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Disgruntled Disney Workers Give Leaflets At OIA
- Thread starter jcraycraft
- Start date
speck76
Well-Known Member
Dwarful said:
Unfortunately, unions protect the bad employees too....and it is not easy to get rid of them. Additionally, some employees never break the rules enough to get fired, but they also never perform up to the level that they should.
Unions were important 80 years ago when people were working 80 hour weeks and making less than $2 per day, but anymore, except for maybe trade unions (where the members actually have a skilled trade like welding or iron working or nursing......"service" is not a skilled trade) unions protect laziness, the "that is not MY job attitude" and enforce "good enough"....and as we all know, good enough never is.
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
I sincerely hope that you are treated at WDW with the similar attitude in which you display in your post.hakunamatata said:
How about that this isn't just the $6.00 an hour dishwashing CM's were talking about here. Were talking about people who make $6, $10, $14, and $18 an hour. Yes, the union represents ALOT more than just some low paid CM. Now, if you make $14 an hour, I'd say that's not a low paying wage job, and it's not one of those "hey if you don't like it leave" jobs. So, wouldn't it make sense for those CM's who do get paid better to be just as outraged at what the company is offering?
As far as someone being that upset that a union guy handed him or her a slip of paper as they walked by the Disney store at the airport. Get a grip, if that's all it takes to just ruin your vacation... I feel sorry for ya when you get charged $35 for a hamburger, 3 cokes and a fry at Disney.
I get the feeling that there are a few people on here, being paid by Disney to stir up the whole "Anti-Union" thing right now. Most people I know would NOT get this upset over someone handing a leaflet out at the airport.
As far as someone being that upset that a union guy handed him or her a slip of paper as they walked by the Disney store at the airport. Get a grip, if that's all it takes to just ruin your vacation... I feel sorry for ya when you get charged $35 for a hamburger, 3 cokes and a fry at Disney.
I get the feeling that there are a few people on here, being paid by Disney to stir up the whole "Anti-Union" thing right now. Most people I know would NOT get this upset over someone handing a leaflet out at the airport.
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think it depends on where you are from. In my area, unions are not regarded with much respect. The primary reasons are exactly what Speck noted earlier. They protect the sub-par employees and reward all equally.
I said I wasn't going to get into the union argument, but now I have to add my 2 cents. Unions are not needed today. There are enough people that WANT to work and would do a GOOD job without a union. Most companies would rather take care of their employees than put up with unions. In fact, a fortune 500 company in our area has done everything they could to keep unions out. They are one of the highest paying companies in the region and have some of the best benefits. They are also extremely merit based. You do a good job, you get rewarded. If you don't, you don't get a raise, and may get the boot.
Job performance should be the main goal of a company. And whether you want to believe it or not, most companies are willing to pay for good employees and at a rate that is equal to the position. If a union is involved, they will do their best to have a contract that will be best for them because they are bound by that contract.
I don't know if the government has done that or not, but for some reason, there are a lot of people that believe that way. I have worked my butt off to go from entry level pay to where I'm at today. I would say we are comfortable, but we don't spend much on luxury items. We also stay at Pop or the All Stars. Entry level positions are fairly even in the pay scales. I dare say that a cook at Disney probably makes the same as a cook at the same level restaraunt somewhere else.
I said I wasn't going to get into the union argument, but now I have to add my 2 cents. Unions are not needed today. There are enough people that WANT to work and would do a GOOD job without a union. Most companies would rather take care of their employees than put up with unions. In fact, a fortune 500 company in our area has done everything they could to keep unions out. They are one of the highest paying companies in the region and have some of the best benefits. They are also extremely merit based. You do a good job, you get rewarded. If you don't, you don't get a raise, and may get the boot.
Job performance should be the main goal of a company. And whether you want to believe it or not, most companies are willing to pay for good employees and at a rate that is equal to the position. If a union is involved, they will do their best to have a contract that will be best for them because they are bound by that contract.
I don't know if the government has done that or not, but for some reason, there are a lot of people that believe that way. I have worked my butt off to go from entry level pay to where I'm at today. I would say we are comfortable, but we don't spend much on luxury items. We also stay at Pop or the All Stars. Entry level positions are fairly even in the pay scales. I dare say that a cook at Disney probably makes the same as a cook at the same level restaraunt somewhere else.
PhotoDave219 said:
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I just erased a long response to this post. But, you know what, there is no arguing with someone who does not understand the basics of simple economics. So I shall just laugh......
:lol: :lol: :lol:
PhotoDave219
Well-Known Member
This has nothing to do with economic theory (which i understand entirely) yet rather has everything to do with the attitude and amount of respect youre conveying to the cast members who ensure that you have an enjoyable time.
