DCL Buys Unfinished Mega Cruise Ship - Genting Golden Dream ???

[Disone]

Norwegian and Royal both made ships for the China market in the late 2010s and neither is sailing in China. Norwegian spent $50M Americanizing the Joy 18 months after it launched, while Royal is just using the Quantum of the Seas up and down the West Coast of the US while pretending it’s not weird that there’s Chinese names above all the restaurants and shops.

So I’m not banking on Disney’s success in that market. I think the US will have a nice big new Disney cruise ship by 2027.

Agree.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Just do a copy/paste job of the existing fleet with some things for the Asian cruise market and it’s good.

Did you really think they’d come up with an original concept?

This is going to be mass market cruising built on the cheap and quick.

Of course assuming China will be even a viable market in the next 2 years…

I don’t think this is a bad move at all. Incredibly shrewd - in fact.

But there are very common contradictions/misconceptions about Disney ships.
1. Disney ships are underequipped. They always have been. I have seen ZERO praise of the “triton class”. None.
2. They provide a good experience…but they are egregiously overpriced (a company hallmark). You’re paying for the “D” and having goofy hanging off the back.
No ardent DCL defenders have ever been remotely convincing in explaining this away with substance

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Norwegian and Royal both made ships for the China market in the late 2010s and neither is sailing in China. Norwegian spent $50M Americanizing the Joy 18 months after it launched, while Royal is just using the Quantum of the Seas up and down the West Coast of the US while pretending it’s not weird that there’s Chinese names above all the restaurants and shops.

So I’m not banking on Disney’s success in that market. I think the US will have a nice big new Disney cruise ship by 2027.

RCCL’s “Asia strategy” is wrong. It was foolhardy.

The good news is I love the Quantum class ships. They are fantastic. So having them off the US or in Europe - I have one in 2024 - is such a good move.

You know who else has a bad China strategy that everyone believed was a “no brainer”??

 

[monothingie]

RCCL’s “Asia strategy” is wrong. It was foolhardy.

The good news is I love the Quantum class ships. They are fantastic. So having them off the US or in Europe - I have one in 2024 - is such a good move.

You know else has a bad China strategy that everyone believed was a “no brainer”??

 

[peter11435]

I have seen ZERO praise of the “triton class”.

You clearly haven’t been looking very hard

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You clearly haven’t been looking very hard

You have to “wash” it through the dust translator.
If you exhale, it’s mostly described as “nice…but not much different”

That means the gap on ship amenity hasn’t been addressed much.

I get it…Fla/Orlando res with someone working in the compound. I got it…i don’t mind contradiction at all. But flesh it out…not the “I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you” routine quips, Maverick

 

[Disone]

You have to “wash” it through the dust translator.
If you exhale, it’s mostly described as “nice…but not much different”

That means the gap on ship amenity hasn’t been addressed much.

I get it…Fla/Orlando res with someone working in the compound. I got it…i don’t mind contradiction at all. But flesh it out…not the “I could tell you, but then I’d have to kill you” routine quips, Maverick

Disagree on " nice but not different enough" is not the issues with the Wish. It is very different from the first four and struggling with DCL's repeat cruisers for this very reason.

 

[BrianLo]

Norwegian and Royal both made ships for the China market in the late 2010s and neither is sailing in China. Norwegian spent $50M Americanizing the Joy 18 months after it launched, while Royal is just using the Quantum of the Seas up and down the West Coast of the US while pretending it’s not weird that there’s Chinese names above all the restaurants and shops.

So I’m not banking on Disney’s success in that market. I think the US will have a nice big new Disney cruise ship by 2027.

Did they pull quantum and ovation pre-pandemic though? Legitimate question, i thought it was just a pandemic thing, but at the same time there seems no desire to move it back with the Alaska and Australian seasons continuing through 2024 for both.

The quantum is surprisingly not really that notably ‘Chinese’. I say this posting from the ships Wi-Fi as we speak. I might find that sort of thing less notable than an American though. Though yes, there is dual signage remnants.

I think the greater point you have though is these ships are generally built portably, it’s silly to design it to sail literally one destination unless that’s outfitting ships for something like cold vs warm climates

 

[BrianLo]

RCCL’s “Asia strategy” is wrong. It was foolhardy.

