-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
DCA Turns 20
- Thread starter the.dreamfinder
- Start date
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
I remember visiting the summer of opening year with my family. We were gone before 2pm as we had experienced everything.
We actually didn't go on Limo or knew it existed. That's how bad that ride's placement is. Otherwise I know we would've went to it.
Disney shouldve kept DCA the same, maybe now their corniness could be viewed as charming. I'd take a cheap early 2000s Disney experience over an expensive IP filled advertisement any day.
We actually didn't go on Limo or knew it existed. That's how bad that ride's placement is. Otherwise I know we would've went to it.
Disney shouldve kept DCA the same, maybe now their corniness could be viewed as charming. I'd take a cheap early 2000s Disney experience over an expensive IP filled advertisement any day.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
A CLASSIC Los Angeles Times archive article from January 14th, 2001, and what it said about DCA
It was titled...
The Most Jam-Packed Theme Park on Earth?
And was sub-titled...
Attracting visitors won't be a problem for Disney's soon-to-open California Adventure. But coping with the expected hordes may be another matter."
The most innovative attraction at Walt Disney Co.'s new California Adventure may be the simulated hang-glider ride over the natural and man-made wonders of the Golden State. Soarin' Over California is estimated to handle 1,250 riders an hour--but on busy days that means as many as half of the park's visitors won't be able to get on.
It's just one example of what is looming as a major issue for the new park: overcrowding.
California Adventure park, set to open Feb. 8, will allow only about 30,000 people within its gates at one time--almost half the number at adjacent Disneyland.
One complication is the popular Fastpass program, which allows patrons to avoid lines at major rides by reserving ride times. The problem, park managers and employees say, is that all those people no longer standing in line for hours make parks seem even more crowded on busy days--a factor that contributed to Disneyland's shutting down its turnstiles at midday several times during the holidays.
Senior Disney officials acknowledge that there will be days when California Adventure will have to turn patrons away, particularly in the first weeks after the park opens, during spring break and again in the summer.
Disney hopes those denied entry will stay at the resort and visit Disneyland and the new Downtown Disney's shops and restaurants. The risks are that people may flee the resort and those who do get inside California Adventure on crowded days will feel cheated out of experiencing a full range of attractions.
When that happens at Disneyland, "complaints go way up at City Hall," said a ride supervisor at the park. "People want their money back. And spending goes down on Main Street at the end of the day because people are walking out unhappy and not buying souvenirs."
Ride capacity is an issue because Disney succeeds so well in packing its parks. Disneyland patrons can experience 12 or 13 attractions on slow weekdays, and even on a day when 50,000 people crowd the park, they can fit in as many as nine rides, a number considered acceptable by park officials.
But California Adventure, part of a $1.4-billion Disney expansion in Anaheim, has 23 attractions, counting minor exhibits such as farming and tortilla-making--just a third as many as Disneyland.
"Come early in the day or come later, after the park clears out again," said George Kalogridis, senior vice president of Disney operations in Anaheim. "Hopefully, with Disneyland right across the esplanade and Downtown Disney right there, we won't have to turn people away from the resort."
Indeed, elaborate stage shows, "edgy" street entertainment, fancy dining and wine bars are designed to take up the slack while Disney positions the new park as an alternative to the Magic Kingdom in hopes of extending visitor stays beyond one day.
Company projections show Magic Kingdom attendance falling by 500,000 per year, to about 13.3 million, and California Adventure visits rising to 7 million. Thousands more visitors each week are expected to stop by Downtown Disney, which has no admission fee. Separate admission is needed for Disneyland and California Adventure; each one charges $43 for general admission and $33 for children 3 to 9.
Although Disney prides itself on anticipating and satisfying customers' wishes, executives acknowledge that no one will really know how many people the new park can handle until operations begin.
Some insiders worry the company may have overestimated the capacity of the new park's rides. Certainly, no California Adventure attraction can handle as many visitors as Disneyland favorite Pirates of the Caribbean, a workhorse that on smooth-running days can handle nearly 2,800 riders an hour--more than 40,000 a day.
In designing California Adventure, Disney Imagineers worked backward from the projected attendance level of 7 million a year, said Barry Braverman, Disney's chief creative supervisor on the project.
Disney designers used industrial engineering models to determine how many rides, shows, restaurants, parades and restrooms would be needed to accommodate the expected crowds. But because the park has fewer attractions than Disneyland, there's a smaller margin of error. If a couple of major rides malfunction on a busy day, Braverman said, "We'll just have to count on the [live] entertainment being good."
Kalogridis and others who went on Soarin' Over California during staff previews last week said it sometimes took as long as 12 minutes to unload one set of riders and load the next group. The target time is 2 1/2 minutes.
If pessimistic predictions are correct, about 16,000 people a day can experience Soarin' Over California if it operates without a hitch from 8 a.m. to midnight. If the official forecast is correct, it still means just 20,000 maximum.
Kalogridis said the hang-glider ride turned out better than expected. Had Disney realized how popular it could be, it could have increased its capacity, he said. Improvements are being made to software that indicates when seat belts are properly fastened, which should bring Soarin' Over California's loading cycle close to the target 2 1/2 minutes, he said.
Another projection that has raised eyebrows is that the Sun Wheel, a scary Ferris wheel with moving cabins, will accommodate 900 riders an hour. That can be achieved only if every cabin is completely filled with six riders. So workers have been told to aggressively combine parties--a policy that often draws objections from patrons.