Since you dont see it fit that we should be paid enough to be happy enough to meet the basic needs of life (food and shelter), I feel that we shouldnt care about YOUR happiness at the theme parks. Things arent the way you want them? Too bad, thats your problem.
Here's the new economic reality for you: Poor Pay From Management + Poor Guest Attitudes towards CM's pay = Unhappy CMs who arent going to be nice to you.
While there isnt much need for Unions in this day and age, Disney is unionized and its here to stay. Don't like it? Either deal with it or dont visit - just dont complain about the way youre treated, because as i see it, attitudes such as yours is part of the problem, rather than part of any solution.
Since you dont see it fit that we should be paid enough to be happy enough to meet the basic needs of life (food and shelter), I feel that we shouldnt care about YOUR happiness at the theme parks. Things arent the way you want them? Too bad, thats your problem.
Here's the new economic reality for you: Poor Pay From Management + Poor Guest Attitudes towards CM's pay = Unhappy CMs who arent going to be nice to you.
While there isnt much need for Unions in this day and age, Disney is unionized and its here to stay. Don't like it? Either deal with it or dont visit - just dont complain about the way youre treated, because as i see it, attitudes such as yours is part of the problem, rather than part of any solution.
Glasgow
Well-Known Member
I'm all for the CMs and other workers getting paid more, but where is that money going to come from? I think the ticket prices are already at a level where not everyone can afford them for a family of four. If you think the money is going to come from pay cuts at the top, then good luck prying it out of their cold, dead hands (yes, I think the execs are paid too much).
I wonder if everyone that is arguing for raising prices at Disney are the ones paying for their vacations or getting them paid for them. While I empathize for the workers/CMs and do greatly appreciate their service, I don't know if I could justify the higher costs (ie. would go less often). I guess it all comes down to each individual and their situation.
Anyway, here's hoping they find a mutually beneficial solution. We're certainly not going to solve the problem on this board! :lookaroun
I wonder if everyone that is arguing for raising prices at Disney are the ones paying for their vacations or getting them paid for them. While I empathize for the workers/CMs and do greatly appreciate their service, I don't know if I could justify the higher costs (ie. would go less often). I guess it all comes down to each individual and their situation.
Anyway, here's hoping they find a mutually beneficial solution. We're certainly not going to solve the problem on this board! :lookaroun
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
So, I'm reading where one girl who works at Disney is only going to have $80/wk if the proposal on the table goes thru in its current form. I also read where some here think that the "good" cms should be compensated for doing a good job. A couple of things come to mind here.
First of all, where is it written that you get compensated for doing a "good" job. Let me put it another way, bearing in mind that I wholly support the cms and their quest for better pay. Are we expected to reward mediocrity?
Good is good enough? I DON'T THINK SO!!!! When any of us are hired into ANY job, the expectation isn't that we'll do a "good" job. It is that we will go above and beyond our limits and expectations. Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. Now I know a lot of you out there will disagree with that stance, just based on the fact that we've had, unfortunately, a huge "dumbing down" of our society, which started in the early 90's. (hmm, who became President back then?). Our government created a "welfare" society that to this day, believes in social engineering and entitlement. In laymens' terms, redistribution of wealth. I'm all for the minimum wage being raised across the board. But let's take a poll. How many of you out there think that's going to happen, without a huge rise in costs of ALL products/services to all of us? Again, if you don't think so, YOU'RE DREAMING. So, at what cost are we willing to see the rate raised? And by how much? Allow me to connect the dots here. If we were to say that the rate across the board for low end entry level at Disney were raised to $7/hr, for over 15k people, how much is that to the company, compared to now? Furthermore, how much will that cost us as consumers? And what IF people begin to vacation elsewhere due to cost? Let's face it, in the end, it's about money for ALL of us. So, the numbers of visitors decrease, which causes shorter park hours, which causes lower payroll numbers, which slows down hiring, and shortens work hours. Shorter work hours means less paycheck for the cms. Tell me again who REALLY wins in the end? Allow me to answer that: the union leadership and the attys., that's who. Explain to me how this is good for the cms? You HAVE to take these things into the boardroom when you negotiate if you're on the side of Disney. You think they don't care? Why? Because they don't roll over and give in to the almighty union?
