Disney alienates 90% of their guests......What is going on?

[Disneyhead'71]

As far as whether or not to wallow in the magic by staying on-prop or off, I think it greatly matters what everyone's individual situation is. When I was younger with young children, AoA would have been great. As a 57 year old single/divorced guy, I much prefer staying off-prop at the J W Marriott at the Grand Lakes Resort. Now that I no longer have any, I find knee high screaming snot monsters kind of annoying.

 

[KrzyKtty]

Regardless we are staying at two deluxe hotels next year. It's because we really want to try them and no other reason. Now all the changes mean that we probably won't do club level. And it does think that I have to pay for parking, if I bring my car. And while they don't have the free bus service to the airport anymore, it is being replaced by a very convenient train. Yes you'll still have to pay for it, but I probably pay for the train rather than the free bus service anyway. The magic hours were nice sometimes, but I always preferred the evening ones and they haven't done that in a while. Not everybody likes waking up at the butt crack of dawn. Mostly I want to experience the monorail, the amazing pool at the beach club, being walking distance to two parks, and therefore not have to spend an hour in the bus transit.

I was probably going to buy our own magic bands anyway because I wanted cute ones rather than the basic ones. So I'm not missing a whole lot.

 

[DisneyAndADoleWhip]

FWIW, I've stayed onsite more post-covid than I ever did. I didn't care about the "missing" amenities, I was just happy to be there. I'm betting the average guest won't even notice what's missing. And if they do, they won't care.

Also, let's not forget, Disney (like every company) lost a TON of money during the pandemic. What they do to recoup is what everyone everywhere is doing. Doesn't make it fair, it's just the reality.

 

[ELG13]

We're the same. Except for us, we stay in a suite at AoA even though we're a party of 4 and could get a standard room at a deluxe resort for less money. For us, we want the much larger space, 2 TVs, 2 bathrooms, and a private master bedroom. I know there are thousands and thousands of people who stay in a standard deluxe room with 4 people every day and survive. We stay in standard high-end hotel rooms like that when we travel other places for shorter stays, but not at Disney. During our Disney trips, we want the accommodations that the suites offer. I'm tired of people telling us we could get an entire house off property or stay in a standard room at a Deluxe for the same price we pay for suite. We're very aware of that. We want to be onsite in a room/space that works for our family. It's not always about finding the best bargain. And we're certainly not willing to give up all the extras we get in a suite to move to a deluxe in order to *maybe* be able to take advantage of a few extra hours in the parks (we typically only do one evening EMH during a stay anyway -- so what are we loosing, 3 hours tops???) We'll stay in a suite with all the extra accommodations that make our stay enjoyable. We don't go on vacation to save money. We go on vacation to relax and have fun. Apparently the $10K we spend staying at a value resort is far less impressive to some people than the $10K we'd spend if we stayed at a deluxe. That's fine with me. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I don't mind being part of the the common folk. I just wonder where all the money from the value & mod resort guests go if it's the deluxe resort guests who are paying for everything?????

Same same same. I've tried so many times to find a cheaper spot that works as well for us, on site or off site, and nothing hits the spot like the cabins. We've considered AoA suites before but we like the porch and the privacy from the cabins. And the golf carts and decorating them etc. But we are in the same boat. When we go on vacation we want to save money when we can (obviously) but we arent going to sacrifice much for it. And truthfully, when I've looked at off site air bnbs it's usually MORE than we want or need. And then all the fees and you pay upfront. Or off-site hotels just....they are off site hotels so they don't feel like Disney. We were never rope droppers and now that we have little ones, we don't stay late. My mom comes and will sometimes let me and the hubs and the older kid run back for the last two hours (when they close at 9) and that's really all the extra we need. Now, we have purchased the sperate ticket event for magic hours or MNSSHP and I dont mind that extra charge because 1) er are AP holders so generally our park tickets arenalready paid for long before we go and 2) I really appreciate the LOW crowds. I can assure you when we do the cabins for 8+ days we are more than paying for the parks

 

[Doberge]

A benefit for paying more doesn't need to be viewed as a negative for those not receiving when paying less.

Looking at what is going on, the original question, Disney can sell value and moderate resorts without any problem, but Disney misses lost revenue needing to move people from values and moderates to deluxes to free value and moderate inventory. Rephrased, in many situations Disney can sell more value and moderate rooms than it has available so it makes room by upgrading some folks. This is a carrot for a family of 4 or 5 to upgrade from moderate to deluxe, in time reducing the number of "free" upgrades + increasing revenue.

Disney has more to worry about losing one deluxe room to off site than it is worried about losing value and moderate rooms to off site because those deluxe rooms are more difficult to fill AND the lost profit between them is greater. The quality change from values and moderates to off site is less drastic than the quality difference of deluxe to off site (meaning the likes of Four Seasons blows deluxes out of the water compared to moving, say, Coronado to Hilton) so Disney needs to do more to differentiate deluxe than it does to differentiate other classes that, again, sell well.

 

[ELG13]

A benefit for paying more doesn't need to be viewed as a negative for those not receiving when paying less.