"If you're in a party of four, you'll be hearing: 'Party of four, meet your new friends, party of two,' whether you like it or not," an employee predicted.
Executives say the preview days allow them to work out bugs on many attractions, such as a stalled train on the California Screamin' roller coaster last week that forced closure of the high- capacity attraction for the day.
A separate capacity issue has to do with parking. California Adventure and Downtown Disney occupy what once was Disneyland's main parking lot. Even with the addition of a $100-million parking structure that holds more than 10,000 cars--said to be the nation's largest--the net gain in spaces is just 4,500 cars.
Kalogridis said that will be enough to handle the expected new throngs, even if 30,000 more park-goers show up on a busy day. Noting that the departure of an army of construction workers will free up thousands of parking spaces, he said the company believes its original parking projections will prove adequate.
Then there is Fastpass, the system that lets patrons avoid lines by reserving ride times on major attractions. California Adventure, which has six rides with Fastpass, may feel more crowded on busy days because of the system--and some say Disney staff may have to close the gates even before 30,000 people are in the park.
Park employees, who have been given "countdown" watches showing the days to California Adventure's opening, are bracing for big crowds, at least until initial curiosity over California Adventure is satisfied.
"History has taught us that attendance the first year will be heavy," said Kalogridis, a veteran of Walt Disney World in Florida, where Disney has four parks. "Certainly, there will be huge interest in Southern California, where it's been 45 years since a new Disney park opened."
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC)
Too Popular? Disney's California Adventure should bring in the crowds. But that will create a challenge for the new park, because on busy days some attractions won't be able to handle the demand. Estimates of the number of patrons who can be served per hour on some Disneyland and California Adventure rides: Disneyland
Rides______________________ Capacity (riders/hour)
Pirates of the Caribbean____________________ 2,775
Big Thunder Mtn Railroad____________________ 2,250
Haunted Mansion______________________________2,150
Indiana Jones________________________________1,850
California Adventure
Rides______________________Capacity (riders/hour)*
California Screamin'________________________ 2,200
Grizzly River Run____________________________2,100
Soarin' Over California______________________1,250
Sun Wheel______________________________________900
*
* Estimated
Source: Walt Disney Co.
It was titled...
The Most Jam-Packed Theme Park on Earth?
And was sub-titled...
Attracting visitors won't be a problem for Disney's soon-to-open California Adventure. But coping with the expected hordes may be another matter."
The most innovative attraction at Walt Disney Co.'s new California Adventure may be the simulated hang-glider ride over the natural and man-made wonders of the Golden State. Soarin' Over California is estimated to handle 1,250 riders an hour--but on busy days that means as many as half of the park's visitors won't be able to get on.
It's just one example of what is looming as a major issue for the new park: overcrowding.
California Adventure park, set to open Feb. 8, will allow only about 30,000 people within its gates at one time--almost half the number at adjacent Disneyland.
One complication is the popular Fastpass program, which allows patrons to avoid lines at major rides by reserving ride times. The problem, park managers and employees say, is that all those people no longer standing in line for hours make parks seem even more crowded on busy days--a factor that contributed to Disneyland's shutting down its turnstiles at midday several times during the holidays.
Senior Disney officials acknowledge that there will be days when California Adventure will have to turn patrons away, particularly in the first weeks after the park opens, during spring break and again in the summer.
Disney hopes those denied entry will stay at the resort and visit Disneyland and the new Downtown Disney's shops and restaurants. The risks are that people may flee the resort and those who do get inside California Adventure on crowded days will feel cheated out of experiencing a full range of attractions.
When that happens at Disneyland, "complaints go way up at City Hall," said a ride supervisor at the park. "People want their money back. And spending goes down on Main Street at the end of the day because people are walking out unhappy and not buying souvenirs."
Ride capacity is an issue because Disney succeeds so well in packing its parks. Disneyland patrons can experience 12 or 13 attractions on slow weekdays, and even on a day when 50,000 people crowd the park, they can fit in as many as nine rides, a number considered acceptable by park officials.
But California Adventure, part of a $1.4-billion Disney expansion in Anaheim, has 23 attractions, counting minor exhibits such as farming and tortilla-making--just a third as many as Disneyland.
"Come early in the day or come later, after the park clears out again," said George Kalogridis, senior vice president of Disney operations in Anaheim. "Hopefully, with Disneyland right across the esplanade and Downtown Disney right there, we won't have to turn people away from the resort."
Indeed, elaborate stage shows, "edgy" street entertainment, fancy dining and wine bars are designed to take up the slack while Disney positions the new park as an alternative to the Magic Kingdom in hopes of extending visitor stays beyond one day.
Company projections show Magic Kingdom attendance falling by 500,000 per year, to about 13.3 million, and California Adventure visits rising to 7 million. Thousands more visitors each week are expected to stop by Downtown Disney, which has no admission fee. Separate admission is needed for Disneyland and California Adventure; each one charges $43 for general admission and $33 for children 3 to 9.
Although Disney prides itself on anticipating and satisfying customers' wishes, executives acknowledge that no one will really know how many people the new park can handle until operations begin.
Some insiders worry the company may have overestimated the capacity of the new park's rides. Certainly, no California Adventure attraction can handle as many visitors as Disneyland favorite Pirates of the Caribbean, a workhorse that on smooth-running days can handle nearly 2,800 riders an hour--more than 40,000 a day.
In designing California Adventure, Disney Imagineers worked backward from the projected attendance level of 7 million a year, said Barry Braverman, Disney's chief creative supervisor on the project.
