Different way of handling queues?

[celluloid]

You will have to ride Star Tours as a "Journey to get there." All randomizations will end on the Galaxy's Edge ending and one motion base will be disabled so the cabin shows the ride footage.

 

[Movielover]

You will have to ride Star Tours as a "Journey to get there." All randomizations will end on the Galaxy's Edge ending and one motion base will be disabled so the cabin shows the ride footage.

And then stand in a even longer line at Guest Relations to complain about all the logistical nightmares that this would cause.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

I'll bet you got them scared now. It is amazing how so many of us went there for years and years before FP existed and still go back again and again and still have fond memories of pre-FP life. Oh, well, I guess if you want to limit what you be able to see waiting for that illusive FP to be in hand, then that just leaves a shorter line for the rest of us.

Before FP+, I remember when Pirates and Haunted Mansion was a walk on. Now it’s a 30 / 40 minute wait.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Actually, it's got nothing to do with what you did or didn't do "pre-FP". It has to do with physical disability and not being capable. But thanks for being arrogant and thinking you know everything. It adds so little to, well, anything constructive.

How do you think that people with handicaps got into and on the rides before FP. They were directed to the ride exit and helped with boarding. FP's are limited in numbers, that service was not limited. Whatever one you needed was available unless it had stairs or some other barrier. I will grant you that back then people were less inclined to fake problems to get on a ride quicker, but, never the less, if you needed assistance you got it. I know how it worked because I used to escort individuals with problems. Everything from mental challenges to Cerebral palsy to WDW well before all the bells and whistles were added. So in this case I don't think I know everything, I do know and have experienced it first hand. My point was if you are going to rely strictly on FP's to avoid a line, then you are going to see a lot fewer attractions then what was once available. FP's were not initiated to be the answer to people with problems, it has just been used to help with that now. It's not arrogance it is shared knowledge. FP has caused far more problems for handicapped as well as physically capable guests since it showed up. Being in a hurry was the reason for it's creation, not only did that not become the way it worked it, quite possibly, did the opposite over the course of a whole day.

It was not my intent to offend you, it was my attempt to let you know that there were other options. If you got there they were set up to help with whatever you needed.

 

[Purduevian]

Before FP+, I remember when Pirates and Haunted Mansion was a walk on. Now it’s a 30 / 40 minute wait.

Correlation does not equal causation. While FP+ might be extending the line some, it is the not the only factor moving it from a 0 min wait to 40 minute wait. FP+ Debuted in 2014, MK attendance in 2013 was 18,500,000 guests. In 2017 the attendance was 20,450,000. In that time MK has only opened 1 new ride (7dwarfs), but has an extra 2 million guests a year. I realize FP+ makes some people angry, but saying if we eliminated it that Haunted Mansion and Pirates would be a walk on is laughable to me. Other factors increasing line time could include:

-Online Education/research (5 classic Disney World Rides you CAN'T Miss)
-Increased prices causing families to "Get their Money's worth" (Get as many rides in as possible, who cares about ambiance and exploring)
-Crowd based staffing on attractions decreasing ride efficiency
-Willingness to wait longer for better attractions due to phones keeping people more occupied
-Updates to Pirates of the Caribbean and a mega movie franchise based on the ride increasing popularity
-Reduction in EMH

Does FP+ increase standby time? Yes
Is FP+ the only thing affecting standby time? No
You may not like it, but many people would be very upset if it went away.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

There will actually be two lines. One goes to the attraction. The other, you're turned into Soylent Green for serving the rest. The odds are roughly 50/50.

 

[networkpro]

There will actually be two lines. One goes to the attraction. The other, you're turned into Soylent Green for serving the rest. The odds are roughly 50/50.

Confirmed! We've got the use case for the Skyliner queues!

