News Disney and Fox come to terms -- announcement soon; huge IP acquisition

Biff215

Well-Known Member
Limiting their options? Disney hasn’t used the theme park rights anywhere well at all for marvel. Mainly just overlays of old rides, a crappy music show, and now a coaster. Disney isn’t really worried about it. If they were, they would have used the rights they have better.
I agree they haven’t used them to their full potential, but I’d say they haven’t created many attractions as of late that are truly phenomenal, whether Marvel or not. If they had full use of Marvel in Florida, we might be looking at an entire land (if not park). DCA is slowly getting some attractions as well which should prove to be very popular. GotG is being used in Epcot since it’s currently the best they have to work with. That’s limiting.

I’m not saying that Marvel is part of the Fox equation at this point, but to say that Disney doesn’t care is a stretch. If and when the opportunity presents itself, they would pounce if the right deal could be made. IMHO.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
I agree! It would definitely be crazy, crazy bid, and I don't think either company is necessarily willing to go here, but Disney is in a stronger position should they have to. After Wednesday, I believe Disney sees Fox as an absolute must-win.

For curiosity's sake, what's your max? I'll try to run the numbers for that.
I think Disney's current offer is better than $40.00 cash and is close to a wash of Comcast offers $41.00 a share. For me to vote in favor of Comcast, Comcast would need to pay $45.00 a share and Disney back out. The thing is I can't see Comcast being able to finance $45.00 a share for Fox plus $23 billion for Sky. Bankers would be crazy if they allowed that much debt.
 

Stripes

Premium Member
I think Disney's current offer is better than $40.00 cash and is close to a wash of Comcast offers $41.00 a share. For me to vote in favor of Comcast, Comcast would need to pay $45.00 a share and Disney back out. The thing is I can't see Comcast being able to finance $45.00 a share for Fox plus $23 billion for Sky. Bankers would be crazy if they allowed that much debt.
Not to mention the cost of Sky is going up without a doubt. Apparently we shouldn't see a response from Comcast for a while according to sources as they have to figure out what they're going to do. I think Disney's bid really caught them by surprise.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I think Disney's current offer is better than $40.00 cash and is close to a wash of Comcast offers $41.00 a share. For me to vote in favor of Comcast, Comcast would need to pay $45.00 a share and Disney back out. The thing is I can't see Comcast being able to finance $45.00 a share for Fox plus $23 billion for Sky. Bankers would be crazy if they allowed that much debt.

You haven’t really kept an eye on bankers for awhile, have you???

And you haven’t noticed what indisputable morons are ultimately in charge of the money in the US currently...I assume?
 
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seascape

Well-Known Member
Not to mention the cost of Sky is going up without a doubt. Apparently we shouldn't see a response from Comcast for a while according to sources as they have to figure out what they're going to do. I think Disney's bid really caught them mby surprise.
Disney caught almost everyone by surprise. All the analysts thought Disney would wait until the Fox Board said Comcasts offer was better and give Disney 5 days to respond. As far as I can see no one except me thought Disney may respond at the Board meeting. I did not think they would make a new deal before the meeting. Anyway, if Comcast does make a new offer they have to do it soon because once the feds approve the Disney deal Comcast has to bet Disney by quite a margin. Also if Comcast does make another offer count on Disney going all out for both Fox and Sky. There will be total war if Comcast continues. Comcast may be able to win Sky if they back off on Fox.
 

Quinnmac000

Well-Known Member

Stripes

Premium Member
Well, Comcast could buy everything and then go around and sell off the domestic assets to help pay off their debt since they aren't that important to them it seems. That kinda gives me more belief that Comcast would rather go big and then make money to pay off stuff.
Those assets are worth far less when sold separately. They wouldn't recoup anything close to what they paid for them. Plus you have legal issues, it's absolutely not worth the headache.
 

Indy_UK

Well-Known Member
SKY are a company that has a bad rep so probably fit Comcast quite well. For me when Disney say all the time that people are cord cutting with ESPN, then why buy a TV distribution network?

Saying that, with Disney in charge of SKY, they could easily hide all their content behind a SKY paywall and continue to have the monopoly, in the U.K. at least
 

Twilight_Roxas

Well-Known Member
How many Sportcasters does Disney have to trade them for usage of the Marvel name in there parks along with the film rights to Hulk incase Comcast refuses to get Sky from Disney?
 

