DHS Makeover - What we know so far.....

[Magenta Panther]

Right.

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Muppets-Just-Hit-Brand-Low-Ratings-103117.html

Quoted for truth: The “series low” distinction comes in two forms. For one, the show was watched by a total of 3.78 million viewers, which is lower than any of the preceding eight episodes in Season 1. Last week’s episode was the second-lowest, with 3.89 million tuning in, and there has basically only been one episode so far that didn’t see a decline in viewers since the show debuted in September. That’s highly discouraging at best, and cancelation-worthy at worst.

And beyond total viewers, The Muppets was also down in the key 18-49 demographic, for which it received a dismal 1.1 rating, according to TV By the Numbers. This show is basically geared toward people of exactly that age group, so it’s kind of mind=boggling that it’s underperforming in that respect.

You want more?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Right.

http://www.cinemablend.com/television/Muppets-Just-Hit-Brand-Low-Ratings-103117.html

Quoted for truth: The “series low” distinction comes in two forms. For one, the show was watched by a total of 3.78 million viewers, which is lower than any of the preceding eight episodes in Season 1. Last week’s episode was the second-lowest, with 3.89 million tuning in, and there has basically only been one episode so far that didn’t see a decline in viewers since the show debuted in September. That’s highly discouraging at best, and cancelation-worthy at worst.

And beyond total viewers, The Muppets was also down in the key 18-49 demographic, for which it received a dismal 1.1 rating, according to TV By the Numbers. This show is basically geared toward people of exactly that age group, so it’s kind of mind=boggling that it’s underperforming in that respect.

You want more?

But folks here can continue reporting on how well it is doing. Because shows that are doing well commonly have major staff changes like we've seen.

I hope it rebounds.

 

[doctornick]

More from a galaxy far far away.

I understand Martin cannot comment more, but let's talk about this anyway....

So, the first question that pops into my mind is whether this is something just for DHS or also for DL. DL obviously has specific space limitations that DHS won't have (though I suppose if they really wanted, they could remove Toontown for more Star Wars content in DL).

The second question is timetable. Would this potential additions be at the same time as the initially planned build for a phase 2 for that project?

Then I wonder if this would be a continuation of the planned land or would it potentially be a second land/environment (either adjacent or separate).

I kinda hope that DHS is getting "extra" stuff relative to DL. This will help to differentiate DHS, which needs the help to forge an unique identity. Furthermore, that would work well with the development -- DL would open first, as appears to be the current plan, and so people will flock there first when they just have to experience it right away. Then DHS could open with the same land as DL to start and just get a more general Star Wars boost (as opposed to the "have to see it first" crowd). Then, once the crowds have evened out, they open the additional Star Wars content which will provide a boost but in a park better able to handle it.

 

[dhall]

Incredibles does has a sequel on the way though which could be a source for more material. That said, I tend to agree that Incredibles isn't as rich with stuff to use for a theme park land -- Monsters Inc would be my choice for something novel and immersive.

Incredibles makes sense as an east-coast re-skinning of DCA's Marveland project.

 

[Next Big Thing]

But folks here can continue reporting on how well it is doing. Because shows that are doing well commonly have major staff changes like we've seen.

I hope it rebounds.

It's doing great in the core demographic of 18-34... that's actually where the majority of it's viewership is coming from and is beating almost all other shows in that category. That's what Disney cares about as they are the most captive audience.

 

[DisneyManOne]

Well, we can all take comfort in knowing that the second season of the Muppet TV show will be better than the first. Inside the Magic just posted an article about all the changes coming to the show, courtesy of their new showrunner Kristen Newman. Here are the changes.

1. Kermit and Piggy will be getting back together, and the show will revert to a rom-com style structure.
2. A human antagonist will be added.
3. Newman already helped restructure the Christmas episode, paving the way for a show change.
   
4. Old characters will be returning, like Camilla and Lew Zealand.

More info here: http://www./2016/01/the-muppets-new-showrunner-opens-up-about-midseason-changes/

 

[Magenta Panther]

You wanted more? You got it!

From Variety: ABC fared best with “Fresh Off the Boat” (0.8/3 in 18-49, 3.8 million viewers overall), but then dropped off at 8:30 p.m. with “The Muppets” (0.5/2 in 18-49, 1.9 million viewers overall). It’s been a rough close to the year for “The Muppets,” which averaged a mere 0.3 in 18-49 and 1.2 million total viewers for its four repeats on Sunday night.
http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/ratings-kennedy-center-honors-down-cbs-1201669607/

From TV Fanatic:
ABC's attempt to bring more viewers to The Muppets didn't drum up much interest. The four-episode mini marathon started with 1.9 million viewers and a 0.4 rating among 18-49. The second episode scored just 1.3 million viewers and a 0.3 rating. Episodes 3 and 4 both managed just 1 million viewers and a 0.3 rating. Don't expect ABC's midseason revamp of the show to turn the show around. It'll be gone by May!
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2015/12/tv-ratings-report-the-muppets-encores-very-low/

Isn't it interesting that people who actually write about TV for a living disagree with all of the armchair ratings analysts here?