Looking at what is going on, the original question, Disney can sell value and moderate resorts without any problem, but Disney misses lost revenue needing to move people from values and moderates to deluxes to free value and moderate inventory. Rephrased, in many situations Disney can sell more value and moderate rooms than it has available so it makes room by upgrading some folks. This is a carrot for a family of 4 or 5 to upgrade from moderate to deluxe, in time reducing the number of "free" upgrades + increasing revenue.

Disney has more to worry about losing one deluxe room to off site than it is worried about losing value and moderate rooms to off site because those deluxe rooms are more difficult to fill AND the lost profit between them is greater. The quality change from values and moderates to off site is less drastic than the quality difference of deluxe to off site (meaning the likes of Four Seasons blows deluxes out of the water compared to moving, say, Coronado to Hilton) so Disney needs to do more to differentiate deluxe than it does to differentiate other classes that, again, sell well.

I agree. It's like different levels of membership. I pay for the more expensive membership on netflix so more people can watch at the same time. Same with hotels. They pay more, so indo think that them having a few extra perks is ok. I think what gets lost in it is that the perks of paying more for the deluxe resort are the perks at that resort (monorail access, better dining options etc). And considering the perk for extra hours used to be something for all onsite guests...I can understand the irritation. I'm not exactly sure of the ins and outs of the hours so I could be mistaken that now it's only deluxe resort guests. Once I read "deluxe resort guests" on my email, I stopped reading

 

[jaklgreen]

Yes, but they are off site. That's the point. No matter how good an off site property is, it's still off site.

We want to stay on-site. That one ingredient seems to be the one that always gets missed in this discussion. "You can get better amenities for a lower price offsite!" Yes, but the amenities are not the deciding factor for us. It's being on-site.

The most important amenity for me is my safety and peace of mind. As a solo, female traveler, I feel(and most likely am) safer staying on property. I don't have to worry about driving to an offsite hotel at night and going back to my room in the dark. I get on Disney property, use their transportation, and am surrounded by dozens of other people at most times. There is no price on that. People, especially men, take it for granted that they have options available to them that are just not smart for someone in my situation. Even a group of woman are safer then a solo woman. Disney is probably the only place in this Country that I can feel that level of safety and security. Not to say that I let my guard down when I am walking back to my room. But it is so much better then the alternative.

 

[allgiggles]

Same same same. I've tried so many times to find a cheaper spot that works as well for us, on site or off site, and nothing hits the spot like the cabins. .....

I can assure you when we do the cabins for 8+ days we are more than paying for the parks

Yep! I've mentioned $10K as what our Disney vacation for 4 at a value resort costs, but that's a ballpark figure/average. Once we arrive, we never leave property for anything. So other than breakfast (which we typically eat in the room just to save time, but we do eat 1 or 2 breakfasts at the resort while we're there), every meal is purchased in the parks or at a resort. And we purchase all of our snacks and drinks throughout the day in the parks. And we don't ration snacks and drinks at all!! We also usually do at least one "paid" event/experience each trip as well -- like an Epcot fireworks cruise. We're covering the salary of a few CMs while we're there.

 

[Ayla]

Regardless we are staying at two deluxe hotels next year. It's because we really want to try them and no other reason. Now all the changes mean that we probably won't do club level. And it does think that I have to pay for parking, if I bring my car. And while they don't have the free bus service to the airport anymore, it is being replaced by a very convenient train. Yes you'll still have to pay for it, but I probably pay for the train rather than the free bus service anyway. The magic hours were nice sometimes, but I always preferred the evening ones and they haven't done that in a while. Not everybody likes waking up at the butt crack of dawn. Mostly I want to experience the monorail, the amazing pool at the beach club, being walking distance to two parks, and therefore not have to spend an hour in the bus transit.

I was probably going to buy our own magic bands anyway because I wanted cute ones rather than the basic ones. So I'm not missing a whole lot.

There is nothing convenient about the train, and it won't be done for years, if it's even built at all.

 

[Plowboy]

There's an old saying. "You get what you pay for". I think everybody has different expectations. Folks with kids want/expect different things than older people. Folks who haven't been to WDW before or are returning for the second or third time want/expect different things than people who have been 15 or 20 times. As retirees who've been to WDW more times than I can remember we have different likes/dislikes than younger folks. Yes, we enjoy renting DVC points and staying at a deluxe resort as much as the next family, but we've also stayed at Pop and All Stars many times. It's all about what you are happy with. All that being said, I will admit I am quite concerned about where Mr. Chapek and TDO are taking the WDW business model. The topics listed by the OP only scratch the surface. I'm amazed at what meal costs have done. As an example, I remember being able to go to the Biergarten not that long ago and getting out for under $100 for 2 persons (meal, drinks & tip). I'm sure in October I'll be paying $140-$150 for the same meal. Will we enjoy it? Yes. Will I be happy about it? No. Most likely we'll make it up by cutting out something somewhere else. We have begun shaving a day or 2 off our trips the last couple of years. Paying more for less only lasts for so long. While Messrs. Disney were certainly businessmen I have to think they are spinning right about now.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes, but they are off site. That's the point. No matter how good an off site property is, it's still off site.