Now, as for this young girl with the lowered paycheck and roof problems. First, I would ask, doesn't she have homeowners insurance? Last time I checked, it was a requirement when purchasing a house. If she's renting, renters insurance. Secondly, I must ask, if it's going to be only $80/wk with the new contract proposal, what does she "take" home now? It can't be that much more. My real question is this. I'm a parent who pays A LOT of child support each month in addition to med. coverage for my child, so I feel a speak from experience. I would NEVER take a job that I KNEW wouldn't allow me to pay that child support and med. ins. I really have to question her judgement with regard to taking care of her child. I'm going to assume she is single by the wording of the post, and probably doesn't receive any support, which is terrible if true. Which bothers me even more. If she knows this, why take a job with a company that pays so little? So, I don't really know that I feel a great deal of sympathy for her situation, when I KNOW that there are options out there. Again, people are going for the emotion of this situation, instead of treating it for what it is. BUSINESS!!! And there are NO friends in business.
As for the leaflet thing, I do NOT agree with what is happening on that front. I can tell you that IF I chose to do the same with my company, I would be OUT OF A JOB!!! And bad-mouthing the company isn't going to help at the negotiating table. I know, it's a free country. Isn't that great? IT SI A FREE COUNTRY. Free to express our views on any subject without fear of punishment. Free to choose a job that pays the bills. (oops, did I say that out loud?). Free to think for yourself, and to take care of yourself, without the use of a mouthpiece (read union). I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF INDIVIDUALS.
HOW ABOUT YOU?
First of all, where is it written that you get compensated for doing a "good" job. Let me put it another way, bearing in mind that I wholly support the cms and their quest for better pay. Are we expected to reward mediocrity?
Good is good enough? I DON'T THINK SO!!!! When any of us are hired into ANY job, the expectation isn't that we'll do a "good" job. It is that we will go above and beyond our limits and expectations. Anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. Now I know a lot of you out there will disagree with that stance, just based on the fact that we've had, unfortunately, a huge "dumbing down" of our society, which started in the early 90's. (hmm, who became President back then?). Our government created a "welfare" society that to this day, believes in social engineering and entitlement. In laymens' terms, redistribution of wealth. I'm all for the minimum wage being raised across the board. But let's take a poll. How many of you out there think that's going to happen, without a huge rise in costs of ALL products/services to all of us? Again, if you don't think so, YOU'RE DREAMING. So, at what cost are we willing to see the rate raised? And by how much? Allow me to connect the dots here. If we were to say that the rate across the board for low end entry level at Disney were raised to $7/hr, for over 15k people, how much is that to the company, compared to now? Furthermore, how much will that cost us as consumers? And what IF people begin to vacation elsewhere due to cost? Let's face it, in the end, it's about money for ALL of us. So, the numbers of visitors decrease, which causes shorter park hours, which causes lower payroll numbers, which slows down hiring, and shortens work hours. Shorter work hours means less paycheck for the cms. Tell me again who REALLY wins in the end? Allow me to answer that: the union leadership and the attys., that's who. Explain to me how this is good for the cms? You HAVE to take these things into the boardroom when you negotiate if you're on the side of Disney. You think they don't care? Why? Because they don't roll over and give in to the almighty union?
Now, as for this young girl with the lowered paycheck and roof problems. First, I would ask, doesn't she have homeowners insurance? Last time I checked, it was a requirement when purchasing a house. If she's renting, renters insurance. Secondly, I must ask, if it's going to be only $80/wk with the new contract proposal, what does she "take" home now? It can't be that much more. My real question is this. I'm a parent who pays A LOT of child support each month in addition to med. coverage for my child, so I feel a speak from experience. I would NEVER take a job that I KNEW wouldn't allow me to pay that child support and med. ins. I really have to question her judgement with regard to taking care of her child. I'm going to assume she is single by the wording of the post, and probably doesn't receive any support, which is terrible if true. Which bothers me even more. If she knows this, why take a job with a company that pays so little? So, I don't really know that I feel a great deal of sympathy for her situation, when I KNOW that there are options out there. Again, people are going for the emotion of this situation, instead of treating it for what it is. BUSINESS!!! And there are NO friends in business.
As for the leaflet thing, I do NOT agree with what is happening on that front. I can tell you that IF I chose to do the same with my company, I would be OUT OF A JOB!!! And bad-mouthing the company isn't going to help at the negotiating table. I know, it's a free country. Isn't that great? IT SI A FREE COUNTRY. Free to express our views on any subject without fear of punishment. Free to choose a job that pays the bills. (oops, did I say that out loud?). Free to think for yourself, and to take care of yourself, without the use of a mouthpiece (read union). I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF INDIVIDUALS.
HOW ABOUT YOU?