 

[Mike S]

You wanted more? You got it!

From Variety: ABC fared best with “Fresh Off the Boat” (0.8/3 in 18-49, 3.8 million viewers overall), but then dropped off at 8:30 p.m. with “The Muppets” (0.5/2 in 18-49, 1.9 million viewers overall). It’s been a rough close to the year for “The Muppets,” which averaged a mere 0.3 in 18-49 and 1.2 million total viewers for its four repeats on Sunday night.
http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/ratings-kennedy-center-honors-down-cbs-1201669607/

From TV Fanatic:
ABC's attempt to bring more viewers to The Muppets didn't drum up much interest. The four-episode mini marathon started with 1.9 million viewers and a 0.4 rating among 18-49. The second episode scored just 1.3 million viewers and a 0.3 rating. Episodes 3 and 4 both managed just 1 million viewers and a 0.3 rating. Don't expect ABC's midseason revamp of the show to turn the show around. It'll be gone by May!
http://www.tvfanatic.com/2015/12/tv-ratings-report-the-muppets-encores-very-low/

Isn't it interesting that people who actually write about TV for a living disagree with all of the armchair ratings analysts here?

 

[Andrew C]

So.....If I am understanding correctly, because a Muppet sitcom aimed towards adults is struggling (which is still up for debate), a greater park presence (which is what right now, possibly a restaurant?) aimed towards families is doomed to failure?

 

[LieutLaww]

Yes, from a certain point of view

 

[ToTBellHop]

Well, we can all take comfort in knowing that the second season of the Muppet TV show will be better than the first. Inside the Magic just posted an article about all the changes coming to the show, courtesy of their new showrunner Kristen Newman. Here are the changes.

1. Kermit and Piggy will be getting back together, and the show will revert to a rom-com style structure.
2. A human antagonist will be added.
3. Newman already helped restructure the Christmas episode, paving the way for a show change.
   
4. Old characters will be returning, like Camilla and Lew Zealand.

More info here: http://www./2016/01/the-muppets-new-showrunner-opens-up-about-midseason-changes/

Sounds wonderful.

 

[Homer fan]

any new clues or guesses to the new name? Also, I would think the icon wouldn't be announced or shown until we know what phase 3 will be, as it may be included (ala dragon at AK)

 

[boufa]

So.....If I am understanding correctly, because a Muppet sitcom aimed towards adults is struggling (which is still up for debate), a greater park presence (which is what right now, possibly a restaurant?) aimed towards families is doomed to failure?

And there is the issue.... Not sure if the tomorrowland movie has anything to do with the success of the magic kingdom. How about the haunted mansion movie....oh, or there is always the huge hit with the 18-49 demo... Splash mountain/song of the south. Maybe the Muppets are not translating well to TV in this modern era. (while not a hit, it isn't doing too bad). But that in my opinion is irrelevant to the success in the theme parks. They are kid friendly, funny, and accessible to even those who know little about it them. They are kind of universal (sorry about the un-intended pun). Find me someone... anyone in the developed world, who doesn't know about Kermit the frog. Not every attraction and every property has to be an E-ticket. Parks need solid, well known, filler, and the muppets are perfect for that. No one walks out of that attraction and hates it. The vast majority of guests enjoy a little Muppets. Would I build 14 acres to them... heck no. But a small corner, themed to the muppets, nothing wrong with that. (A QS restaurant, gift shop, attraction and a color scheme all working together... why are we complaining)

I would say that the muppets is a better attraction than Tower of Terror..... I like both, but the park needs both. Twilight Zone... to anyone under 30 Twilight is a whole different thing. Also, not everyone can or wants to do Tower of Terror.