The good news is I love the Quantum class ships. They are fantastic. So having them off the US or in Europe - I have one in 2024 - is such a good move.

You know who else has a bad China strategy that everyone believed was a “no brainer”??

Your points are cut throat, but I agree. Self admitted never been on a DCL vessel so maybe I just blatantly don’t understand what I’m missing, but they have never been the leader in this market segment. Far from it.

This ship was an excellent move though and I’m really curious to see what becomes of such a large canvas. The only company I think could have found a place for it was NCL, but they have no money.

 

[CastAStone]

I

Did they pull quantum and ovation pre-pandemic though? Legitimate question, i thought it was just a pandemic thing, but at the same time there seems no desire to move it back with the Alaska and Australian seasons continuing through 2024 for both.

The quantum is surprisingly not really that notably ‘Chinese’. I say this posting from the ships Wi-Fi as we speak. I might find that sort of thing less notable than an American though. Though yes, there is dual signage remnants.

I think the greater point you have though is these ships are generally built portably, it’s silly to design it to sail literally one destination unless that’s outfitting ships for something like cold vs warm climates

IIRC the plan was for the Ovation to be replaced by the Wonder of the Seas in Asia. Of course the Wonder (due to Covid) wound up sailing out of Florida, but it sure seems like the final finishing touches were done for the US.

 

[CastAStone]

Your points are cut throat, but I agree. Self admitted never been on a DCL vessel so maybe I just blatantly don’t understand what I’m missing, but they have never been the leader in this market segment. Far from it.

This ship was an excellent move though and I’m really curious to see what becomes of such a large canvas. The only company I think could have found a place for it was NCL, but they have no money.

Norwegian’s biggest ship is relatively small, roughly the size of Royal’s old Freedom class ships. And the new Prima class is smaller than the Breakaway class was. They seem to be avoiding big.

Of course you could have said the same thing about Disney until last month…

 

[BrianLo]

Norwegian’s biggest ship is relatively small, roughly the size of Royal’s old Freedom class ships. And the new Prima class is smaller than the Breakaway class was. They seem to be avoiding big.

Of course you could have said the same thing about Disney until last month…

That’s what I meant, they were in a similar situation as Disney, not having really an equivalent product but still being mass market. They may have been interested if the company had a different balance sheet. Though I think NCL and RCCL (who actually build these types of vessels) are drifting apart from other another. NCL is leaning more upscale, almost towards Celebrity.

Versus RCCL owning and building this size already may have been the least interested. They really could not market this thing against oasis and icon class releases more or less bookending the built time. It’s going to be more of an enigma for DCL cruises for sure.

 

[Haymarket]

The new ship, to be based outside the United States, will feature innovative Disney experiences along with the dazzling entertainment, world-class dining and legendary guest service that set Disney Cruise Line apart.

The exterior will be adorned in the iconic, Mickey Mouse-inspired colors of the fleet, complete with signature red funnels.

The 208,000-gross-ton cruise ship is expected to be among the first in the cruise industry to be fueled by green methanol, one of the lowest emission fuels available. Disney Cruise Line expects the passenger capacity to be approximately 6,000 with around 2,300 crew members.

It looks pretty amazing. I just hope they really do all they can so its exterior matches the others. Not just in terms of the colors, but also the overall look.

Are they going to need to buy/lease and "Imagineer" another terminal and private island? Perhaps they'll need Joe Rohde's services again.

Does anyone know which countries in Southeast Asia have private islands currently used by cruise lines?

[Looks like the Shanghai - Sanya (Hainan) - Vietnam - Singapore route is pretty typical., sometimes with stops in Thailand. Maybe there's an island in Vietnam they can lease/buy. I initially though it'd be the Philippines but Vietnam seems the overwhelmingly more popular destination.]

Wusongkou International Cruise Port looks like the main terminal in Shanghai for large cruise ships. It's a huge complex:

These are the newest terminal buildings. I could see Disney leasing one/part of one and doing its magic to it:

It's 45 km/28 miles from Shanghai Disneyland Resort. Looks like a good match.

 

[SplashJacket]

It looks pretty amazing. I just hope they really do all they can so its exterior matches the others. Not just in terms of the colors, but also the overall look.