Disney designers used industrial engineering models to determine how many rides, shows, restaurants, parades and restrooms would be needed to accommodate the expected crowds. But because the park has fewer attractions than Disneyland, there's a smaller margin of error. If a couple of major rides malfunction on a busy day, Braverman said, "We'll just have to count on the [live] entertainment being good."
Kalogridis and others who went on Soarin' Over California during staff previews last week said it sometimes took as long as 12 minutes to unload one set of riders and load the next group. The target time is 2 1/2 minutes.
If pessimistic predictions are correct, about 16,000 people a day can experience Soarin' Over California if it operates without a hitch from 8 a.m. to midnight. If the official forecast is correct, it still means just 20,000 maximum.
Kalogridis said the hang-glider ride turned out better than expected. Had Disney realized how popular it could be, it could have increased its capacity, he said. Improvements are being made to software that indicates when seat belts are properly fastened, which should bring Soarin' Over California's loading cycle close to the target 2 1/2 minutes, he said.
Another projection that has raised eyebrows is that the Sun Wheel, a scary Ferris wheel with moving cabins, will accommodate 900 riders an hour. That can be achieved only if every cabin is completely filled with six riders. So workers have been told to aggressively combine parties--a policy that often draws objections from patrons.
"If you're in a party of four, you'll be hearing: 'Party of four, meet your new friends, party of two,' whether you like it or not," an employee predicted.
Executives say the preview days allow them to work out bugs on many attractions, such as a stalled train on the California Screamin' roller coaster last week that forced closure of the high- capacity attraction for the day.
A separate capacity issue has to do with parking. California Adventure and Downtown Disney occupy what once was Disneyland's main parking lot. Even with the addition of a $100-million parking structure that holds more than 10,000 cars--said to be the nation's largest--the net gain in spaces is just 4,500 cars.
Kalogridis said that will be enough to handle the expected new throngs, even if 30,000 more park-goers show up on a busy day. Noting that the departure of an army of construction workers will free up thousands of parking spaces, he said the company believes its original parking projections will prove adequate.
Then there is Fastpass, the system that lets patrons avoid lines by reserving ride times on major attractions. California Adventure, which has six rides with Fastpass, may feel more crowded on busy days because of the system--and some say Disney staff may have to close the gates even before 30,000 people are in the park.
Park employees, who have been given "countdown" watches showing the days to California Adventure's opening, are bracing for big crowds, at least until initial curiosity over California Adventure is satisfied.
"History has taught us that attendance the first year will be heavy," said Kalogridis, a veteran of Walt Disney World in Florida, where Disney has four parks. "Certainly, there will be huge interest in Southern California, where it's been 45 years since a new Disney park opened."
(BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX / INFOGRAPHIC)
Too Popular? Disney's California Adventure should bring in the crowds. But that will create a challenge for the new park, because on busy days some attractions won't be able to handle the demand. Estimates of the number of patrons who can be served per hour on some Disneyland and California Adventure rides: Disneyland
Rides______________________ Capacity (riders/hour)
Pirates of the Caribbean____________________ 2,775
Big Thunder Mtn Railroad____________________ 2,250
Haunted Mansion______________________________2,150
Indiana Jones________________________________1,850
California Adventure
Rides______________________Capacity (riders/hour)*
California Screamin'________________________ 2,200
Grizzly River Run____________________________2,100
Soarin' Over California______________________1,250
Sun Wheel______________________________________900
*
* Estimated
Source: Walt Disney Co.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Now, let's look at some news stories that came out in the first year or so...
First, from an Orange County Register article from October, 2002
>>Try to turn California Adventure into something more than an oft-vacant sideshow for Disneyland.....
Look at California Adventure, the signature of Pressler's reign as theme-park king. The ailing park surely suffers from a lack of amusements - an obvious result of its relatively low-budget construction, if you can say that about a $1.4 billion park.
Pressler's bet that a quirky mix of rides, eateries and retailing would make the new park a draw was a flop.
For Disney, California Adventure is not the sole Disney ailment.
Keonig(sic) said Pressler does deserve a good share of the blame for the alleged lack of creative ambition at the Disney theme parks. He said California Adventure, in which Pressler played a central role, suffers from a much deeper problem than temporary economic woes. It's a conceptual problem, he said: The mostly local people who attend Disneyland simply don't want to attend a theme park about California.<<
Next is an article from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
>>Disney's California Adventure park in Anaheim got off to a slow start when its attempt to appeal to adults with gourmet restaurants and nostalgic carnival attractions failed to catch on. The park has been retooling by adding more rides for younger children and returning to more tried and true Disney themes.<<
And from a great Marketwatch.com article (back then it was CBS Marketwatch.com).
>>California Adventure, completed for $1.4 billion in early 2001, never quite caught on, as low attendance has forced Disney to constantly revamp the park. The price tag is considered low for a theme park, since new parks in eastern Asia are costing $4 billion to $5 billion but are financed and designed by other companies that take out licenses with Disney.
California Adventure -- developed solely by Disney -- was seen as being long on retail outlets, such as a Wolfgang Puck restaurant, a sourdough bread bakery, a winery and a series of restaurants and shops made to look like a Hollywood studio. And half the $1.4 billion spent went toward construction of the Grand Californian Hotel.
Conversely, it was considered short on attractions, especially for young children. California Adventure is revamping a sizable portion of the park and putting in a new attraction called A Bug's Land, based on the movie "A Bug's Life." It's due to open early next month.