 

[Goofyernmost]

And there is the issue.... Not sure if the tomorrowland movie has anything to do with the success of the magic kingdom. How about the haunted mansion movie....oh, or there is always the huge hit with the 18-49 demo... Splash mountain/song of the south. Maybe the Muppets are not translating well to TV in this modern era. (while not a hit, it isn't doing too bad). But that in my opinion is irrelevant to the success in the theme parks. They are kid friendly, funny, and accessible to even those who know little about it them. They are kind of universal (sorry about the un-intended pun). Find me someone... anyone in the developed world, who doesn't know about Kermit the frog. Not every attraction and every property has to be an E-ticket. Parks need solid, well known, filler, and the muppets are perfect for that. No one walks out of that attraction and hates it. The vast majority of guests enjoy a little Muppets. Would I build 14 acres to them... heck no. But a small corner, themed to the muppets, nothing wrong with that. (A QS restaurant, gift shop, attraction and a color scheme all working together... why are we complaining)

I would say that the muppets is a better attraction than Tower of Terror..... I like both, but the park needs both. Twilight Zone... to anyone under 30 Twilight is a whole different thing. Also, not everyone can or wants to do Tower of Terror.

At 68 years old... I still do and enjoy both of them. Some folks just feel that if they don't like something nobody should.

 

[Matt_Black]

It's not about how well it's doing. 2011's Winnie the Pooh didn't set the box office on fire, and Magenta Panther isn't calling for that to be removed. It's not about some sort of purity for original or Disney Classic IPs, either- he once referred to Tower of Terror as a "crown jewel", and that most certainly is NOT a Disney IP.

No, MP just hates the Muppets and will look for any flimsy excuse he can to try and make a case.

 

[G00fyDad]

IMO, this is the funniest character on the show.
Uncle Deadly

 

[FullSailDan]

Maybe the Muppets are not translating well to TV in this modern era. (while not a hit, it isn't doing too bad). But that in my opinion is irrelevant to the success in the theme parks. No one walks out of that attraction and hates it. The vast majority of guests enjoy a little Muppets. Would I build 14 acres to them... heck no. But a small corner, themed to the muppets, nothing wrong with that. (A QS restaurant, gift shop, attraction and a color scheme all working together... why are we complaining)

I would say that the muppets is a better attraction than Tower of Terror..... I like both, but the park needs both. Twilight Zone... to anyone under 30 Twilight is a whole different thing. Also, not everyone can or wants to do Tower of Terror.

I'll agree on a few points, parks need low thrill people eaters, media release success doesn't equate theme park success, and a small corner may be OK. In terms of the vast majority of guests enjoying it, well that is very debatable. Generally I don't hear a lot of praise for the attraction from the crowds exiting it. It's dated, and not exciting enough. The 3d is no longer interesting when its being done better at Star Tours and the normal movie theater. It may not be as reviled as Stitch, but its likability rating is pretty close.

The younger generation really are not familiar with the IP at all. They have seen Kermit on the Macy's parade and the occasional tv special. After the acquisition of the characters in 2004 Disney spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to recoup the costs. Unfortunately, the appetite for Muppets hasn't materialized. The films, while considered a "success", didn't continue to gather steam. The first was fresh and had nostalgia to help it, the second one struggled to make 80mil. Less than half of the first and only 30million over what it cost to make. The TV show was marketed to adults because after consistent testing of how to revitalize the IP, they were the only ones who responded.

In consideration that you have limited space in a theme park and you need to maximize the opportunities for people to be absorbed in a large space on a frequent interval, Muppets 3D isn't cutting it. Crowds aren't excited by it, but it is getting attention right now because of the lack of other attractions. Which is why I advocate for it to stay, for now. In the end, it wouldn't make sense to dedicate a restaurant, attraction, and store to it. Maybe the restaurant, a meet and greet, and a small store would suffice. The attraction itself could easily be updated with a better show, but since the IP doesn't really excite people, they will probably look to switch it to something else, or use the space differently eventually.

 

[CentralFloridaRocks831]

do you think Indiana Jones is more likely to be in Phase 3 or Phase 4 in terms of what it's future is going to be. I have seen the DHS permits on screamscape and it has the show and muppetvision 3D safe. view the map yourself on screamscape. All the areas highlighted in blue are goners including LMA-closing on April 2nd. Ask me this...can a show still close if it has high attendance numbers? Are you sure the show is booked for events until 2018?

 

[Andrew C]

I don't understand this argument? All indications are that the Muppets attraction at DHS is going to stay, and also there is a chance that Pizza Planet is going to be rethemed to Muppets. If the second point actually occurs, this is a pretty good indication that Disney thinks keeping the Muppets at the park is a good idea. Where does the TV show come into play here?

 

[Magenta Panther]

any new clues or guesses to the new name? Also, I would think the icon wouldn't be announced or shown until we know what phase 3 will be, as it may be included (ala dragon at AK)

That dragon ticks me off every time I see it. It makes me think of Beastly Kingdomme and stupid Eisner for cutting it.