Are they going to need to buy/lease and "Imagineer" another terminal and private island? Perhaps they'll need Joe Rohde's services again.

Does anyone know which countries in Southeast Asia have private islands currently used by cruise lines?

[Looks like the Shanghai - Sanya (Hainan) - Vietnam - Singapore route is pretty typical., sometimes with stops in Thailand. Maybe there's an island in Vietnam they can lease/buy. I initially though it'd be the Philippines but Vietnam seems the overwhelmingly more popular destination.]

Wusongkou International Cruise Port looks like the main terminal in Shanghai for large cruise ships. It's a huge complex:

View attachment 683891View attachment 683888
View attachment 683892

These are the newest terminal buildings. I could see Disney leasing one/part of one and doing its magic to it:

View attachment 683893

It's 45 km/28 miles from Shanghai Disneyland Resort. Looks like a good match.

View attachment 683895

For one massive ship, it’s very unlikely to see a dedicated cruise port, they will likely just lease ports like they do in Europe, Alaska, and the west coast.

Building or buying a specific port locks them into a particular region, which is not ideal.

And I don’t see an Asian castaway equivalent coming to fruition.

If any land-based infrastructure comes of this, I’d suspect it happens at Hong Kong Disneyland, which was originally intended to have a cruise port.

If they do a 4-day, 3-day format, they could easily do a port dock in Hong Kong Disneyland on Mondays and Thursdays, with a 4-day cruise starting on Saturday and three day cruises on Wednesday. This would inject nearly 10,000 people on slow days at Hong Kong Disneyland from an outside audience. I’m not sure where these itineraries would run from, but regardless, it would be possible to run cruises from Hanoi, Vietnam; Manila, Philippines; Taipei, Taiwan (I have no idea the reality of a Taiwan-China cruise, but it would allow the Taiwan populace a very decreased barrier of entry for visiting HKDL); and Shanghai, China.

Instead of doing 3-day and 4-day cruises, and instead, you do 7-day itineraries, you have a much wider opportunity to get people to Hong Kong. Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, Japan, and Korea are all within 7-day itinerary reach from HKDL.

An itinerary from Singapore could stop at the Riau Islands, then Ho Chi Minh city, then have a sea day on day 4, be at Hong Kong Disneyland, then stop early at the Paracel islands with an early departure followed by a sea day and then make it back on the morning of day 8.

Korea and Japan are similar stories, but you could stop also stop in Shanghai as well on a 7-day itinerary (strategically planned so both visits land on low-crowd week days).

Japan has a lot of die-hard Disney fans, that I assume would be very willing to visit Shanghai and Hong Kong Disneyland, but don’t want to go to China. But a ship like this lowers the barriers of entry.

There’s also a lot of itineraries you could do outside of HKDL, so if they do HKDL cruises for a bit of the year, then do a repositioning cruise to Australia, you could easily do a repositioning cruise later on in the year back from Australia to HKDL. I assume the ship will occasionally venture to the northern Indian Ocean, especially on the east side of India.

 

[Andrew C]

For one massive ship, it’s very unlikely to see a dedicated cruise port, they will likely just lease ports like they do in Europe, Alaska, and the west coast.

Building or buying a specific port locks them into a particular region, which is not ideal.

And I don’t see an Asian castaway equivalent coming to fruition.

If any land-based infrastructure comes of this, I’d suspect it happens at Hong Kong Disneyland, which was originally intended to have a cruise port.

If they do a 4-day, 3-day format, they could easily do a port dock in Hong Kong Disneyland on Mondays and Thursdays, with a 4-day cruise starting on Saturday and three day cruises on Wednesday. This would inject nearly 10,000 people on slow days at Hong Kong Disneyland from an outside audience. I’m not sure where these itineraries would run from, but regardless, it would be possible to run cruises from Hanoi, Vietnam; Manila, Philippines; Taipei, Taiwan (I have no idea the reality of a Taiwan-China cruise, but it would allow the Taiwan populace a very decreased barrier of entry for visiting HKDL); and Shanghai, China.

Instead of doing 3-day and 4-day cruises, and instead, you do 7-day itineraries, you have a much wider opportunity to get people to Hong Kong. Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, Japan, and Korea are all within 7-day itinerary reach from HKDL.

