Disappointing Price Increase & Takeaway - F&W

[devoy1701]

If only there were a website dedicated to that... :lookaroun

The website wasn't a problem...the following though... Funny how many people were "into" the idea but now that we've tried to make it happen nobody wants to contribute. :brick:

I agree with your earlier post too and don't understand the mentality of worldfanatic! Especially the comment of not accepting free transportation to a great restaurant/food deal because all they care about is Disney World!

Someone who has been visiting regularly for the past 20 years should definitely notice the less for more happenings at WDW and should definitely care...

The pixie dust koolade must taste amazing!

 

[fillerup]

Sounds like these discounts have given some people a sense of entitlement, not a good look.

I'll field this one since I started the thread.

What I'm entitled to from Disney when I purchase my AP is this - park entrance, free parking & whatever discounts are printed in my pass booklet. Nothing more than that. I think the thread title says it - we're disappointed.

Disney is entitled to raise their prices to any level they choose. What they're not entitled to is my money.

This is a lose lose really. The increase leads us to the decision not to attend the seminars this year - something we thoroughly enjoy. And Disney loses the revenue.

Most seminars we went to the last two years were generally well attended but there were almost always empty seats. Some in fact were no more than a third to a half full. Well, there will be two fewer people in the customer base for 2011.

Forgetting the discount issue, I'm surprised (I shouldn't be I guess) that so many people are so sanguine about a year over year 25% increase. What if room prices, ticket prices, or food in general were increased by that much? I can imagine the howling.

 

[COProgressFan]

The website wasn't a problem...the following though... Funny how many people were "into" the idea but now that we've tried to make it happen nobody wants to contribute. :brick:

Not to stray too far off topic, but I think the site is well-intentioned and lots of folks want to contribute how they can. The reality is though, that many folks get to WDW at most a few times per year, and a significant majority even less than that. So it will certainly take a while to get things up to speed and be even more difficult to keep it updated.

 

[COProgressFan]

Forgetting the discount issue, I'm surprised (I shouldn't be I guess) that so many people are so sanguine about a year over year 25% increase. What if room prices, ticket prices, or food in general were increased by that much? I can imagine the howling.

In many instances, the increase has been nearly that much. Look at the dining plan from say, 5 years ago, or even the MYW tickets. Or food at table service establishments! The howling goes on regularly on these and other message boards.

Disney has decided to lower the quality of their product, raise prices, and then somehow scratches their head when spending or attendance is down....:veryconfu

 

[devoy1701]

In many instances, the increase has been nearly that much. Look at the dining plan from say, 5 years ago, or even the MYW tickets. Or food at table service establishments! The howling goes on regularly on these and other message boards.

Disney has decided to lower the quality of their product, raise prices, and then somehow scratches their head when spending or attendance is down....:veryconfu

as mentioned in the HM Holiday thread...for now (since 2007-2008) they can just use the economy as a scapegoat. It's going to be interesting what the TEA Annual Attendance report says next year though...if DL and Univ Orlando both see attendance increases while most of WDW sees decreases for the second year in a row...that should speak loudly!

 

[Epcotbob]

Just a general comment about Disney and pricing. I fully agree with the comments about supply and demand, it's the beauty of capitalism...companies are free to either prosper through smart pricing decisions or price themselves out of existence.

We used to take regular family (of 7) vacations to WDW, but no longer because the price hikes have priced us out....I don't complain about it, it's just a budget reality. I have recommended WDW vacations to friends, but many of them look at the price and just laugh and say "are you kidding me?". I think this in unfortunate because I'll bet they would enjoy it if they tried it just once, but the price keeps them away....so lot's of lost revenue for Disney.

So, while I will vehemently defend Disney's right to set whatever pricing they want, personally I think they would be wise to lower prices, bolster revenue, and then expand the parks to accommodate. Just a little more long term thinking instead of over focusing on short term profit.