Al Lutz, a longtime Disney parks observer and creator of the Web site , regularly monitors park activity to gauge attendance and park improvements. He says Disneyland continues to draw the same numbers of crowds it always has, in the 25,000 range, but California Adventure lags at 4,000 on weekdays and 10,000 to 15,000 on weekends.
Lutz said it showed that the decisions made on California Adventure, primarily under Pressler's purview, were not the most sound.
"I think he approached them as retail operations and didn't look at them for what they are," Lutz said. Each theme park needs strong elements of showmanship to interest attendees, he added.<<
And from a September 27th, 2002 article in the Orlando Sentinel...
>>Harriss' tenure at Disneyland has included that attraction's coolly received second theme park, California Adventure. That attraction, which opened last year, has resorted to discounting tickets to attract tourists.<<
First, from an Orange County Register article from October, 2002
>>Try to turn California Adventure into something more than an oft-vacant sideshow for Disneyland.....
Look at California Adventure, the signature of Pressler's reign as theme-park king. The ailing park surely suffers from a lack of amusements - an obvious result of its relatively low-budget construction, if you can say that about a $1.4 billion park.
Pressler's bet that a quirky mix of rides, eateries and retailing would make the new park a draw was a flop.
For Disney, California Adventure is not the sole Disney ailment.
Keonig(sic) said Pressler does deserve a good share of the blame for the alleged lack of creative ambition at the Disney theme parks. He said California Adventure, in which Pressler played a central role, suffers from a much deeper problem than temporary economic woes. It's a conceptual problem, he said: The mostly local people who attend Disneyland simply don't want to attend a theme park about California.<<
Next is an article from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer
>>Disney's California Adventure park in Anaheim got off to a slow start when its attempt to appeal to adults with gourmet restaurants and nostalgic carnival attractions failed to catch on. The park has been retooling by adding more rides for younger children and returning to more tried and true Disney themes.<<
And from a great Marketwatch.com article (back then it was CBS Marketwatch.com).
>>California Adventure, completed for $1.4 billion in early 2001, never quite caught on, as low attendance has forced Disney to constantly revamp the park. The price tag is considered low for a theme park, since new parks in eastern Asia are costing $4 billion to $5 billion but are financed and designed by other companies that take out licenses with Disney.
California Adventure -- developed solely by Disney -- was seen as being long on retail outlets, such as a Wolfgang Puck restaurant, a sourdough bread bakery, a winery and a series of restaurants and shops made to look like a Hollywood studio. And half the $1.4 billion spent went toward construction of the Grand Californian Hotel.
Conversely, it was considered short on attractions, especially for young children. California Adventure is revamping a sizable portion of the park and putting in a new attraction called A Bug's Land, based on the movie "A Bug's Life." It's due to open early next month.
Al Lutz, a longtime Disney parks observer and creator of the Web site , regularly monitors park activity to gauge attendance and park improvements. He says Disneyland continues to draw the same numbers of crowds it always has, in the 25,000 range, but California Adventure lags at 4,000 on weekdays and 10,000 to 15,000 on weekends.
Lutz said it showed that the decisions made on California Adventure, primarily under Pressler's purview, were not the most sound.
"I think he approached them as retail operations and didn't look at them for what they are," Lutz said. Each theme park needs strong elements of showmanship to interest attendees, he added.<<
And from a September 27th, 2002 article in the Orlando Sentinel...
>>Harriss' tenure at Disneyland has included that attraction's coolly received second theme park, California Adventure. That attraction, which opened last year, has resorted to discounting tickets to attract tourists.<<
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
And from a November 2002 Marketwatch.com article (selected paragraphs only)
Walt Disney Co. is betting small insects and a big building will help its troubled California Adventure theme park find a following nearly two years after it opened at a cost of $650 million.
California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion.
To get California Adventure numbers up, Disney will have to acknowledge the theme needs to be reworked. Much of its business is local, and there are few park visitors who want an education on their own state, analysts say.
"In order to turn this around, they have to turn their back on the concept," said Jim Hill, a longtime Disney observer who operates a Web site devoted to company news. He says there are a number of proposals under consideration to add new attractions at the park, all of which will result in the California theme getting shunted aside.
"Everything that's on the table is stuff that's fun to ride. It has nothing to do with the California theme," Hill said.
To be sure, California Adventure has gone through the growing pains associated with many of Disney's parks. But some observers say it's worse this time.
One of them is John Cora, Disney's former vice president in charge of resort development, who was responsible for putting in many of the attractions at the new park. He left the company shortly after it opened in February 2001, and now is a theme park consultant based in Oceanside, Calif. Cora says he had an amicable parting with Disney.
Cora says Disney's highest priority in developing the park was to keep costs down.
"That was the bottom line," he said, adding he differed with management over how much and where to spend money on the park.
California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion.
Cora says that the underlying problem is that to round out the park, California Adventure had to put in an inordinately large number of high-end restaurants, stores, and other retail outlets. Patrons balked at the prospect of spending $45 to get in, and then spend more on goods and food.
That was the influence of former Disney parks chief Paul Pressler coming through, Cora says. Pressler had extensive training in the retail sector and left Disney to become chief executive of Gap Inc. in September.
"Part of the problem is Paul came from retail. He thought retail and still thinks retail," Cora said. "We spent enough money overbuilding retail and food (operations) to add three or four more major attractions to the park."
Some of those facilities are closed or have been replaced. Along with the Soap Opera Bistro and Mondavi winery, Wolfgang Puck operated a restaurant in the heart of the park for a time but eventually left. Disney is operating another restaurant there now.
