DHS Soundstage 1 Renovation - Toy Storia Mania expansion

SirLink

Well-Known Member
Sorry, that is a diversion that holds no water because if it were to prevent fraudulent accounting, they would need to do it more than just these projects. They do it because it required additional spending - spending that impacts the company's financials and extends the numbers beyond their normal capital investment. Because the CFO had to stand in front of analysts and explain why capEx is up and it's impacting short term numbers. It's all because it changes the status quo of spending and profits. When you do things that impact the public reporting in a significant fashion.. you get more oversight.



And what.. nearly 10 years later... this 'could have' proposal has never seen the light of day, from insiders, former employees, or current employees. In fact, it's never even been hinted at or inferred. So yes, you can always hold onto the conspiracy theory that it's hush-hush never to be mentioned... or go with what the facts tell you.

What facts may they be ... I didn't realise you read the Board's minutes that day the proposal was approved for funding .... well one could infer that the reason why NFL got a miniscule budget and was all M+G was to prepare for "experiences" which they could implement NG crap into... but we all know you "love" this technology so at this point it is difficult for me to argue with an obsessed individual.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
but we all know you "love" this technology so at this point it is difficult for me to argue with an obsessed individual.

No, I simply understand a business is ran differently than a fan wishes it was done. I don't know if Disney's choice was the right one... it had potential but their execution has been poor. But I can still separate what I may have wanted as an individual from what it means to run a business larger than yourself. Most fans on this site only think about what they want on their next trip.. not what it means to run a business that is supposed to last for generations.
 

njDizFan

Well-Known Member
I guess I'm really this dense. I just don't understand what they're doing that fits the description of the strategy; the only thing anyone has offered is MyMagic+, so that's the aspect I was commenting on and asking about, for those - like yourself - who understand Disney's motivations better.

Basically I don't care what it's called, I just want better parks, but when we're told we're not getting decent attractions anymore, and they're not even trying to compete with Universal, because of Blue Ocean, I don't think it does any harm to try to understand the logic a little instead of just assuming they know what they're doing and we'll all get better parks in the long run.
I think the best example of disney using the blue Ocean strategy and sorry for the pun...is DCL. That was an untapped market, cruises with families in mind. For years the industry catered to adult travelers, the retirees and honeymooners. Bringing kids into the equation was brilliant. and still to this day no one is even close in competition with DCL.
 
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MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
I know for a fact, from several people involved, that projects were canceled left and right on both coasts as a result of MyMagic overruns. Some were postponed and are now being revisited (at least being looked at again), others were canceled permanently. At least one of the projects was Star Wars related. Also, a large chunk of the Imagineering workforce was laid off last December/January as well due to the sudden halt on projects. I would not say it's accurate at all to say that the parks weren't affected by the cost of MyMagic+.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
I know for a fact, from several people involved, that projects were canceled left and right on both coasts as a result of MyMagic overruns. Some were postponed and are now being revisited (at least being looked at again), others were canceled permanently. At least one of the projects was Star Wars related. Also, a large chunk of the Imagineering workforce was laid off last December/January as well due to the sudden halt on projects. I would not say it's accurate at all to say that the parks weren't affected by the cost of MyMagic+.
The cuts stemming from the overruns of MM+ are getting to be way too much. We've lost entertainment, possible projects, we're getting cheap projects and now Imagineers are being cut. Sure I've found some aspects of the bands to be convenient but it's just not worth it imo.
 

BrerJon

Well-Known Member
I know for a fact, from several people involved, that projects were canceled left and right on both coasts as a result of MyMagic overruns.

Are your sources as good as Flynnibus's though? He's been very clear that not a single thing was cancelled or changed because of MyMagic+, so I don't know what to believe.
 

SirLink

Well-Known Member
No, I simply understand a business is ran differently than a fan wishes it was done. I don't know if Disney's choice was the right one... it had potential but their execution has been poor. But I can still separate what I may have wanted as an individual from what it means to run a business larger than yourself. Most fans on this site only think about what they want on their next trip.. not what it means to run a business that is supposed to last for generations.

I don't think you do ... you simply side with Wall Street bedfellows who are nasty bedfellows at that. If TWDC was thinking about long term profits and not the short term. People would have less of an issue.

E.g.Take for instance, Disney had both Frozen and Tangled in development hell for years. Why not take a chance and include respective dark rides for both properties in the NFL project plans or at the least have an expansion pad set aside for development of those properties.

E.g. Marvel whilst still looking good on paper ... and would of still of flourished under Paramount with their distribution & marketing ... one has to wonder what will happen when the superhero films end up being like Westerns and Pirate films with Hollywood and the chic goes. What then ....

Most fans on this site want simply to have TLC in the parks - well maintained, well cleaned, unique merchandise, refreshed entertainment over time.

