• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

DCL makes bid for second private destination

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
Pure speculation here but anyway.

I have some (very little actually) knowledge of environment impacts, sewage treatment, water treatment, septic fields, etc. - It's been over 25 years since I did any work of that sort and the state of the art has changed, however I do sort of keep up a bit.

1. DCL and Castaway Cay are monitored by a variety of watchdog agencies. If Disney was pumping raw sewage into low areas on Cataway Cay, there would be plenty of people who noticed, and plenty of fines and bad PR.

2_ Disney has a desalinization and sewage treatment plant on the island. You can google that and read about it all over the internet from various sources.

3. There are treatment methods where effluent is pumped to open holding tanks where solids are left to settle. There are also aerobic methods where oxygen is bubbled up through open tanks where wast water is held before moving on to subsequent additional treatment.

4. You can also separate grey water (from laundry, or the kitchen) from black water (human waste) and treat them separately. Grey water impoundment is an option. Greywater can also be used for irrigation.

So it is very possible that this person who worked at Castaway Cay did see waste water being held, or pumped to open areas. It is also very possible that this was still an environmental sound method that he witnessed.
 

Maeryk

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
Pure speculation here but anyway.

I have some (very little actually) knowledge of environment impacts, sewage treatment, water treatment, septic fields, etc. - It's been over 25 years since I did any work of that sort and the state of the art has changed, however I do sort of keep up a bit.

1. DCL and Castaway Cay are monitored by a variety of watchdog agencies. If Disney was pumping raw sewage into low areas on Cataway Cay, there would be plenty of people who noticed, and plenty of fines and bad PR.

2_ Disney has a desalinization and sewage treatment plant on the island. You can google that and read about it all over the internet from various sources.

3. There are treatment methods where effluent is pumped to open holding tanks where solids are left to settle. There are also aerobic methods where oxygen is bubbled up through open tanks where wast water is held before moving on to subsequent additional treatment.

4. You can also separate grey water (from laundry, or the kitchen) from black water (human waste) and treat them separately. Grey water impoundment is an option. Greywater can also be used for irrigation.

So it is very possible that this person who worked at Castaway Cay did see waste water being held, or pumped to open areas. It is also very possible that this was still an environmental sound method that he witnessed.
Everyone who has lived near a #%(* plant knows about those settlement tanks. (or even near certain farming operations.. I'd take a human sewage plant over a pig sewage settlement pond.. hands down, any day of the week).
 

Philabreaker18

New Member
I am fortunate enough to have been to Lighthouse Point, it will be sad to share it with a thousand cruise passengers. All for Disney Cruises, but don't agree that they need to take over pristine, unique locations to make them their "private islands". Lighthouse Point will pretty much be ruined after Disney takes it over. If you are lucky enough to have been there, you would get it.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
Everyone who has lived near a #%(* plant knows about those settlement tanks. (or even near certain farming operations.. I'd take a human sewage plant over a pig sewage settlement pond.. hands down, any day of the week).
I have been to ones that are entirely contained. The tanks are underground, and they bubble oxygen through them. I was in one where they used sludge pumps to remove the solids, then dry them and ship them by rail to Texas where they are spread over pasture land as fertilizer. The effluent is treated, and then pumped into the bay at an outfall located near the Statue of Liberty. They even made their own liquid oxygen there. Sometimes you don't want to know how the sausage is made.
 

ChuckElias

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Lighthouse Point will pretty much be ruined after Disney takes it over. If you are lucky enough to have been there, you would get it.
Development always brings change, and I totally understand that not all of it is welcomed. I'm going to reserve judgment and hope that Disney's environmental principles keep it from being ruined. I don't think Castaway Cay has been ruined, so I think there's hope.
 

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
Pure speculation here but anyway.

I have some (very little actually) knowledge of environment impacts, sewage treatment, water treatment, septic fields, etc. - It's been over 25 years since I did any work of that sort and the state of the art has changed, however I do sort of keep up a bit.

