable stance.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I will admit that Kennedy has to go. However, I am not sure someone can reverse the damage of Lucasfilm, not even Favreau and/or Filoni. Being a Star Wars fan, I am not even sure what fans want or think would make things better. We can circle the wagons, but it was really just one movie that caused the spiral downward. People would have accepted Solo as just being a random movie and move on from there had it not been for one particular movie that pulled the rug out. The TV shows have been very good for the most part.
Pixar will probably finally see a comeback with Inside Out 2, but in 2024, who knows what a possible "comeback" would look like for box office.
I don't expect them to ever think a live-action remake will be big again. Snow White will be an atrocity. Mustafa is pointless, and Moana is too soon UNLESS they plan to have the "continuing adventures of Moana" which should have been animated anyway.
Disney animated is doing fine. They haven't really had a chance to stretch its legs since the pandemic, but if Encanto is any indication, they are fine. Box office will never be what it was with Frozen, Moana, or even Coco. But that's the state of things.
The MCU candle is burning fast if not already burned out. GOTG3 was a saving grace and I think people would accept a Shang Chi 2. Nobody is holding their breath in anticipation for either of the next two Avengers movies (especially with the Majors drama and not even knowing what Secret Wars will be about). A THIRD Fantastic Four reboot may be tiresome. Time to reboot X-Men once and for all. That being said, Deadpool 3 will likely be next year's biggest box office hit.
And that is that. No apologist rant here. Nobody trying to defend Disney. Just saying that Disney is far from the only studio struggling. WB has been driven to the ground and while Universal has largely avoided any media drama, it only seems to put out a hit per year. Dark times for the theater industry. And streaming has hit mostly a saturation point. What to do? Just saying " we want better content" doesn't cut it unless people can genuinely and specifically identify what that even means.
Pixar will probably finally see a comeback with Inside Out 2, but in 2024, who knows what a possible "comeback" would look like for box office.
I don't expect them to ever think a live-action remake will be big again. Snow White will be an atrocity. Mustafa is pointless, and Moana is too soon UNLESS they plan to have the "continuing adventures of Moana" which should have been animated anyway.
Disney animated is doing fine. They haven't really had a chance to stretch its legs since the pandemic, but if Encanto is any indication, they are fine. Box office will never be what it was with Frozen, Moana, or even Coco. But that's the state of things.
The MCU candle is burning fast if not already burned out. GOTG3 was a saving grace and I think people would accept a Shang Chi 2. Nobody is holding their breath in anticipation for either of the next two Avengers movies (especially with the Majors drama and not even knowing what Secret Wars will be about). A THIRD Fantastic Four reboot may be tiresome. Time to reboot X-Men once and for all. That being said, Deadpool 3 will likely be next year's biggest box office hit.
And that is that. No apologist rant here. Nobody trying to defend Disney. Just saying that Disney is far from the only studio struggling. WB has been driven to the ground and while Universal has largely avoided any media drama, it only seems to put out a hit per year. Dark times for the theater industry. And streaming has hit mostly a saturation point. What to do? Just saying " we want better content" doesn't cut it unless people can genuinely and specifically identify what that even means.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Yep mostly agree with you, though I think the MCU still has a bit more gas left in the tank. Otherwise we are in sync on the state of things.
Farerb
Well-Known Member
You call Strange World "doing fine"?
I think their point is… it’s one major flop after years of pretty big successes. Disney Animation should be fine, especially with Wish.
Indy_UK
Well-Known Member
I dont get what Marvel can really do, they're producing too much content.
I would say slow down the releases and spread it all out more so people have time to invest.
Disney Irish
Premium Member
And that appears to be exactly what they are doing.
Willmark
Well-Known Member
With Dial of Destiny already looking none to good on the financial side it’s probably long past time for some folks to admit Disney has a problem on the film side of its business. It’s a variety of factors, not any one single thing, but multiple reasons. Some are easier to correct than others.
Will the Mouse listen is the question or will they double down?
First and foremost is they have a trust issue. I’m going to leave aside the reasons as I don’t want to get bogged down. Anyone wanting to dispute this can find any number of articles showing the decline over the last two years.
I don’t trust Disney, but for different reasons.
I literally do not trust Disney when it comes to Star Wars or Indiana Jones movies. Note this isn’t some “they ruined my childhood moment” either, rather it’s a case that they proved that they have no issues with alienating their fans:
Force Awakens- kill off Han? Because reasons? As a main character death it was pretty lame.
The Last Jedi- kill of Luke and make him a sad parody of himself? (Mark Hamill tried to warn us in interviews before the Mouse muzzled him.)
I wanted to have a fun romp one last time with time honored characters. That’s not what we got. Then to get lectured in the film and by the media, directors, backers, you name it?
Pass.
Dial of Destiny? Can’t say, as I’m not giving up my $ to see this play out again. By all accounts the ending is heartwarming? Too little, too late Disney. You told me you didn’t want me as a fan so don’t be surprised when I don’t… well.. fan.
That is 100% Disney’s fault, not mine.