That is not too much to ask from this company. Something that was true once which is no longer true. Hell I'd be more impressed with any CEO that ended the whole One Disney mentality.

As for the other aspect, the draw for hotels will always be parks and the the draw for the parks will always be new attractions ... it is just a few of us keep them inline with the quality bar set within the first 20 years of operation.
 

Spencerrr

Member
I think the best example of disney using the blue Ocean strategy and sorry for the pun...is DCL. That was an untapped market, cruises with families in mind. For years the industry catered to adult travelers, the retirees and honeymooners. Bringing kids into the equation was brilliant. and still to this day no one is even close in competition with DCL.


Didn't carnival do that years before?
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
I know this is old information and I'm sure things have probably changed, but didn't they take away the coaster for Avatar in favor of using it instead at DHS for a speeder bike coaster?
Speed bike! That's it. I think light cycle was TRON. And yes, you are correct. It was said that the coaster was originally planned for AVL but I don't know if it was specifically cut for SWL.
 

Spencerrr

Member
Carnival? There niche was (IMHO) young single folks in their 20's and 30's. If any cruise line catered to families with kids, I think it was Princess.
I have been on probably 12 or so cruises and carnival was one of the first lines to have "camp carnival" an all day program for children not to mention on board entertainment such as arcades, a teen only disco, water parks, etc...

Princess and other lines have similar things now but carnival was doing it first and for a much more family friendly price.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Are your sources as good as Flynnibus's though? He's been very clear that not a single thing was cancelled or changed because of MyMagic+, so I don't know what to believe.

Once again... You can't seem to process information coherently. No point in reading this anymore
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Another thing that I think enters into the "growth" perception of Disney, in general, is that people like myself first went to WDW with no real expectations. I was blown away, not only by what I saw, but the feeling that I felt in connection to my family and the fun we had.

Since that date, I have enjoyed new attractions, mourned the loss of older ones and just went because walking through the gates has never failed to bring back that warm feeling that I felt when I first walked in. That kinda brings it down to three possible types of guests that go there.

There are people like me that don't go pursuing something new, in fact, are happiest dealing with the familiar things that brought me joy in the past. I don't even attempt to see a new attraction for, I'm guessing here, three years after it opens. (sorry, never documented the exact time span) I don't want to stand in horrific lines just to see something new. I'll wait until the novelty wears off and then check it out.

The second is the individual that needs something new. They, and I don't mean this as an insult, do not carry the nostalgic memories, the things that come from deep within that touch us and leave an imprint in our being that enjoy re-experiencing something that was good before. Instead, they need something new that after experiencing will just become something I did in the past... what else ya got! Until then "Hasta la vista, baby"!

Then there's the middle group that just goes because they think that they should to bring their children, etc. They do not get invested in it at all. They just see it, nod, and leave. They are even embarrassed to tell people that they went to a kiddie park and (gasp) enjoyed it. They don't care one way or the other if it's old stuff or new stuff. To them it doesn't matter.

Disney knows this. They also know how far ahead that they are over Universal. They know that the well that Comcast opened up is not bottomless. If there isn't sufficient return on that investment, once they get through that initial boost, will become a whole lot more conservative. I wouldn't be surprised to see a third gate at Uni because, frankly, if they are ever to be taken seriously when compared to WDW, they have to look like a very big game. For them that is a very expensive proposition. Walt purchased all that land for, what was it, $89 per acre? Don't remember. But it has been paid for for many, many years. To expand to any significant degree Uni must spend huge amounts of money just for swamp land. Disney knows this too.

If they seem complacent and not in any hurry, they have a very good reason to be that way. They are, at least seemingly, spending more money in the parks then they have in years. They let that go far to long and that, to me, is the only reactionary concern that Disney has shown in response to Universal. I wish I could say that they are fools, but, I don't think that they are. They are letting Comcast spend their entire budget to change USF. Once they have done that then Disney can decide... #1 If they need to react to it or #2 What they need to do to react to it. Walt once said that what they had was the blessing of size. The new saying is that Disney has the blessing of being the big cheese, so to speak, thus affording them the blessing of time.
 
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Mike S

Well-Known Member
Another thing that I think enters into the "growth" perception of Disney, in general, is that people like myself first went to WDW with no real expectations. I was blown away, not only by what I saw, but the feeling that I felt in connection to my family and the fun we had.

Since that date, I have enjoyed new attractions, mourned the loss of older ones and just went because walking through the gates has never failed to bring back that warm feeling that I felt when I first walked in. That kinda brings it down to three possible types of guests that go there.

There are people like me that don't go pursuing something new, in fact, are happiest dealing with the familiar things that brought me joy in the past. I don't even attempt to see a new attraction for, I'm guessing here, three years after it opens. (sorry, never documented the exact time span) I don't want to stand in horrific lines just to see something new. I'll wait until the novelty wears off and then check it out.