 

[Goofyernmost]

Correlation does not equal causation. While FP+ might be extending the line some, it is the not the only factor moving it from a 0 min wait to 40 minute wait. FP+ Debuted in 2014, MK attendance in 2013 was 18,500,000 guests. In 2017 the attendance was 20,450,000. In that time MK has only opened 1 new ride (7dwarfs), but has an extra 2 million guests a year. I realize FP+ makes some people angry, but saying if we eliminated it that Haunted Mansion and Pirates would be a walk on is laughable to me. Other factors increasing line time could include:

-Online Education/research (5 classic Disney World Rides you CAN'T Miss)
-Increased prices causing families to "Get their Money's worth" (Get as many rides in as possible, who cares about ambiance and exploring)
-Crowd based staffing on attractions decreasing ride efficiency
-Willingness to wait longer for better attractions due to phones keeping people more occupied
-Updates to Pirates of the Caribbean and a mega movie franchise based on the ride increasing popularity
-Reduction in EMH

Does FP+ increase standby time? Yes
Is FP+ the only thing affecting standby time? No
You may not like it, but many people would be very upset if it went away.

I agree that it does increase standby time and that isn't the only thing that does that, however, I am have been talking about the psychology of the poor, apparently, unworthy guests in the standby line that have to wait and wait and wait for the "privileged" FP holders to legally jump in front of them like they are nothing more then minced underwear. A theme park ride should be fun for everyone and in order to be fun, things have to be considered fair to each and every paid admission to the park. Before the line kept moving. One didn't have to try and figure out how many more "line jumpers" are still coming before they can enjoy the ride. Some may not like it if it is taken away, but, a whole lot more people are upset that it exists and completely takes unreasonable time away from there enjoyment of the parks while standing motionless in that standby line watching others that probably go to the park hours after they did, casually walk on ahead of them.

Every person that uses a FP at some point in the day has to stand in the line at places like Pirates or some other that just didn't have any available FP's left. That means that everyone should have a hands on understanding of what that feels like. Without FP it is first come, first serve. If you didn't get there early enough you had a wait, but, it wasn't anywhere near as long as it is now. And it KEPT MOVING! FP's isn't the complete culprit, but, it did exacerbate the problem when attendance increased. Pirates was never a walk on back then, but, it was probably 20 minutes tops. That is a big difference if there are other things that one wants to experience. I am talking about in the time when there were only two parks, but, it was already the vacation, must do, capital. There were plenty of off season times when it was easy to get on as many rides or shows as you wanted and it was crowded. A lot of the 2 million increase in attendance now is the filling in of those lighter times. That 2 million didn't show up all in one day.

 

[DisneyDodo]

FP+ is a zero-sum game. For each attraction, it will cause some to have much longer waits, while others have much shorter ones, and it all balances out to the same mean wait time. It's a matter of opinion whether you find this system better or worse. It's not completely random who ends up benefiting from the system - for example, those who plan ahead and those who stay on WDW property will gain at others' expense. But the bottom line is that it's just a redistribution of utility.

The way to improve the overall guest experience is to add capacity. At any moment in time, there is a limit to the number of guests who are being "entertained" (on a ride, shopping, eating, using the restrooms, etc.). The rest of the guests are in line, waiting. The goal should be to maximize the ratio of entertainees to waiters (in addition, of course, to maximizing the value of the entertainment itself). This is precisely where Disney has been struggling.

 

[No Name]

A cool, innovative, never-before-seen way of handling a queue is designing the ride to have a solid hourly throughput. Part of FoP’s problem is that, for the most popular ride at the resort, it’s got a capacity of under 1,500 an hour. Galaxy’s Edge‘s two rides don’t look to be significantly higher and that will cause the same levels of stress. Higher hourly capacity allows for more guests to ride the ride. Every other solution is just masking the issue and will lead to future headaches.

 

[danlb_2000]

FP+ is a zero-sum game. For each attraction, it will cause some to have much longer waits, while others have much shorter ones, and it all balances out to the same mean wait time. It's a matter of opinion whether you find this system better or worse. It's not completely random who ends up benefiting from the system - for example, those who plan ahead and those who stay on WDW property will gain at others' expense. But the bottom line is that it's just a redistribution of utility.