So we have one of the key players in building DCA saying things like cost was the number one issue, and that they overspent on food and retail (So much so that they could have added three or four more attractions for the same price!!!)
WOW!!!
Walt Disney Co. is betting small insects and a big building will help its troubled California Adventure theme park find a following nearly two years after it opened at a cost of $650 million.
California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion.
To get California Adventure numbers up, Disney will have to acknowledge the theme needs to be reworked. Much of its business is local, and there are few park visitors who want an education on their own state, analysts say.
"In order to turn this around, they have to turn their back on the concept," said Jim Hill, a longtime Disney observer who operates a Web site devoted to company news. He says there are a number of proposals under consideration to add new attractions at the park, all of which will result in the California theme getting shunted aside.
"Everything that's on the table is stuff that's fun to ride. It has nothing to do with the California theme," Hill said.
To be sure, California Adventure has gone through the growing pains associated with many of Disney's parks. But some observers say it's worse this time.
One of them is John Cora, Disney's former vice president in charge of resort development, who was responsible for putting in many of the attractions at the new park. He left the company shortly after it opened in February 2001, and now is a theme park consultant based in Oceanside, Calif. Cora says he had an amicable parting with Disney.
Cora says Disney's highest priority in developing the park was to keep costs down.
"That was the bottom line," he said, adding he differed with management over how much and where to spend money on the park.
California Adventure, the adjacent Grand Californian hotel and the Downtown Disney shopping district cost a total $1.4 billion. The park itself cost an estimated $650 million. By contrast, the new DisneySea park in Tokyo -- paid for by licensees -- went for roughly $3 billion.
Cora says that the underlying problem is that to round out the park, California Adventure had to put in an inordinately large number of high-end restaurants, stores, and other retail outlets. Patrons balked at the prospect of spending $45 to get in, and then spend more on goods and food.
That was the influence of former Disney parks chief Paul Pressler coming through, Cora says. Pressler had extensive training in the retail sector and left Disney to become chief executive of Gap Inc. in September.
"Part of the problem is Paul came from retail. He thought retail and still thinks retail," Cora said. "We spent enough money overbuilding retail and food (operations) to add three or four more major attractions to the park."
Some of those facilities are closed or have been replaced. Along with the Soap Opera Bistro and Mondavi winery, Wolfgang Puck operated a restaurant in the heart of the park for a time but eventually left. Disney is operating another restaurant there now.
So we have one of the key players in building DCA saying things like cost was the number one issue, and that they overspent on food and retail (So much so that they could have added three or four more attractions for the same price!!!)
WOW!!!
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Here is an intereview from Yahoo of Roy Disney in December of 2003
>>CONCERN OVER THEME PARKS
Eisner, he argues, has not invested in theme parks as he should, and the board of directors was ineffective.
"The upkeep down in Disneyland is sickening," he said, adding that the company under Eisner had built "half a park" but charged full-park prices at California Adventure, the theme park opened next to Disneyland in Southern California.<<
You know, it is funny, many of us have made points like..
Disney upkeep is not what it used to be...
DCA was built on the cheap
DCA is a half day park / not enough to do
The pricing structure is wrong, that DCA is not worth the same price as Disneyland.
But many folks said we were wrong, it is nice to see that a member of the immediate Disney family agreeing with those comments....
I also want to point out, Disney has been trying to fix DCA, including the addition of ToT... But ToT is not the CURE for DCA, there is still a lot to do to make it a park that is worth close to the Disneyland price...
Let's look at what Marty Sklar said at the IAPPA in November of 2003, as reported on Jim Hill Media ...
>>EISNER UPDATE: I am just amazed to see how the support for Michael Eisner within the entertainment community has begun to erode. It seems like -- these days -- nobody has a kind word to say about the guy. Take -- for example -- this quote from Harvey Weinstein, the co-chairman of Miramax Pictures. When asked to describe what it's like to work with the Walt Disney Company in general (and Michael Eisner in particular) these days, Harvey had this to say:
"All the great executives have been driven from the company. I think there is no camaraderie anymore, no great esprit de corps that I found earlier. I think there was more risk-taking, a more fun company. I don't know why, and it's sad that it is."
And even formerly loyal lieutenants like Marty Sklar, Vice Chairman and Principal Creative Executive of Walt Disney Imagineering, have begun openly carping about how terrible it is to work at the Walt Disney Company during the waning days of the Michael Eisner era.
Want proof? Take a gander at this Marty quote that an unnamed someone sent from an IAAPA seminar Sklar spoke at last month. When asked about what his thoughts were about Disney's California Adventure. Marty replied:
"I think that you're nuts to build a park next to Disneyland that's half the size and charge the same amount of money."<<
>>CONCERN OVER THEME PARKS
Eisner, he argues, has not invested in theme parks as he should, and the board of directors was ineffective.
"The upkeep down in Disneyland is sickening," he said, adding that the company under Eisner had built "half a park" but charged full-park prices at California Adventure, the theme park opened next to Disneyland in Southern California.<<
You know, it is funny, many of us have made points like..
Disney upkeep is not what it used to be...
DCA was built on the cheap
DCA is a half day park / not enough to do
The pricing structure is wrong, that DCA is not worth the same price as Disneyland.
But many folks said we were wrong, it is nice to see that a member of the immediate Disney family agreeing with those comments....
I also want to point out, Disney has been trying to fix DCA, including the addition of ToT... But ToT is not the CURE for DCA, there is still a lot to do to make it a park that is worth close to the Disneyland price...