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
Ohhhh, PhotoDave
I can't help it, I've just GOT to respond to your thoughts!!! So, you're going to be mean to guests because you don't get a pay raise. That's very professional and adult of you Dave. That's exactly what we're talking about here DAVE. Why should you be rewarded when you CLEARLY already have an attitude problem AND an axe to grind against the company? You didn't just come up with this attitude overnight. This is CLEARLY something that has been brewing for some time with you. Now it's OUR fault that you're not getting paid more. I see. We're all crazy and you're the sane one right? Okay DAVE!!! I gotta tell ya DAVE, this is NO way to get a pay raise. I might just be in upper mgmt. with the company. What IF I AM??? Hmmm, DAVE?!!!
This shows why there is class envy at the heart of this matter, and why Disney shouldn't give in to the demands of the union. You've gone off the reservation DAVE.
Ever consider a career change?
I can't help it, I've just GOT to respond to your thoughts!!! So, you're going to be mean to guests because you don't get a pay raise. That's very professional and adult of you Dave. That's exactly what we're talking about here DAVE. Why should you be rewarded when you CLEARLY already have an attitude problem AND an axe to grind against the company? You didn't just come up with this attitude overnight. This is CLEARLY something that has been brewing for some time with you. Now it's OUR fault that you're not getting paid more. I see. We're all crazy and you're the sane one right? Okay DAVE!!! I gotta tell ya DAVE, this is NO way to get a pay raise. I might just be in upper mgmt. with the company. What IF I AM??? Hmmm, DAVE?!!!
This shows why there is class envy at the heart of this matter, and why Disney shouldn't give in to the demands of the union. You've gone off the reservation DAVE.
Ever consider a career change?
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
PhotoDave219 said:
Dave, I'm not sure where to begin. I assume part of that could be pointed at me since I don't agree with the union. But here's the thing, I don't think the CM's should bad mouth their company in public manner. They do pay the check. Sure, it may not be what you want, but why would you bite the hand that feeds you. By that, I mean if those actions do what the union big whigs want, then it will affect the number of people visiting WDW. Why else would they do it? How else would someone reading a flyer make a difference? The only way they could hope to make a change would be to keep their money from the company. Hey, get enough of that happening and there will be people out of work. The CM's that the union is supposedly fighting for. The only people that win here is the union leaders who probably take a chunk of whatever raise the CM's may get.
Now, I'm going to visit in a few months and I hope that the CMs will do as they always have -- create a magical time for me and my family. I also hope they can come to an agreement on a contract. And, believe me, I sincerely hope that the ones that deserve a raise gets one.
SpaceRacer2003
New Member
This is just one of those topics that if you are not directly involved with you truly can not understand the scope, details and process of what is going on. I think Ms. Atta83 has it right.... this bantering is getting nowhere, lets just drop it. Enough said.
STGRhost
Member
Is it really bad mouthing the company if whatever the leaflets say is true?
I still have to say that it isn't fair to expect the same thing of Disney that we expect from other, "normal" companies like Walmart or even Six Flags, because business or not, Disney is NOT like other companies. Reading this thread, and all the emotions involved, should be evidence of that. And CMs are not supposed to be like other employees - they're supposed to be the friendliest, the most caring, etc.
I don't remember if it was only office/technical workers, but we actually got merit raises, so we were (allegedly) rewarded for good work. I got $.05 an hour. I can't think of anyone who got more than $.10 an hour in my department. (Whatever that's worth... :lookaroun )
As far as wages at Disney being comparable to wages at other jobs, I suppose that's probably true, but does it take into account the cost of living in Central Florida? I lived with 4 other people in a 3 bedroom apartment. I can't imagine trying to live on my own down there.
I still have to say that it isn't fair to expect the same thing of Disney that we expect from other, "normal" companies like Walmart or even Six Flags, because business or not, Disney is NOT like other companies. Reading this thread, and all the emotions involved, should be evidence of that. And CMs are not supposed to be like other employees - they're supposed to be the friendliest, the most caring, etc.
I don't remember if it was only office/technical workers, but we actually got merit raises, so we were (allegedly) rewarded for good work. I got $.05 an hour. I can't think of anyone who got more than $.10 an hour in my department. (Whatever that's worth... :lookaroun )
As far as wages at Disney being comparable to wages at other jobs, I suppose that's probably true, but does it take into account the cost of living in Central Florida? I lived with 4 other people in a 3 bedroom apartment. I can't imagine trying to live on my own down there.
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
SpaceRacer2003 said:
I see it this way... I thought that was what a forum was for -- sharing ideas, information and debating about topics of interest.
So Cast Members can't comment?SpaceRacer2003 said:
So others that work in Orlando tourism related jobs can't comment?
So guests that get the flyers can't comment?
