Tomi-Rocket
Well-Known Member
Why not the dining plan? Personally I prefer to have 99% of my trip paid off before going.
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Dining with characters is done
- Thread starter Ronnie Sanford
- Start date
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Because it has driven prices up to astronomical levels (to provide DDP guests perceived value) and made menus smaller (to streamline).
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
And made it incredibly difficult to get reservations at restaurants that don’t even deserve it.
networkpro
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
As well as lowering the food quality as the reimbursement rate per meal doesn't support higher quality ingredients thanks to "value maximizers"
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I would invite you to analyze prices since DDP arrived. The worst offenders are the removal of lunch menus since people apparently want a $60 steak at 11:30 am. That is purely because DDP guests thought a $17 burger was a waste of a credit.
Buffet prices are also a great example. $45 for pancakes?
It’ll most likely return when traditional meet and greets return.
Correlation does not mean causation. Those changes also coincided with Disney's push into overdrive their effort to maximize per guest spending.
People who think restaurants would have continues a large selection of food made with quality ingredients, with lots of reservation availability last minute are kidding themselves.
The dining plan didn't cause any of it. It's just the tool Disney used to get where they planned to be one way or another.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I’m glad you think that, but that is incorrect. DDP directly caused the changes I mentioned.
I got it. The dining plan is the devil. You could walk up to any venue and be seated in 10 minutes to order a $10 steak if it weren't for that dang dining plan.
If that makes you feel better, then go for it.
But Disney has left no stone unturned in their effort to maximize per capita guest spending. There's no way that segment of their revenue was going to stay how it was. Dining plan or not.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Either way with food being not as good as it once was, I'm surprised so many such a big deal for ADRs. There is far better food off property for much cheaper.
Time is money when you're at Disney. Well, for most anyway. Exiting a park and going offsite takes precious time away from what you came and paid to do.
drew81
Well-Known Member
We shall see.
Absolutely not. Disney in the 90s made a big push to improve food quality. They hired Dieter Hannig, who gave restaurants a lot of autonomy in creating menus, sourcing ingredients and trying to allow each restaurant to offer their own unique experience. Guests were happy to pay high premiums, if the quality was deserving. With the advent of the DDP, they completely got rid of this entire mindset. Guests pre-paid for their food and Disney was charging astronomical prices for the plans. This led to three key changes:
1) Drive up the cost to justify to the rubes buying the plan that it was a worthwhile investment ($60 character buffet is joke).
2) Cut back on quality since these people paid for their food in advance
3) Drastically reduce menus to reduce prep time, which allowed for volume over quality.
It now became, basically, cruise ship dining across property. You force restaurants to homogenize menus and service offerings (only two restaurants on property now bake their own bread vs many before, for example) to meet what they company is already buying.
Obviously there's some variance, especially at signature places but overall the restaurant offerings at WDW are far more expensive and of a drastically inferior quality than they were pre-dining plan. No longer are there 10-12 entree choices, there's 5-6. Buffets for example used to offer actual prime rib, but because that was too expensive to serve people who had already paid for their meal, they switched to much cheaper cuts. After a 10 year hiatus I visited Chef Mickey's just prior to COVID, I was shocked at what they were calling food. Gone were the homemade restaurant-specific recipes (the parmesan mashed potatoes they used to serve were heaven), in was the defrosted Sysco stuff.
Another stupid anecdotal example is I remember one F&B exec bragging in an employee communiqué about how proud they were to have trimmed the type of French fries served at Disney restaurants from 11 to 2. Previously you could find a great variety (curly fries, shoestring, etc). Personally I loved the seasoned fries at Flame Tree. Now it's the same thing at every restaurant basically, with only a few limited exceptions. It's a minor example but goes to this cruise ship mentality.