Let's look at what Marty Sklar said at the IAPPA in November of 2003, as reported on Jim Hill Media ...
>>EISNER UPDATE: I am just amazed to see how the support for Michael Eisner within the entertainment community has begun to erode. It seems like -- these days -- nobody has a kind word to say about the guy. Take -- for example -- this quote from Harvey Weinstein, the co-chairman of Miramax Pictures. When asked to describe what it's like to work with the Walt Disney Company in general (and Michael Eisner in particular) these days, Harvey had this to say:
"All the great executives have been driven from the company. I think there is no camaraderie anymore, no great esprit de corps that I found earlier. I think there was more risk-taking, a more fun company. I don't know why, and it's sad that it is."
And even formerly loyal lieutenants like Marty Sklar, Vice Chairman and Principal Creative Executive of Walt Disney Imagineering, have begun openly carping about how terrible it is to work at the Walt Disney Company during the waning days of the Michael Eisner era.
Want proof? Take a gander at this Marty quote that an unnamed someone sent from an IAAPA seminar Sklar spoke at last month. When asked about what his thoughts were about Disney's California Adventure. Marty replied:
"I think that you're nuts to build a park next to Disneyland that's half the size and charge the same amount of money."<<
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Next, we have a Motley Fool article from July, 2004...
An interesting opinion piece by Rick Aristotle Munarriz that deals with his 2 week trip out west, in which he visits DL, DCA, Knott's and more. (FYI, he is an investor in both Disney and Cedar Fair)
First, lets see his thoughts on Disneyland...
Disneyland rocked. While Tomorrowland felt hollow without Rocket Rods, Space Mountain, and the submarine voyage, Disney's original theme park was essentially the same vibrant oasis of guests, attractions, and long operating hours that it has always been during the summer.
About right, many people complain about Tomorrowland, and with good reason....
Now, let's see his thoughts on DCA...
Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure.
A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park.
The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year.
Yes, attendance is bouncing back at the park after horrifically sandbagged levels, but rather than wonder whether the park's initial flaws were the result of the concept or the execution, one is left wondering why Disney continues to open incomplete parks. Isn't it humiliating enough to have to list strolling characters as park attractions on the official website?
But some of the most interesting comments dealt with Knott's Berry Farm...
Tied up in Knott's
We had chosen to make Knott's our hub for the first half of our trip. Cedar Fair is cool enough to furnish its investors with discounts at the adjacent Radisson, and the central location made it ideal to check out other area attractions before hitting the park for a couple of hours after the school groups board their yellow buses and move on.
The park itself is an endearing showcase of contrasts. You have a low-capacity stagecoach ride powered by four live horses galloping past spinning flat rides and tower-drop thrill rides. Trains and gold mine railcars circle gently around on their rustic tracks while a half-dozen varied roller coasters take a more adrenaline-fueled approach.
We weren't catching the park at its finest hour. A walled-off lake was drained as the park was laying down the groundwork for its next coaster. It forced the closing of two minor attractions and created a bottleneck at the entrance, but as a unit holder, I accepted it as short-term pain for long-term gain.
I relished the enthusiastic ride operators, and we had such a good time that we wound up spending more days at Knott's than we did at the two Disney parks combined.
WOW, his family decided to spend more time at Knott's than Disneyland and DCA combined.......
However, it did fall short in some ways from the standards set at Cedar Point's peninsular thrill haven. There was no complimentary ride reservation system like the flagship park's FreeWay option. Some of the attractions weren't being run at full capacity despite queues that warranted that. At Cedar Point, the Midway Market buffet is a quality eatery, while Knott's Auntie Pasta's smorgasbord is a culinary disaster. When Cedar Point's new coaster proved to be temperamental last summer, the website provided daily updates. Over at Knott's, its newest coaster was down for three weeks, yet it was still being touted on the park's site as a featured attraction. Truth be told, earlier this week the Knott's site even had rides listed that have been closed for months.
Yet we also appreciated the wider variety of rides at Knott's. That park was shadier too, save for the incomprehensibly uncovered overflow area at the tiny pass-processing office. While I'm not sure how -- or even if -- the ride closings and in-park construction will hurt the 2004 summer season, the park is sprucing itself up nicely for a knockout 2005.
While I like the FreeWay system at Cedar Point, it is a bit of a pain, you get in line between 10 and 10:30 AM to get a hand stamp at 11 AM (Heck, a one hour wait beats a three hour wait), I don't see it working at Knott's, there is no real need for it, as the queue's usually move fairly quickly.
As for Auntie Pasta's, if you are looking for All you can eat Pizza and Pasta, plus Salad, it is OK for a family. I much prefer the Ghost Town Grill or the Chicken Dinner restuarant for meal choices. Or even Amber Waves at the Radisson (Now called the Knott's Resort Hotel).
An interesting opinion piece by Rick Aristotle Munarriz that deals with his 2 week trip out west, in which he visits DL, DCA, Knott's and more. (FYI, he is an investor in both Disney and Cedar Fair)
First, lets see his thoughts on Disneyland...
Disneyland rocked. While Tomorrowland felt hollow without Rocket Rods, Space Mountain, and the submarine voyage, Disney's original theme park was essentially the same vibrant oasis of guests, attractions, and long operating hours that it has always been during the summer.
About right, many people complain about Tomorrowland, and with good reason....
Now, let's see his thoughts on DCA...
Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure.
A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park.
The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year.