The second is the individual that needs something new. They, and I don't mean this as an insult, do not carry the nostalgic memories, the things that come from deep within that touch us and leave an imprint in our being that enjoy re-experiencing something that was good before. Instead, they need something new that after experiencing will just become something I did in the past... what else ya got!

Then there's the middle group that just goes because they think that they should to bring their children, etc. They do not get invested in it at all. They just see it, nod, and leave. They are even embarrassed to tell people that they went to a kiddie park and (gasp) enjoyed it. They don't care one way or the other if it's old stuff or new stuff. To them it doesn't matter.

Disney knows this. They also know how far ahead that they are over Universal. They know that the well that Comcast opened up is not bottomless. If there isn't sufficient return on that investment, once they get through that initial boost, will become a whole lot more conservative. I wouldn't be surprised to see a third gate at Uni because, frankly, if they are ever to be taken seriously when compared to WDW, they have to look like a very big game. For them that is a very expensive proposition. Walt purchased all that land for, what was it, $89 per acre? Don't remember. But it has been paid for for many, many years. To expand to any significant degree Uni must spend huge amounts of money just for swamp land. Disney knows this too.

If they seem complacent and not in any hurry, they have a very good reason to be that way. They are, at least seemingly, spending more money in the parks then they have in years. They let that go far to long and that, to me, is the only reactionary concern that Disney has shown in response to Universal. I wish I could say that they are fools, but, I don't think that they are. They are letting Comcast spend their entire budget to change USF. Once they have done that then Disney can decide... #1 If they need to react to it or #2 What they need to do to react to it. Walt once said that what they had was the blessing of size. The new saying is that Disney has the blessing of being the big cheese, so to speak, thus affording them the blessing of time.
Why no middle group of people who still like and enjoy the old stuff but would still like to see something new that doesn't take 5-6 years to build? Cause that's where I am.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Why no middle group of people who still like and enjoy the old stuff but would still like to see something new that doesn't take 5-6 years to build? Cause that's where I am.
You fall under the #1 category unless you decide to stop going because there is nothing new. If you do that then you are #2 category. I would like to see something new as well, but, not having it will not stop me from going. I probably fall into the #1.5 being older and knowing that my window of opportunity is closing down on me. So, if they are going to do some new stuff, I would naturally like to see it happen soon. However, something new is not my motivation for going there. Love to see something, but, it will not be part of any deathbed statement I might make. "My only regret is not living long enough to see Star Wars at WDW."
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
You fall under the #1 category unless you decide to stop going because there is nothing new. If you do that then you are #2 category. I would like to see something new as well, but, not having it will not stop me from going. I probably fall into the #1.5 being older and knowing that my window of opportunity is closing down on me. So, if they are going to do some new stuff, I would naturally like to see it happen soon. However, something new is not my motivation for going there. Love to see something, but, it will not be part of any deathbed statement I might make. "My only regret is not living long enough to see Star Wars at WDW."
Now I see. If anything ever made me stop going to Disney World it would be the drops in overall quality. To deal with the lack of new I've been going to Universal as well for about every one of my recent trips. It also gives a good variety going to both. My upcoming trip to Disneyland will probably be a real eye opener since WDW is all I've ever known.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
I don't believe that's the point. The point is it is something that differentiates WDW from the rest for the time being and when people do create a similar experience, MM+ will have been in place for so long that it will be seen as whatever park (let's say Universal since they like spending money) copying Disney.

That's the key. The world is moving in the direction of how the whole MM+ system works anyway. Other theme parks eventually will HAVE to do something similar as the public will expect it. Not only because Disney has it, but because the world in general is moving towards it. Just look at the iPhone 6 and the NFC payment feature for example.
NFC technology is hardly an apple exclusive.

Goggle wallet and android phones (specially Samsung) ones has had the functionality for years.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
They may not be building at a rampant rate like Universal is (and Universal is going much faster than most companies ever go), but i've been to the Magic Kingdom a lot this year and unless i'm crazy, they have a new day parade and a new attraction in Fantasyland.

So no, they are not "out of the attractions business". They're just slacking.
Magic Kingdom is the most protected park of all the 4.
AK and DHS for example, had a lot removed before they started to add the minimum. Now seems EPCOT is suffering the same.

Whilst I do agree with you; when Disney is throwing up DVC and roping people into return visits they need to be more concerned about new additions. It's still the best place in the world to visit, but we all know that things really need touching up and fresh experiences need to be a priority. Lets hope Avatar/Pixar/Star Wars deliver the goods. (And that I'm still alive when they finally finish construction).

at Disney's building rates, better start saving for an scooter first ;)
You might be a grandgranpah when they finish constructions lol!
 

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