I don't think these are actual cast members that are doing this. I think it's mostly union reps that aren't actually Disney. The same ones that have been going around the country protesting in NYC and in front of Disney on Ice shows in multiple cities.
Seems like it's a major waste of money to me.
Atta83
Well-Known Member
Yes some do not take it out on guest unlike how some cm have a crappy day and take it out on guest by being rude. Hennie you keep narrowing it to people and this has to stop. Also, no offense to Disneygirls frined but as Speck said I think her friend is stretching the truth. I know people who work for Disney that have benefits who come out with checks that are in well amounts.. Yes true that cm dont make much, but you can live off them. Yes, you can not have many things but those are only possesional. I mean if a six flag person is making more than a disney cm that's pretty sad in my eyes and people need to see this.
SpaceRacer2003
New Member
Let me try this again... if your a WDW CM and are taking an active role in your future than by all means feel free to contribute. If you want to take a sideline wait and see view thats fine too... if you really don't know whats going on (or you just think you know whats up) because you don't care enough to find out whats happening then don't assume you know what is going on.
Yes, the rallies/protests are supported by the unions and thier leadership, they are attended by the same leadership, BUT they are also attended by the line-level worker. Should we all that the day off to goto NYC, thats good guest service (sarcasim). The union represents the cast, they have decide to be represented by the union, so whats wrong with the union leaders doing just that, representing the cast.
As for treating guests poorly, I know Dave personally, I see him almost everyday at work, and can tell you that he is not one of the people he describes. It was a statement as an example. We all know when we have bad days, and when we have good days, and when we just don't want to put up with other peoples garbage. And if you really look at the equation it was Poor Leadership & Poor Treatment from Guests that leads to the unhappy CM. It did not say to treat the guests poorly.
Flame away if you wish... I get to play with fire all day long
Yes, the rallies/protests are supported by the unions and thier leadership, they are attended by the same leadership, BUT they are also attended by the line-level worker. Should we all that the day off to goto NYC, thats good guest service (sarcasim). The union represents the cast, they have decide to be represented by the union, so whats wrong with the union leaders doing just that, representing the cast.
As for treating guests poorly, I know Dave personally, I see him almost everyday at work, and can tell you that he is not one of the people he describes. It was a statement as an example. We all know when we have bad days, and when we have good days, and when we just don't want to put up with other peoples garbage. And if you really look at the equation it was Poor Leadership & Poor Treatment from Guests that leads to the unhappy CM. It did not say to treat the guests poorly.
Flame away if you wish... I get to play with fire all day long
HennieBogan1966
Account Suspended
I wonder how many of you out there who are saying that people who aren't directly involved in this matter, shouldn't comment, due to lack of knowledge, are some of the same people who THINK you know better than the President on matters of foreign diplomacy, domestic policy, and war!!! Point is this, to ASSUME that I or anyone else commenting on this thread doesn't understand what's going on, is to ASSUME that we're all ignorant, inexperienced, or stupid. Now, you didn't use those words, but you didn't have to. The FACT that some of you out there are saying that we who aren't THERE shouldn't comment is proof of those feelings that I described.
It also assumes that NONE of us commenting against the union in this case, haven't ever experienced similar types of work circumstances. The ignorance, my friends, is yours. What I do find interesting is one common thread throughout this conversation. The word UNION is much more prevelant in the comments of the union supporters, than the words cast members is. Point here is that those of us against the union views TRULY support the cast members, and not the IDEA of a union. Those of you for the union here, seem to support the IDEA of a union, more so than the economic FREEDOM of the cast members. What have they gotten for their union dues? Which once again, NO ONE will tell us WHAT the members pay in dues? How much the attys get paid? How much the union leadership gets paid? WHY IS THAT?!!!!! What are you all afraid of? Just answer the questions. If you're in the know? If you REALLY know what's going on there.
OR DO YOU?!!!
It also assumes that NONE of us commenting against the union in this case, haven't ever experienced similar types of work circumstances. The ignorance, my friends, is yours. What I do find interesting is one common thread throughout this conversation. The word UNION is much more prevelant in the comments of the union supporters, than the words cast members is. Point here is that those of us against the union views TRULY support the cast members, and not the IDEA of a union. Those of you for the union here, seem to support the IDEA of a union, more so than the economic FREEDOM of the cast members. What have they gotten for their union dues? Which once again, NO ONE will tell us WHAT the members pay in dues? How much the attys get paid? How much the union leadership gets paid? WHY IS THAT?!!!!! What are you all afraid of? Just answer the questions. If you're in the know? If you REALLY know what's going on there.
OR DO YOU?!!!