The way to improve the overall guest experience is to add capacity. At any moment in time, there is a limit to the number of guests who are being "entertained" (on a ride, shopping, eating, using the restrooms, etc.). The rest of the guests are in line, waiting. The goal should be to maximize the ratio of entertainees to waiters (in addition, of course, to maximizing the value of the entertainment itself). This is precisely where Disney has been struggling.

There is an argument to be made that it isn't a zero sum game. Any inefficiencies in the mixing of the FP and standby can lead to lower throughput then the ride would have had if it was just standby.

 

[mikejs78]

There is an argument to be made that it isn't a zero sum game. Any inefficiencies in the mixing of the FP and standby can lead to lower throughput then the ride would have had if it was just standby.

That would only be true if there were times when they had to hold the ride up because they didn't have enough guests, or if they launched empty. I don't know about you, but I've never once seen this. Usually after the merge there is another small line, which indicates that any inefficiency from the merge isn't causing the rides to operate at lower capacity.

 

[danlb_2000]

That would only be true if there were times when they had to hold the ride up because they didn't have enough guests, or if they launched empty. I don't know about you, but I've never once seen this. Usually after the merge there is another small line, which indicates that any inefficiency from the merge isn't causing the rides to operate at lower capacity.

I have heard other people make that argument, but have never been sure if it really was valid.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would not be surprised if Disney is still trying to figure out exactly what they will do as I think the opening will eclipse anything we have seen in the past including Potter.

I full expect them to close the land to guests when it reaches capacity just like the did with Pandora. It would also not surprise me one bit if they use the fastpass system for the land itself as well as the attractions. One way traffic like they did in the final years of the Osborne Lights seems like a given as well.

All fastpass and no standby for the attractions when the section opens to the general public does not seem to be out of the realm of possibility either.

Well...I’ll be “in the area” August 12-16...so it will be interesting to see how they even attempt to handle it.

I’m also interested how it’s all received...it’s been a foregone conclusion that it’s gonna a packed “universal love and peace for all things in a celebration of Star Wars...that’s given us so much”...
And no doubt...the Disney lifers will be there and act the part...
But I’m wondering about the non-disney inclined fanbase...and those that won’t spend to go at all costs?

It will be interesting...even moreso if the First Con Man runs the economy into the ground this year (I’ve tried every casino to see if they’ll take that bet...none of them will touch it )

 

[Rogue1138]

You will have to ride Star Tours as a "Journey to get there." All randomizations will end on the Galaxy's Edge ending and one motion base will be disabled so the cabin shows the ride footage.

That would've been a really cool way of entering GE. Star Tours ends on Batuu and you exit directly into GE. Star Tours has a better guest capacity so it could've acted as a staggering point for crowds.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm deeply curious to see how things will fare at a park like Disneyland, which has many, many attractions to eat Star Wars overflow, but not as much guest pathway space, vs a park like Hollywood Studios which has nearly the inverse problem.

Indeed...and that was one of my logical disputes about mgm in the first place.

Studios doesn’t really have anything...it never has. You see that with a 2 hour wait for alien saucers - which blows to be honest.

Taking movie ride out was a stupid move. If they wanted a mickey ride...there was an easy method: build a warehouse to put it in.

Florida is gonna be a nightmare. Be warned.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is an argument to be made that it isn't a zero sum game. Any inefficiencies in the mixing of the FP and standby can lead to lower throughput then the ride would have had if it was just standby.

This has never been about increased or decreased throughput. We all know that if a ride can handle 500 people per hour it doesn't matter how many lines are there it will still only handle 500 people. It is about position in that line and how it affects you directly. If you have two side by side lines and you are 50th in that line. Who will get on the ride first, the 50th in the FP or the Standby line. If you are 50th in a single line of 100. Will you get on before the 100th? Same number of people, different location in line and no accelerated movement in only one of two of them. However the 100th will get to ride 12 minutes later and every subsequent 50 will be riding in 12 minutes or less. Add the extra FP line that keeps replenishing itself constantly, FP will all get to ride quickly and the more people that show up in it will consistently hold back the line in Standby. I has no choice but to slow the standby line to a crawl. There just are not going to be able to magically put more people on then capacity.