An itinerary from Singapore could stop at the Riau Islands, then Ho Chi Minh city, then have a sea day on day 4, be at Hong Kong Disneyland, then stop early at the Paracel islands with an early departure followed by a sea day and then make it back on the morning of day 8.

Korea and Japan are similar stories, but you could stop also stop in Shanghai as well on a 7-day itinerary (strategically planned so both visits land on low-crowd week days).

Japan has a lot of die-hard Disney fans, that I assume would be very willing to visit Shanghai and Hong Kong Disneyland, but don’t want to go to China. But a ship like this lowers the barriers of entry.

There’s also a lot of itineraries you could do outside of HKDL, so if they do HKDL cruises for a bit of the year, then do a repositioning cruise to Australia, you could easily do a repositioning cruise later on in the year back from Australia to HKDL. I assume the ship will occasionally venture to the northern Indian Ocean, especially on the east side of India.

 

[Haymarket]

For one massive ship, it’s very unlikely to see a dedicated cruise port, they will likely just lease ports like they do in Europe, Alaska, and the west coast.

Building or buying a specific port locks them into a particular region, which is not ideal.

And I don’t see an Asian castaway equivalent coming to fruition.

If any land-based infrastructure comes of this, I’d suspect it happens at Hong Kong Disneyland, which was originally intended to have a cruise port.

If they do a 4-day, 3-day format, they could easily do a port dock in Hong Kong Disneyland on Mondays and Thursdays, with a 4-day cruise starting on Saturday and three day cruises on Wednesday. This would inject nearly 10,000 people on slow days at Hong Kong Disneyland from an outside audience. I’m not sure where these itineraries would run from, but regardless, it would be possible to run cruises from Hanoi, Vietnam; Manila, Philippines; Taipei, Taiwan (I have no idea the reality of a Taiwan-China cruise, but it would allow the Taiwan populace a very decreased barrier of entry for visiting HKDL); and Shanghai, China.

Instead of doing 3-day and 4-day cruises, and instead, you do 7-day itineraries, you have a much wider opportunity to get people to Hong Kong. Singapore, Korea, Malaysia, Japan, and Korea are all within 7-day itinerary reach from HKDL.

An itinerary from Singapore could stop at the Riau Islands, then Ho Chi Minh city, then have a sea day on day 4, be at Hong Kong Disneyland, then stop early at the Paracel islands with an early departure followed by a sea day and then make it back on the morning of day 8.

Korea and Japan are similar stories, but you could stop also stop in Shanghai as well on a 7-day itinerary (strategically planned so both visits land on low-crowd week days).

Japan has a lot of die-hard Disney fans, that I assume would be very willing to visit Shanghai and Hong Kong Disneyland, but don’t want to go to China. But a ship like this lowers the barriers of entry.

There’s also a lot of itineraries you could do outside of HKDL, so if they do HKDL cruises for a bit of the year, then do a repositioning cruise to Australia, you could easily do a repositioning cruise later on in the year back from Australia to HKDL. I assume the ship will occasionally venture to the northern Indian Ocean, especially on the east side of India.

Wow this is great stuff. Thanks so much!

 

[Obobru]

I wonder if Iger will scrap this ship as apparently no work is happening at the moment on it and Disney are in the process of redesigning it. The amount lost will be minimal for Disney is they send it for scrap they will recover most of the purchase cost and the losses will be on the storage since they bought it and the designers who are working on the plans.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I wonder if Iger will scrap this ship as apparently no work is happening at the moment on it and Disney are in the process of redesigning it. The amount lost will be minimal for Disney is they send it for scrap they will recover most of the purchase cost and the losses will be on the storage since they bought it and the designers who are working on the plans.

But, why? It was a really smart business decision. If anything, delay Triton #3.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But, why? It was a really smart business decision. If anything, delay Triton #3.

They got it cheap…but remember that Disney is very “deliberate” with their designs

It’s possible that a redesign/retrofit may open up a can of worms they want no part of?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

They got it cheap…but remember that Disney is very “deliberate” with their designs

It’s possible that a redesign/retrofit may open up a can of worms they want no last of?

If they're sending the thing to Asia anyways, there's going to be very little overlap between passengers on this thing and passengers on their other ships, so maybe they're okay with those incongruities?