1. DCL and Castaway Cay are monitored by a variety of watchdog agencies. If Disney was pumping raw sewage into low areas on Cataway Cay, there would be plenty of people who noticed, and plenty of fines and bad PR.
What watchdog agencies do you speak of? Is this a voluntary participation on Disney’s part? I’m aware of no such agency other than the Bahamian health authority. The reason I ask and say this is that the same employee of Disney said he witnessed an inspection of the tanks by a health inspector. She was a Bahamian, came from Nassau, walked around the tanks twice and went to the restaurant for lunch and drinks. Sat at the table with Gunther, the manager. This was at a time after the pipes were installed that ran over to the other side of the island. Not blaming Disney or DCL on this, that’s just the nature of the beast when it comes to governance. So if you have names of agencies with rules that Disney is subject to, I’m all ears. Not those “ears”. Thems too big for my head.😁
 
Last edited:

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
Development always brings change, and I totally understand that not all of it is welcomed. I'm going to reserve judgment and hope that Disney's environmental principles keep it from being ruined. I don't think Castaway Cay has been ruined, so I think there's hope.
Yes, change is hard, particularly for a little island with a lot of quiet beauty and restorative natural environment. I too have stood on that point, and I hope you can understand my concern when I think of a boat load of people trooping around there and running the risk of damaging something that is just so pristine.
I do think that cruise passengers are blessed with some of the largest doses of intestinal fortitude on this earth. When I think of cruising along and getting off on stops, no matter how beautiful with 4000 people it makes me itchy, lol. I picture this from Castaway Cay:75467A9A-8D33-463C-BBE0-75D5E3554289.jpeg
 
Last edited:

MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
Since some of us seem to be unfamiliar with the possible new destination, how many people currently visit it? How do they get there? How is their waste treated?
 

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
Since some of us seem to be unfamiliar with the possible new destination, how many people currently visit it? How do they get there? How is their waste treated?
The destination is quite remote, accessible by a road that is unmaintained. Rough and rugged, you need patience, a four wheel drive vehicle or at least one that has good clearance and a cooler bag that can supply you with some food and water or adult beverage. Yet TripAdvisor show it as the #2 thing to do on the entire island. This includes all man made attractions and activities. Such is the natural beauty of the area and therefore the heated debate in the Bahamas over allowing such a large development plan to proceed. Speaking of TripAdvisor, it should be noted that the top 6 or 7 attractions are completely natural, if I remember correctly. This is the attraction of many of the tourists that visit each year. As for human waste, there are portable toilets in the area that are removed and emptied off site. Undoubtedly there is the occasional foray into the bush to relieve oneself, but at the rate of visits, these sort of occurrences do not participate in any appreciable accumulation of waste that cannot be handled by the very thin soil over calcium carbonate rock base. I estimate that there would probably be 20 people per day that visit, based on my own experience. That sort of scale of tourism and human waste is very manageable even without any supervision or rules. The evidence is in how pristine it appears yet today. The concern for many on island and to a certain extent many in the Bahamas is the concentration of tourism and the effects of that concentration that cruise ships provide. As I’ve said before, no matter how well designed or policed, there cannot help but be a great toll on the natural habitat.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
What watchdog agencies do you speak of? Is this a voluntary participation on Disney’s part? I’m aware of no such agency other than the Bahamian health authority. The reason I ask and say this is that the same employee of Disney said he witnessed an inspection of the tanks by a health inspector. She was a Bahamian, came from Nassau, walked around the tanks twice and went to the restaurant for lunch and drinks. Sat at the table with Gunther, the manager. This was at a time after the pipes were installed that ran over to the other side of the island. Not blaming Disney or DCL on this, that’s just the nature of the beast when it comes to governance. So if you have names of agencies with rules that Disney is subject to, I’m all ears. Not those “ears”. Thems too big for my head.😁
I'm not sure if cruise line organizations extend to the private islands, but cruise operations themselves are heavily regulated. The International Maritime Organization and the Cruise Lines International Association both have policies that are in excess of national law.