 

[Tiggerish]

I'll field this one since I started the thread.

What I'm entitled to from Disney when I purchase my AP is this - park entrance, free parking & whatever discounts are printed in my pass booklet. Nothing more than that. I think the thread title says it - we're disappointed.

Disney is entitled to raise their prices to any level they choose. What they're not entitled to is my money.

This is a lose lose really. The increase leads us to the decision not to attend the seminars this year - something we thoroughly enjoy. And Disney loses the revenue.

Most seminars we went to the last two years were generally well attended but there were almost always empty seats. Some in fact were no more than a third to a half full. Well, there will be two fewer people in the customer base for 2011.

I agree with you--two years ago, when they first started charging for the wine seminars, we went to only a couple to see what additional value there would be for this formerly free event. There was none whatsoever. So last year, we went to no wine seminars, only culinary demos, which IMO were worth what WDW was charging for them. I noticed that the wine seminars were half-full, at best.

Like you, I'm disappointed that this year's discounts are smaller than last year's. Not saying I feel entitled. Just can't help but wonder why WDW does seem to be searching for the breaking point of what would seem to be its "most loyal" customers, DVC and AP holders. Aren't the regular visitors the target audience for the F&W Festival?

 

[PlaneCrazy1978]

I'll field this one since I started the thread.

What I'm entitled to from Disney when I purchase my AP is this - park entrance, free parking & whatever discounts are printed in my pass booklet. Nothing more than that. I think the thread title says it - we're disappointed.

Disney is entitled to raise their prices to any level they choose. What they're not entitled to is my money.

This is a lose lose really. The increase leads us to the decision not to attend the seminars this year - something we thoroughly enjoy. And Disney loses the revenue.

Most seminars we went to the last two years were generally well attended but there were almost always empty seats. Some in fact were no more than a third to a half full. Well, there will be two fewer people in the customer base for 2011.

Forgetting the discount issue, I'm surprised (I shouldn't be I guess) that so many people are so sanguine about a year over year 25% increase. What if room prices, ticket prices, or food in general were increased by that much? I can imagine the howling.

I couldn't agree with you more. What people don't get here is that we don't feel entitled to anything as AP holders. I'm sick of hearing that. Yes, I know that discounts are not guaranteed. What we are saying is this just STINKS that they are upping the price. Are we not allowed to be upset and say it? This is a good forum to vent because so many people are in the same boat.

And yes, I can only imagine the uproar if room rates, general food prices, or ticket prices increased 25% next year. Everyone would say the same thing, AP. DVC, or not.

 

[scottnj1966]

I am a passholder and a tables in wonderland card holder. I have had an annual pass for over ten years and tables in wonderland even before they changed the name.

Even though everyone has been hit by the economy we will need to have some fun. Disney is close to me so I am lucky that is my playground.

I understand sometimes things have to go up, but Disney has taken this to the extreme. they have increased prices at the nice restaurants, which seem to cover the discount from my tables of wonderland.
they have increased park tickets twice in 12 months, and parking now cost, what 14 bucks? yes I dont have to worry about that but its ridiculous.

I know the only thing Disney understands is attendance and profit these days.
You can see it everywhere now. So as people have said in this post, stop going.

Well of course I will not stop going but what I will be doing to cutting back.
Tables in Wonderland is now expired, not going to renew.
I have only gone to the parks this year, half the time.

When more people do things like this, Disney will have to change. They have in the past. Most recently was the 15 month annual pass for the price of 12.
I remember when Florida room rates dropped like crazy a few years back. I remember getting Wilderness Lodge for 99 bucks, and Coronado Springs for 69.

Disney just has had an influx of foreign visitors sicne our dollar is valued so low. When that changes (hopefully) then they will lose some of that and they will coem back to begging for us to come back, and knowing me, I will. No matter what I love the Disney parks. Just the feeling of spending time there always makes me happy. Just lately the cost of things bother me and it makes me visit less fun.