Yes, attendance is bouncing back at the park after horrifically sandbagged levels, but rather than wonder whether the park's initial flaws were the result of the concept or the execution, one is left wondering why Disney continues to open incomplete parks. Isn't it humiliating enough to have to list strolling characters as park attractions on the official website?
But some of the most interesting comments dealt with Knott's Berry Farm...
Tied up in Knott's
We had chosen to make Knott's our hub for the first half of our trip. Cedar Fair is cool enough to furnish its investors with discounts at the adjacent Radisson, and the central location made it ideal to check out other area attractions before hitting the park for a couple of hours after the school groups board their yellow buses and move on.
The park itself is an endearing showcase of contrasts. You have a low-capacity stagecoach ride powered by four live horses galloping past spinning flat rides and tower-drop thrill rides. Trains and gold mine railcars circle gently around on their rustic tracks while a half-dozen varied roller coasters take a more adrenaline-fueled approach.
We weren't catching the park at its finest hour. A walled-off lake was drained as the park was laying down the groundwork for its next coaster. It forced the closing of two minor attractions and created a bottleneck at the entrance, but as a unit holder, I accepted it as short-term pain for long-term gain.
I relished the enthusiastic ride operators, and we had such a good time that we wound up spending more days at Knott's than we did at the two Disney parks combined.
WOW, his family decided to spend more time at Knott's than Disneyland and DCA combined.......
However, it did fall short in some ways from the standards set at Cedar Point's peninsular thrill haven. There was no complimentary ride reservation system like the flagship park's FreeWay option. Some of the attractions weren't being run at full capacity despite queues that warranted that. At Cedar Point, the Midway Market buffet is a quality eatery, while Knott's Auntie Pasta's smorgasbord is a culinary disaster. When Cedar Point's new coaster proved to be temperamental last summer, the website provided daily updates. Over at Knott's, its newest coaster was down for three weeks, yet it was still being touted on the park's site as a featured attraction. Truth be told, earlier this week the Knott's site even had rides listed that have been closed for months.
Yet we also appreciated the wider variety of rides at Knott's. That park was shadier too, save for the incomprehensibly uncovered overflow area at the tiny pass-processing office. While I'm not sure how -- or even if -- the ride closings and in-park construction will hurt the 2004 summer season, the park is sprucing itself up nicely for a knockout 2005.
While I like the FreeWay system at Cedar Point, it is a bit of a pain, you get in line between 10 and 10:30 AM to get a hand stamp at 11 AM (Heck, a one hour wait beats a three hour wait), I don't see it working at Knott's, there is no real need for it, as the queue's usually move fairly quickly.
As for Auntie Pasta's, if you are looking for All you can eat Pizza and Pasta, plus Salad, it is OK for a family. I much prefer the Ghost Town Grill or the Chicken Dinner restuarant for meal choices. Or even Amber Waves at the Radisson (Now called the Knott's Resort Hotel).
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
And here is this great line from the "Unofficial Guide to Disneyland" by Bob Sehlinger...
From a competitive perspective, Disney's California Adventure is an underwhelming shot at Disney's three Southern California competitors. The Hollywood section of DCA take a hopeful poke at Universal Studios Hollywood, while Paradise Pier offers midway rides a la Six Flags Magic Mountain. Finally, the whole California theme has for years been the eminent domain of Knott's Berry Farm. In short, there's not much originality in DCA, only Disney's now-redundant mantra that "whatever they can do, we can do better".
Even if the park was called Disney's Slag Heap, the faithful would turn out en masse.
From a competitive perspective, Disney's California Adventure is an underwhelming shot at Disney's three Southern California competitors. The Hollywood section of DCA take a hopeful poke at Universal Studios Hollywood, while Paradise Pier offers midway rides a la Six Flags Magic Mountain. Finally, the whole California theme has for years been the eminent domain of Knott's Berry Farm. In short, there's not much originality in DCA, only Disney's now-redundant mantra that "whatever they can do, we can do better".
Even if the park was called Disney's Slag Heap, the faithful would turn out en masse.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Then in the first week of January, 2004, Disney Marketing started up with a new Campaign to help sell the special SoCal tickets... The tag line...
"Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for Free"
Now this came as a big shock to many, who in the past complained when folks on the boards said the same thing in regards to prior promotions of the SoCal ticket....
Also around the same time, good news from the park, as it got rid of its SAP (Special Assistance) program, and went to a much more regulated system of matching assistance to need, and cut back on a lot of abuse of the old system
Also in January 2004, the Resort got rid of the "original" logo that featured GRR, and went back to a traditional Script logo that gave more emphasis to Disneyland, and shortly thereafter, DCA's logo was also changed, this time emphasing DISNEY and placing California Adventure in much smaller letters.
Then we had Roy Disney making a statement about DCA in a SEC filing from February 2004.
The filing then took issue with the company's skimping too much in building California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris in recent years. It said the company should have invested more in California Adventure, which opened in 2001, and charged that executives were too skittish over the Euro Disney debacle.
"The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off-the-shelf rides -- is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time," the filing says. "[California Adventure] has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast."
Also in early February, we had this statement from ESPN...
Next year, Disney's California Adventure (DCA) is opening a new attraction, the Tower of Terror, which is the number one attraction at Walt Disney World in Florida. With its incredible popularity, the number one marketing message for DCA over the next year will be launching the new Tower of Terror. As a result of DCA's specific goals, the X Games Xperience will not continue next summer.