The Bahamas Maritime Authority has sections of their code that pertain to sewage as well, https://www.bahamasmaritime.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Bahamas-National-Requirements-Rev9.pdf

Again, that may or may not pertain to Castaway Cay. If it does not pertain, then I would assume that the island falls under the auspices of the Ministry of Public Works. http://www.bahamas.gov.bs/publicworks

Now if the regulators for that agency are in the pocket of DCL, then that is a shame. However, I have been a State Government Utility regulator (a long time ago). Maybe the inspector was out there to inspect the impoundment plan for the tanks, and nothing more. I myself ate lunch with many utility officials whom I regulated. I never let them pay, and I never drank alcohol on government time, but then New York policy may be different than Bahamanian policy.
 

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
From what I here of the eyewitness accounts, there are a lot of rules that “don’t pertain “ one way or another. There is a reason Disney’s and other cruise lines ships are registered in the Bahamas. Less stringent regulations AND far fewer resources at policing those rules. Bottom line in my opinion is just because Disney can, doesn’t mean they should. E4B8A20B-D6A5-47DA-8C52-9C0E88BF272C.jpeg
 

ChuckElias

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Here's an honest question. Why is this campaign directed at Disney? If people are so concerned with not developing this piece of land, why aren't people pressuring the seller NOT to sell the land? Why not just go to the current owner and pressure him/her to donate the entire property to be turned into a national park? Or maybe that is happening and we're just not reading about it?

I understand your concern, I really think I do. But it's going to go somewhere, and this seems to benefit both DCL and the Bahamian government. And the locals, if the article is correct about giving them access to the property. As I said earlier, I will hope that Disney's environmental commitment prevents them from "ruining" the setting.
 

EOD K9

Well-Known Member
The only people who should have tourist access are the people on the cruise. It is like booking at Great Wolf Lodge and having random people using the facilities.
 

ScoutN

OV 104
Premium Member
The only people who should have tourist access are the people on the cruise. It is like booking at Great Wolf Lodge and having random people using the facilities.
I agree. Personally, I cannot wait to pull up to the pier and get ready to get off. The beaches there and a drink in my hand will absolutely amazing. We have agreed to book the inaugural for one of the three new ships and will probably book the first cruise to the new island.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
From what I here of the eyewitness accounts, there are a lot of rules that “don’t pertain “ one way or another. There is a reason Disney’s and other cruise lines ships are registered in the Bahamas. Less stringent regulations AND far fewer resources at policing those rules. Bottom line in my opinion is just because Disney can, doesn’t mean they should.
While a flag of convenience is used at times to circumvent environmental regulations, it usually has to do with fishing regulations.

Most of the time it is just for monetary reasons - cheaper registration fees, less taxes, lower wages for the workers, and sometimes lower tonnage calculations resulting in lower port fees. It's not right, but a flag of convenience does not impact Castaway Cay or this new island.
 

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
Seems there's an agreement reached:
Curious that they announced the agreement (called a HOA - heads of agreement) and announced the completion of the purchase of the land before the environmental impact assessment was completed. Even more curious that the HOA was announced the same day (according to a dcl blog) that Bob Iger mentions the second private cruise port at a shareholder conference call. Curiouser and curiouser.
 

MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
We have seen many property purchase agreements that include contingencies for things such as zoning changes, inspections, and the ability to get financing, among others. Is it possible that the HOA has contingencies?
 

Bahamaman Dan

New Member
Yes HOA most certainly do have contingencies, and is a quite normal part of the m.o. However, when they say they have completed the conveyance of the property, makes it sound like iris already owned by Disney. Property doesn’t get conveyed unless all contingencies are removed.
 
Top Bottom