Thats my two cents. Disney is not concerned, I promise you that.

 

[DisneyJoe]

As a travel agency owner, and someone who also lives not too far from the New Jersey beach resorts, I am able to see that:

- many people don't realize that a WDW is comparability priced to other trips of the same type;
- many people spend MUCH more to go and just sit on a beach and watch the waves and then walk on a boardwalk and eat and play arcade games and do rides (a $100 book of ride tickets go very fast at 4 tickets per person per ride)
- prices increase at WDW and other locations too - and people keep going to all of them
- food pricing is comparable

Everyone complains about price increases - but it's not unique to Disney.

 

[coachz]

There are WAY better deals around Orlando. It is a city where every restaurant entrepreneur who wants to try a concept builds a restaurant. The market is SO competitive. I have found such incredible deals for restaurants, wine and beer tastings throughout the town. We had attended F&W for >10 years, but last year was the best yet. No money spent at F&W, though we did eat in some Disney restaurants.

If you're from out of town and don't know where to look, F&W may still offer you something. But with research and planning and a car, you can do much better. Sorry, I can't share all the easy pickings---that would flood the market.

But Disney has stepped over the line for me and for most of my friends. And they just keep moving the line!

WOW...GO try wichita for even better DEALS...IF you want to visit #1, ....

 

[jlevis]

As a travel agency owner, and someone who also lives not too far from the New Jersey beach resorts, I am able to see that:

- many people don't realize that a WDW is comparability priced to other trips of the same type;
- many people spend MUCH more to go and just sit on a beach and watch the waves and then walk on a boardwalk and eat and play arcade games and do rides (a $100 book of ride tickets go very fast at 4 tickets per person per ride)
- prices increase at WDW and other locations too - and people keep going to all of them
- food pricing is comparable

Everyone complains about price increases - but it's not unique to Disney.

Yeah, take your family to a baseball or football game.

 

[Condorman]

Disney does not post its annual attendance numbers, so anything the TEA reports each year is its best-guestimate and always has been, which still could be +/- 100,000 or 1,000,000. My point is for every two people who return to WDW, one person comes who has never been. You will never actually know what cutting Disney out of your life does to their bottom line. There will always be someone else out there to take your place.

And as mentioned earlier, Disney does not make cost-cutting or price-increasing decisions like this without first doing all the math. You may not like the changes, but they have already determined that losing 15% of repeat customers will be made up for in a 25% price increase. Every business does it. The true Kool-Aid drinkers are the ones who think Disney is some sort of non-profit, charity-based puppet show that should freeze every attraction and menu, its very atmosphere, in a time capsule and never-ever change, pretty please. Get over yourselves.

You're visiting (or not) Disney world. Stop living in a "Disney" world.

 

[roadtripper]

My mom was interested in going there with a friend, but after I told her the price for a studio at Boardwalk or Beach Club she said she could take an all inclusive cruise for $1000 less. She cruises often so I believe her. That's sad.

 

[jlevis]

My mom was interested in going there with a friend, but after I told her the price for a studio at Boardwalk or Beach Club she said she could take an all inclusive cruise for $1000 less. She cruises often so I believe her. That's sad.

There are a lot of off property places to stay that are less costly than those on property.

 

[Victor Kelly]

Since my honeymoon was my 40th trip I have seen the good and the bad side of Disney. I have watched everything grow since I was 5 and we took yearly trips sometimes twice in a year. It was expensive back then, it is horribly expensive now. Some would say prohibitivly. My wife and I could never afford to take children to the parks from Maryland every year. It is just not fiscally possible. And we can just go to local amusement parks for 1/100th the cost, and that is buying AP at Hersheypark. No it does not change every year, but neither does Disney.