Again, this isn’t about “get off my lawn”, this isn’t about “ruining my childhood.” This is about “hey you don’t want my dollars? Shrug, ok.”
TLDR? Disney has no one to blame but themselves for the state their movies are in.
Will the Mouse listen is the question or will they double down?
First and foremost is they have a trust issue. I’m going to leave aside the reasons as I don’t want to get bogged down. Anyone wanting to dispute this can find any number of articles showing the decline over the last two years.
I don’t trust Disney, but for different reasons.
I literally do not trust Disney when it comes to Star Wars or Indiana Jones movies. Note this isn’t some “they ruined my childhood moment” either, rather it’s a case that they proved that they have no issues with alienating their fans:
Force Awakens- kill off Han? Because reasons? As a main character death it was pretty lame.
The Last Jedi- kill of Luke and make him a sad parody of himself? (Mark Hamill tried to warn us in interviews before the Mouse muzzled him.)
I wanted to have a fun romp one last time with time honored characters. That’s not what we got. Then to get lectured in the film and by the media, directors, backers, you name it?
Pass.
Dial of Destiny? Can’t say, as I’m not giving up my $ to see this play out again. By all accounts the ending is heartwarming? Too little, too late Disney. You told me you didn’t want me as a fan so don’t be surprised when I don’t… well.. fan.
That is 100% Disney’s fault, not mine.
Again, this isn’t about “get off my lawn”, this isn’t about “ruining my childhood.” This is about “hey you don’t want my dollars? Shrug, ok.”
TLDR? Disney has no one to blame but themselves for the state their movies are in.
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Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
I actually fully believe that we will see Han and Luke (and possibly Leia) on screen together again at some point. Stay tuned.....
el_super
Well-Known Member
The only way Star Wars (or Indy) is going to survive as a franchise is to find a way to move on from the main characters and old stories. Luke, Hand and Leia should have never been in any of the sequel movies. Maybe as just a cameo, but completely invalidating their story arcs to haul them back in front of an audience is the worst kind of patronizing.
But Star Wars fans can't seem to figure that out. They'd love to watch Luke and Han fighting Darth Vader for the prime window spot in the old folks home.
Willmark
Well-Known Member
Personally I have no issue with them moving on.
Luke Leia and Han could have had much better endings but that’s not what we got. I’m fine with the killing of them but in the case of Luke that was beyond lame.
Personally the only Disney Star Wars movies I’ve really liked are Solo and Rogue One.
Rogue One did a great job of making the viewer care about characters they had no attachment to. Any of the new characters in Last Jedi? Not at all.
I also say this as someone who has never watched Clone Wars or read anything in the expanded universe other than one Thrawn book.
I’m fine with new characters and new arcs, they simply have to give me a reason to care which the Mouse has not done for the most part.
And to add Luke (or Han) fighting Vader that would be Rey’s job. Luke should have been her mentor, instead we got some sort of sad, pathetic excuse for Luke if for no other reason than Rian Johnson was too busy “subverting expectations” than to make an enjoyable movie.
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el_super
Well-Known Member
The Last Jedi was, for me, definitely the best of the sequel movies, and probably up there for best Star Wars movie for me. I liked it for the character development and the story telling risks it took. Are these not aspects that Star Wars fans want in their films?
Willmark
Well-Known Member
Glad you enjoyed it. I rank it below Ewoks Battle for Endor and the Holiday Special and below Attack of the Clones which is the weakest of the prequels.
We'll simply have to agree to disagree.
Jedijax719
Well-Known Member
The Last Jedi was a decent movie but not a good sequel to TFA based on an understanding of what makes Star Wars Star Wars.
Remove TLJ from the trilogy and insert a different movie and you can still keep TFA and TROS mostly intact to maintain a fluid trilogy. TLJ, in my opinion, makes the trilogy uneven. For TROS, a set up for Palpatine's return, the Force ghost scene that several fans inserted to help Rey, and possibly a scene that shows Leia and Ben together in the afterlife (use stock footage of "Mary Poppins Leia" from TLJ, could have made it work IF there was an episode 8 that set it up.
Remove TLJ from the trilogy and insert a different movie and you can still keep TFA and TROS mostly intact to maintain a fluid trilogy. TLJ, in my opinion, makes the trilogy uneven. For TROS, a set up for Palpatine's return, the Force ghost scene that several fans inserted to help Rey, and possibly a scene that shows Leia and Ben together in the afterlife (use stock footage of "Mary Poppins Leia" from TLJ, could have made it work IF there was an episode 8 that set it up.
Ghost93
Well-Known Member
The Rise of Skywalker made the trilogy uneven when it decided to retcon everything interesting about the Last Jedi. I really wish they had stuck with Colin Trevvorow's original episode 9 script "Duel of the Fates." It would have still been a flawed trilogy, but it would have been much more cohesive than the mess we ended up with in "Rise of Skywalker."
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
Barbies marketing and meme-ification likely guarantees a big opening, but we don’t know how long it’s legs will be. I wouldn’t bet against it, but we have no word at all on its actual quality and it’s still an odd beast of a film with a lot of questions - will families turn out for the brand, even though it’s an adult comedy?