Stripes

Premium Member
SKY are a company that has a bad rep so probably fit Comcast quite well. For me when Disney say all the time that people are cord cutting with ESPN, then why buy a TV distribution network?

Saying that, with Disney in charge of SKY, they could easily hide all their content behind a SKY paywall and continue to have the monopoly, in the U.K. at least
I don't understand much about the UK tv market, but from what little I know, the value proposition for Sky is significantly undercut by Freeview. They've had strong financial results though, so they must have something compelling enough. Sports rights maybe?
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Disney caught almost everyone by surprise. All the analysts thought Disney would wait until the Fox Board said Comcasts offer was better and give Disney 5 days to respond. As far as I can see no one except me thought Disney may respond at the Board meeting. I did not think they would make a new deal before the meeting. Anyway, if Comcast does make a new offer they have to do it soon because once the feds approve the Disney deal Comcast has to bet Disney by quite a margin. Also if Comcast does make another offer count on Disney going all out for both Fox and Sky. There will be total war if Comcast continues. Comcast may be able to win Sky if they back off on Fox.

Disney and Fox are currently sitting in a clean room every day working through reg approvals and organizational structures, this connectivity allowed Disney to engineer that surprise counter offer. Comcast’s biggest mistake in this was waiting until June to make a bid. They should have done so in January, before much of this connectivity was established.
 

Indy_UK

Well-Known Member
I don't understand much about the UK tv market, but from what little I know, the value proposition for Sky is significantly undercut by Freeview. They've had strong financial results though, so they must have something compelling enough. Sports rights maybe?

Pretty much, the UK TV market is so oversaturated.

You've got SKY who will always have the latest movies and has pretty much most of the sports rights summed up. Then you Have Virgin Media which offers the same but over Cable but costs more for the same channels.

Then you have Freeview and Freesat. pretty much the same but one is over the air and one is satellite. About 60% of the main channels on these are what people are watching on SKY. Whats interesting is that BT who run a review type platform also have the UK rights to ESPN, so if Disney does get SKY, I wonder if they will trying get those rights back behind a SKY paywall.

The issue i feel with Cord cutting and using Platforms like Freeview are that they are so slow and painful use and navigate. I think Apple TV will the first device soon that will allow us to Cord Cut. All Four major UK channels will soon have Apps on apple TV. (BBC Player, ITV Hub, All 4 and My 5) add that to Netflix for cheap and the Disney streaming service and i think ill be ready to properly say goodbye to SKY
 

Stripes

Premium Member
Disney caught almost everyone by surprise. All the analysts thought Disney would wait until the Fox Board said Comcasts offer was better and give Disney 5 days to respond. As far as I can see no one except me thought Disney may respond at the Board meeting. I did not think they would make a new deal before the meeting. Anyway, if Comcast does make a new offer they have to do it soon because once the feds approve the Disney deal Comcast has to bet Disney by quite a margin. Also if Comcast does make another offer count on Disney going all out for both Fox and Sky. There will be total war if Comcast continues. Comcast may be able to win Sky if they back off on Fox.
Just wondering how you'd feel about Disney going to $45. Personally, if that DOJ leak turns out to be a dud, I could see the bidding capping out there. That would peg the cost at $84.15 billion. If the DOJ leak is on-point, which I suspect it is and some Disney source leaked it out, then I highly doubt Comcast will up their bid. I think they may be waiting around here for a bit to see if that report comes to fruition.

It's kinda hard not to get lost in all these analysts opinions. Some of them are quite reasonable, and others somehow think this is going to go on forever, talking about $50+/share bids. Like slow down there!

Sidenote: I keep seeing people online pegging the rumored $41/share counter by Comcast at $79-80 billion, in reality it's about $76.7 billion. Not sure if I'm being too picky there, but it bothers me :hilarious:
 
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seascape

Well-Known Member
Just wondering how you'd feel about Disney going to $45. Personally, if that DOJ leak turns out to be a dud, I could see the bidding capping out there. That would peg the cost at $84.15 billion. If the DOJ leak is on-point, which I suspect it is and some Disney source leaked it out, then I highly doubt Comcast will up their bid. I think they may be waiting around here for a bit to see if that report comes to fruition.

It's kinda hard not to get lost in all these analysts opinions. Some of them are quite reasonable, and others somehow think this is going to go on forever, talking about $50+/share bids. Like slow down there!