For me and many of my friends, where there used to be yearly trips, it is now every 5 years. Disney is pricing themselves out by offering less, having less to do, just look at the shuttered restaurants, shops and attractions at the parks. I won't even start with the PI fiasco because it disgusts me. While I detest Universal right now, they are moving ahead, and their number show it. Disney can keep their attendance secret....who cares. The place to look is the $$$$ signs. That is a more accurate indicator of people's clenching their wallets shut.

People are voting, people are not going. And sometimes it seems Disney is bouyed by foreign visitors while the Americans are unemployed, and jobs get sent overseas. Americans are becoming tight fisted with their money, I know my wife and I are.

 

[nerdboyrockstar]

What I've learned about any kind of Disney event (F&W, the Christmas parties, TIW events) is to go the first year they do it and hold on to the memories. Each year thereafter is usually just price increases and lessened offerings.

 

[Tigger1988]

As a travel agency owner, and someone who also lives not too far from the New Jersey beach resorts, I am able to see that:

- many people don't realize that a WDW is comparability priced to other trips of the same type;
- many people spend MUCH more to go and just sit on a beach and watch the waves and then walk on a boardwalk and eat and play arcade games and do rides (a $100 book of ride tickets go very fast at 4 tickets per person per ride)
- prices increase at WDW and other locations too - and people keep going to all of them
- food pricing is comparable

Everyone complains about price increases - but it's not unique to Disney.

Yup, spend a weekend in Seaside Heights or Point Pleasant. See how much you spend on terrible quality food, subpar rides (most of which don't even look safe) and arcade games. You'll never complain about Disney's prices again.

 

[jakeman]

So just an observation from a long time F&W goer (and the same argument every year when this comes up)...

When these were free the only deterrent was the time you would spend in line. It got so bad that waits would be up to 90 minutes during the weekend for a 20 minute presentation.

They started to charge (I think two years ago) to either: a) line their tubs with another layer of conflict diamonds, or b) try something to stem the tide of people at these tasting.

They increased the quality of the tastings (in my opinion) to somewhat compensate for the price.

Charging allowed for people to hold their spot, but at the initial price point they still sold out relatively quickly at peak times.

So here we are, the market is bearing a higher amount than they are currently charging. If last year was any indication, they may still sell out relatively early in the day for all available showings.

I guess we will wait and see.

 

[poocher]

So just an observation from a long time F&W goer (and the same argument every year when this comes up)...

When these were free the only deterrent was the time you would spend in line. It got so bad that waits would be up to 90 minutes during the weekend for a 20 minute presentation.

They started to charge (I think two years ago) to either: a) line their tubs with another layer of conflict diamonds, or b) try something to stem the tide of people at these tasting.

They increased the quality of the tastings (in my opinion) to somewhat compensate for the price.
Charging allowed for people to hold their spot, but at the initial price point they still sold out relatively quickly at peak times.

So here we are, the market is bearing a higher amount than they are currently charging. If last year was any indication, they may still sell out relatively early in the day for all available showings.

I guess we will wait and see.

I agree with almost everything you say, but I'd have to disagree that the quality is up. In the first 13 years, there were complex presentations with winemakers who let you pipette and mix raw wines from the barrel, they would bring in unreleased products, they would have as many as 6 wines to try, and they would contrast "reserve" vs. "regular" products or several years of the same wine. I remember experiments peeling grapes and tasting the peels vs. the pulp. I remember eating lemons, jelly beans, etc. before tasting wines to see how the taste buds were affected. Back then the retail prices of the wines served were up to $120.

The current wine tastings have become standardized with 3 wines, mostly cheaper ones, and they do nothing you wouldn't expect to do in your local wine shop......for free or for cheap. Disney used to be the place where you could do a wine tasting that was unique and special. Has anyone been to a paid event with any of the features I mentioned above?

And to the folks who would like a hint about where I have found major food and wine deals: I reviewed my list and couldn't find one that could stand a major influx of food and wine lovers. Sorry. It's taken me years of trading tips to build my list and it allows me to still have a rewarding F&W Fall.