Hannig left Disney in 2009, conveniently around when the dining plan was rolled out. Here's an article about the changes he brought, which went out the window when DDP came into being:
Dieter Hannig leaving Walt Disney World Co. - Scott Joseph Orlando Restaurant Guide
Dieter Hannig, who is credited with changing the face of restaurants and dining at Walt Disney World as the vice president of the food and beverage division,
www.scottjosephorlando.com
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peter11435
Well-Known Member
It’s funny how misinformed this post truly was
GimpYancIent
Well-Known Member
Hey! News flash! Dl and WDW are not SD or HKD the name Disney is about the only true similarity with rides that are similar as for guest preferences and behaviors there are a lot of differences. Character appearances have been happening already i.e. Beast at Be Our Guest just one example. The signature interactive character dining experiences for WDW and DL are definitely coming. It is sad some folks make such poor analytical conclusions on minimal data and low understanding of human behavior.
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Slightly off topic, but not completely - two 8th graders were able to eat at The Good Turn and leave a tip without much of a thought about prices. We really felt like adults that day. I also recall walking around and we imagined all the high school and college age girls thinking of us as cute.
WDW food prices are nuts right now. I’ve done 6 family reunion trips with my DVC points over the last 20 years. The 7th and last one ever will be summer of 2022. Both sides of the family. All different income levels. I’m thinking of suggesting counter serve/use your room most of the time with one nice sit down in a park and one at a resort for the whole group. Lack of dining plan makes meals pleasantly optional. We’ll also have at least one day where I will cook a DVC kitchen feast for everyone.
I'm not disagreeing with you about any of that. I'm just saying that the dining plan isn't the devil. Cost cutting to serve the stock overlords is the problem. It was coming one way or another. The dining plan is just the tool they used to get there.Absolutely not. Disney in the 90s made a big push to improve food quality. They hired Dieter Hannig, who gave restaurants a lot of autonomy in creating menus, sourcing ingredients and trying to allow each restaurant to offer their own unique experience. Guests were happy to pay high premiums, if the quality was deserving. With the advent of the DDP, they completely got rid of this entire mindset. Guests pre-paid for their food and Disney was charging astronomical prices for the plans. This led to three key changes:
1) Drive up the cost to justify to the rubes buying the plan that it was a worthwhile investment ($60 character buffet is joke).
2) Cut back on quality since these people paid for their food in advance
3) Drastically reduce menus to reduce prep time, which allowed for volume over quality.
It now became, basically, cruise ship dining across property. You force restaurants to homogenize menus and service offerings (only two restaurants on property now bake their own bread vs many before, for example) to meet what they company is already buying.
Obviously there's some variance, especially at signature places but overall the restaurant offerings at WDW are far more expensive and of a drastically inferior quality than they were pre-dining plan. No longer are there 10-12 entree choices, there's 5-6. Buffets for example used to offer actual prime rib, but because that was too expensive to serve people who had already paid for their meal, they switched to much cheaper cuts. After a 10 year hiatus I visited Chef Mickey's just prior to COVID, I was shocked at what they were calling food. Gone were the homemade restaurant-specific recipes (the parmesan mashed potatoes they used to serve were heaven), in was the defrosted Sysco stuff.
Another stupid anecdotal example is I remember one F&B exec bragging in an employee communiqué about how proud they were to have trimmed the type of French fries served at Disney restaurants from 11 to 2. Previously you could find a great variety (curly fries, shoestring, etc). Personally I loved the seasoned fries at Flame Tree. Now it's the same thing at every restaurant basically, with only a few limited exceptions. It's a minor example but goes to this cruise ship mentality.
Hannig left Disney in 2009, conveniently around when the dining plan was rolled out. Here's an article about the changes he brought, which went out the window when DDP came into being:
Dieter Hannig leaving Walt Disney World Co. - Scott Joseph Orlando Restaurant Guide
Dieter Hannig, who is credited with changing the face of restaurants and dining at Walt Disney World as the vice president of the food and beverage division,
There is zero chance we were getting to current day Disney without those changes even if the dining plan never existed.