We want to stay on-site. That one ingredient seems to be the one that always gets missed in this discussion. "You can get better amenities for a lower price offsite!" Yes, but the amenities are not the deciding factor for us. It's being on-site.

Perhaps Disney knows this. The most valued thing to a visitor to WDW is staying on site; reduction or loss of other things does not matter, Disney knows they will not lose the on site visitor no matter what they do. This is not baseless pride on Disney’s part, I am sure they have done the research.

As the OP stated, Disney may well make 90 percent of their guests feel alienated , BUT they will still stay on site anyway, and that’s perfectly OK, folks are free to choose.

Apparently the Disney Springs area resorts get enough business to stay in business anyway. I merely think competition is good and guests can possibly benefit from it.

 

[Disstevefan1]

While I agree that’s true… if ‘more’ people start to notice the lessened amount of incentives & quality compared to what they used to offer.. or at the very least, the incentives compared to what the competition is currently offering. They ‘will’ take notice and Disney will not quite be the “winner” in that scenario. The “always-supportive no matter what” customers will always be there, sure, but I believe the number of those particular customers will significantly be less if things keep up the way they are now.

Time will tell and I hope you are right and I think we agree, we don’t want Disney to lose business, we want them to stop taking stuff away; at least maintain a level of quality and value we have all come to love Disney for.

 

[SteveAZee]

I am staying at OKW in a studio over Christmas. I haven't stayed there since 2004. Do you have a recommendation of which area to request? Thank you.

If you can, it's helpful to stay near the Hospitality House... walk to the main pool, Olivia's, etc. We stayed in the cluster just west of HH and that worked out really well. It was also convenient for catching the bus to the parks... if you miss them at that stop on the way in, you can get over to the bus stop at the HH to catch it on the way out. It's popular, so request it as early as possible.

 

[allgiggles]

There is nothing convenient about the train, and it won't be done for years, if it's even built at all.

I was just going to say the same thing. The train is pubic transit that happens to make a stop across the street from Disney Springs. You'll need to take care of your own luggage and you'll need to take an additional form of transportation from the train station to your resort. You'll have to wait for the train at the airport location and then you'll have to wait for some other mode of transportation at the train station at DS. This train is not being built as a replacement for DME and really has nothing to do with Disney other than including a stop near Disney property. It's not going to be anywhere near as convenient as a bus that picks you up at the airport and takes you directly to your resort. And at this point, it's not going to be available for several years...if at all.

 

[KrzyKtty]

There is nothing convenient about the train, and it won't be done for years, if it's even built at all.

Should be done in the next two years from what I read. I don't see how it's any less convenient than the dang buses.

I don't see trusting somebody else with my luggage as a plus. I would never allow it out of my sight for that long.

I'm the sort that would have paid for an Uber or Lyft rather than use the bus system Disney was offering anyway.

 

[Hcalvert]

If you can, it's helpful to stay near the Hospitality House... walk to the main pool, Olivia's, etc. We stayed in the cluster just west of HH and that worked out really well. It was also convenient for catching the bus to the parks... if you miss them at that stop on the way in, you can get over to the bus stop at the HH to catch it on the way out. It's popular, so request it as early as possible.

Thank you. We are driving, so we will be not be using Disney transportation. Unfortunately, the pickings were slim when I booked last month through DVC, so I was unable to get a room near the hospitality house. I was able to get this room for $225/night during Christmas week, so I am not complaining.

 

[Ayla]

Should be done in the next two years from what I read. I don't see how it's any less convenient than the dang buses.

I don't see trusting somebody else with my luggage as a plus. I would never allow it out of my sight for that long.

I'm the sort that would have paid for an Uber or Lyft rather than use the bus system Disney was offering anyway.

Construction won't even be starting for a couple years.

 

[allgiggles]

Should be done in the next two years from what I read. I don't see how it's any less convenient than the dang buses.

I don't see trusting somebody else with my luggage as a plus. I would never allow it out of my sight for that long.

I'm the sort that would have paid for an Uber or Lyft rather than use the bus system Disney was offering anyway.

Mid 2026 is the most recent estimation for it to be operating. The construction start date has been delayed a few times just since it was announced last year.

Uber/Lyft will still be better than the train.

 

[castlecake2.0]

...and Disney seems to delight in continuing to alienate yet more people.

Disney released the list of hotels included in early theme park entry. Disney's Swan & Dolphin, and Shades of Green (in what Sam the Eagle and I would both call a "distinctly unpatriotic" move), have both been axed from the old "EMH" list of eligible resorts. Meanwhile, other non-Disney-owned hotels and Disney Springs good neighbors made the grade.

It would be pretty hard to screw up a simple cut-and-paste from the old EMH eligibility page to the new Early Theme Park Entry one, so I'm assuming the omission has to be intentional.

Early Theme Park Entry for Disney Resort Hotel Guests

Be our guest! Your wish is our command, as you enjoy this Walt Disney World service.

disneyworld.disney.go.com

They probably have different agreements with Disney in regards to what perks are offered.

 

[T-BoneMickeyFan]

This craziness alienates me and starting to lost the magic with Disney
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article252565098.html