If you are stuck in standby, you are being screwed over by people, through no fault of their own, are taking advantage of a badly flawed system that ignores one group of full admission paying guest and catering to another group of full paying guests simply because they won the mini-lottery and were able to get a FP ticket at no additional charge.

After having spent years in the single line system it is very obvious that it does adversely affect the standby guest disproportionately. The lines were long, yes but they were constantly moving and when you got to get on the attraction was solely dependent on when you physically got into the line. I saw and lived the difference in time. I saw and lived the hostility, frustration and anger in those watching people that slept in, had a leisurely breakfast and were still able to leave them standing in line in the heat and stroll right past them. The overall degree of fun and enjoyment of the place diminished by a huge degree. That is the reason that there are always these discussion with people that are lucky enough to secure a FP for a specific attraction and justifying via an erroneous comparison with throughput when it has nothing to do with it in and of itself. The very fact that it doesn't increase the throughput is the reason for the problem. The problem is not the movement of humanity, it is about the unwarranted discrimination of one arbitrary line over another arbitrary line.

Yes, people in the standby line will switch places at least 3 times in a day and be in FP lines. However, the time lost standing idle in the standby line will erase any gain in time in the FP line. It's just physics and math.

 

[matt9112]

Actually, it's got nothing to do with what you did or didn't do "pre-FP". It has to do with physical disability and not being capable. But thanks for being arrogant and thinking you know everything. It adds so little to, well, anything constructive.

GAC

 

[mikejs78]

It's just physics and math

There's a whole science around this called queuing theory. And the math supports the view that it's a zero sum game. Standby lines move less, yes. But they are physically shorter because of FP. There are a finite number of people in the park at any one time and therefore a finite number of people available.to wait on lines and go on attractions. You may not like the way FP makes the lines feel, or that FP causing you to have to schedule things takes some of the fun away. Those are perfectly valid arguments. But to say that it makes waits longer simply isn't supported by the math or the data.

 

[Capsin4]

This has never been about increased or decreased throughput. We all know that if a ride can handle 500 people per hour it doesn't matter how many lines are there it will still only handle 500 people. It is about position in that line and how it affects you directly. If you have two side by side lines and you are 50th in that line. Who will get on the ride first, the 50th in the FP or the Standby line. If you are 50th in a single line of 100. Will you get on before the 100th? Same number of people, different location in line and no accelerated movement in only one of two of them. However the 100th will get to ride 12 minutes later and every subsequent 50 will be riding in 12 minutes or less. Add the extra FP line that keeps replenishing itself constantly, FP will all get to ride quickly and the more people that show up in it will consistently hold back the line in Standby. I has no choice but to slow the standby line to a crawl. There just are not going to be able to magically put more people on then capacity.

If you are stuck in standby, you are being screwed over by people, through no fault of their own, are taking advantage of a badly flawed system that ignores one group of full admission paying guest and catering to another group of full paying guests simply because they won the mini-lottery and were able to get a FP ticket at no additional charge.

After having spent years in the single line system it is very obvious that it does adversely affect the standby guest disproportionately. The lines were long, yes but they were constantly moving and when you got to get on the attraction was solely dependent on when you physically got into the line. I saw and lived the difference in time. I saw and lived the hostility, frustration and anger in those watching people that slept in, had a leisurely breakfast and were still able to leave them standing in line in the heat and stroll right past them. The overall degree of fun and enjoyment of the place diminished by a huge degree. That is the reason that there are always these discussion with people that are lucky enough to secure a FP for a specific attraction and justifying via an erroneous comparison with throughput when it has nothing to do with it in and of itself. The very fact that it doesn't increase the throughput is the reason for the problem. The problem is not the movement of humanity, it is about the unwarranted discrimination of one arbitrary line over another arbitrary line.

Yes, people in the standby line will switch places at least 3 times in a day and be in FP lines. However, the time lost standing idle in the standby line will erase any gain in time in the FP line. It's just physics and math.

This was fairly robustly evaluated a few years ago by people in the Disney planing industry and the conclusion was that, controlling for things like attendance growth, FP+ increased stand by wait times for some attractions, decreased them for some and had no effect on others.