Sidenote: I keep seeing people online pegging the rumored $41/share counter by Comcast at $79-80 billion, in reality it's about $76.7 billion. Not sure if I'm being too picky there, but it bothers me :hilarious:
CFRA Capital has a 12 month projected price on Disney stock of $130.00. If one were to use that as a price to determine the Disney bid at the slue of Disney's offer is $21.606 in stock and $19.00 cash for a total of $40.606. The cash equivalent portion using a 20% tax rate would be over $5.00 more, (27*0.8=21.6).

Now I use a conservative 120 to 125 per share value for Disney so I still deal Disney wins in also all cases unless Comcast makes a foolish bid and over pays.
This should never be looked at as to how high a stupid bid the winner could afford but how high a bid can be made and still be a profitable bid. Fox including its debt is worth quite a bit but it is just not worth $55.00 a share and at $55.00 a share the top bid we would be $45.00 since $10.00 a share is New Fox. Bottom line is under no circumstances should Disney go over $40.00 a share even if Comcast goes to $45 or more. Any Fox shareholder who cares about the future of their assests and still wants a nice profit should take the Disney bid because at $50.00 a share and the underlying problem of cable tv all that bedt would destroy Comcast. Read some of the analysis of AT&T's finances. Given the increase in interest rates, drop in credit rating and need for massive investments to compete with 5G Comcast could easily go bankrupt will all that debt. Now if they were to go that high but using stock would dilute Robert's shares too much for him to stay in power because he overpaid and would no longer have 33% of the voting power.
 

happycamperuni

Active Member
I've been studying the numbers of what Disney would look like if they put out a $90 billion bid, assuming 50/50 cash/stock, and compared that to the impact of a $90 billion all-cash bid from Comcast.

Disney would increase their debt from their current bid of $74.79 billion to $84.14 billion. This would increase their leverage from 3.4x to 3.82x assuming 39% stake in Sky. (I didn't run the numbers including Sky simply because I think they'll give it up/sell it if they have to.)
This is something Disney would be comfortable with.

Disney would also have to issue about 96 million more shares at the midpoint of the existing collar for a total of 439 million new shares, this compares to initial and current bids of 515 million and 343 million shares, respectively. The midpoint is currently situated at roughly $104/share, about $2 dollars less than their current share price. This would mean that Fox shareholders would hold roughly 23% of the pro forma company. This is more than the current bid of 19%, but less than the initial bid where they would hold 25%. Disney should also be comfortable here.

Raising Comcast's bid to $90 billion all-cash would increase their debt from $170 billion to $195 billion, assuming there is no increase in their Sky bid, which there is likely to be, but I didn't include it for the sake of comparison. This would increase their leverage from 4.25x to 4.88x, in other words it would take them 5.36 years to pay down their debt to reasonable levels versus the 4.1 years of their current bid, assuming a decease of half a turn of leverage per year.

With this model, Disney would be able to return to attractive leverage 2 years before Comcast. I should also note that going this high for Comcast would almost certainly devastate their credit rating.

Have fun picking this apart! :D
If Comcast bids $90 billion cash, then the whole board should be ousted.

As an aside, I really don't see why Roberts is unwilling to bid stock. His family's stake is undilutable in voting power (B shares control 33.3% of Comcast's voting power no matter how many A shares there are; the A share class controls the remaining 66.7% regardless of share count).

Comcast should just step away if they insist on sticking to all-cash; there's no rationale for an all-cash bid at these prices. Comcast would approach $240 billion in total debt if they acquired Fox and Sky at those levels. That's just malpractice.
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
The rumor this morning on CNBC is comcast is trying to get a third party tech company to join them in the Fox bid. If that is true it's over and Disney won because if a tech company were interested they would buy Fox themselves. Google, Apple and Amazon could buy Fox with their petty cash if they wanted.

I think you are right, they already tried to get Amazon to go in with them and that didn't work. I can't imagine any of the others getting engaged. Tim Cook and Iger still seem to be buddies, so I doubt that will happen. Google has seems to have a less passionate interest in this space, and is a direct competitor of Comcast in the broadband space, primarily because it disagrees with how Comcast manages cable infrastructure. Chinese companies aren't going to play in this, so you end up with someone like Softbank, but I can't imagine they want to put their fingers into anything until they get out of Sprint.
 

Indy_UK

Well-Known Member
We’re obviously starting to see how his is going to end, so hopefully it will be sooner rather than later so Disney can let Marvel start planning their future films and Disney themselves can start getting the content prepped for their streaming service
 

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