Also around the same time we find out the Super Soap Weekends have also been cancelled at DCA for 2004.
February 8th, 2004 was DCA's 3rd Birthday, and in honor of the event, Disney did absolutely NOTHING!
Then we had this statement from Michael Eisner himself...
May 5th brought the addition of Tower of Terror to DCA, which helps its attendance mix, but by no means was it a home run. Most people have said they prefer the WDW version... so 10 years after the original was built, DCA gets ToT lite.... and after an initial boost of AP holders, crowds have died down to very short waits.
Later in May we find out the SSL had been officially put out of its misery (though in early 2004 there were rumors of it reopening)....
Late June brought the first 1 day ParkHopper to the Main Ticket Windows, at about $20 more than a Single Park ticket, and even less with a SoCal discount.
July had an interesting article from the Motley Fool...
>>Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure.
A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park.
The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year.<<
In July, Management decided to eliminate the wait board at DCA.
Also, at the end of July, the DLR Guide map was eliminated, and once again two different maps were issued for each park, this time with a new "Times Guide" on a separate piece of paper, to allow the Glossy Maps to have a longer shelf life.
In August, Who Wants to be a Millionaire - Play It! was closed, and showings of Aladdin were cut back to 5 days a week. Also Groove 66 and Chance to Shine got the ax in the summer of 2003.
September brought the closure of the Paradise Pier Hotel special entrance, and the return of ABC Primetime Preview weekend, which really didn't boost attendance that much.. should be interesting to see if it returns in 2005.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/artic...le.php?ID=1092
September 14th brought Touch Screen Ordering and payment system to Taste Pilots Grill.
October brought back White Napkins to DCA, but instead of a DCA logo, now the napkins feature the Disneyland Resort logo.
Also, after over a year of having many strings of lights missing, the new fiscal year finally allowed for the replacement of the missing lampposts and lights.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/artic...le.php?ID=1131
November brings changes to Ariel's Grotto, with Ariel going away, and Capt. Mickey and Capt. Rustworthy taking over the place. Of course menu prices go up $2 a plate, but Disney still can't afford to change the signage to advertise the fact that Mickey Mouse is now the main character at the meals.... So we have "Ariel's Grotto" that doesn't have the lovely redhead as one of its characters....
Also in late November and December, DCA was seriously lacking in the Christmas decoration and shows department. No Christmas tree, and the only real Christmas thing was Santa's Beach Bash.
And also in late November, a new themed truck was parked in front of San Andreas Shakes... Of course, it is just one big Kellogg's advertisement!
Looks like 2004 was the year DCA had a bunch of stuff closed or eliminated....
Should be interesting to see what 2005 brings to DCA...
So Far, The "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for Free!" is back
The lowest price EVER for a 3 day ParkHopper at $109 (Advance Purchase)
DCA closes one hour earlier (8 PM) on Friday's
"Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for Free"
Now this came as a big shock to many, who in the past complained when folks on the boards said the same thing in regards to prior promotions of the SoCal ticket....
Also around the same time, good news from the park, as it got rid of its SAP (Special Assistance) program, and went to a much more regulated system of matching assistance to need, and cut back on a lot of abuse of the old system
Also in January 2004, the Resort got rid of the "original" logo that featured GRR, and went back to a traditional Script logo that gave more emphasis to Disneyland, and shortly thereafter, DCA's logo was also changed, this time emphasing DISNEY and placing California Adventure in much smaller letters.
Then we had Roy Disney making a statement about DCA in a SEC filing from February 2004.
The filing then took issue with the company's skimping too much in building California Adventure and Disney Studios Paris in recent years. It said the company should have invested more in California Adventure, which opened in 2001, and charged that executives were too skittish over the Euro Disney debacle.
"The continued suppression of innovation - fixing the off-the-shelf rides -- is likely as the schemers desperately try to avoid any financial write-offs at this time," the filing says. "[California Adventure] has failed and will never come close to generating the financial return the planners forecast."
Also in early February, we had this statement from ESPN...
Next year, Disney's California Adventure (DCA) is opening a new attraction, the Tower of Terror, which is the number one attraction at Walt Disney World in Florida. With its incredible popularity, the number one marketing message for DCA over the next year will be launching the new Tower of Terror. As a result of DCA's specific goals, the X Games Xperience will not continue next summer.
Also around the same time we find out the Super Soap Weekends have also been cancelled at DCA for 2004.
February 8th, 2004 was DCA's 3rd Birthday, and in honor of the event, Disney did absolutely NOTHING!
Then we had this statement from Michael Eisner himself...
May 5th brought the addition of Tower of Terror to DCA, which helps its attendance mix, but by no means was it a home run. Most people have said they prefer the WDW version... so 10 years after the original was built, DCA gets ToT lite.... and after an initial boost of AP holders, crowds have died down to very short waits.
Later in May we find out the SSL had been officially put out of its misery (though in early 2004 there were rumors of it reopening)....
Late June brought the first 1 day ParkHopper to the Main Ticket Windows, at about $20 more than a Single Park ticket, and even less with a SoCal discount.
July had an interesting article from the Motley Fool...
>>Across the way, the same couldn't be said for Disney California Adventure.
A lot has been written about the shortcomings of Disney's second West Coast park. Sadly, it's all true. It remains an incomplete destination. It opens later and closes earlier than its sister park as a silent bow of admission that it is not a full-day park.
The park's newest attraction, a scaled-down version of Disney World's Tower of Terror, is helping. It's the ride of choice after the rope drops at 10 a.m. A summer promotion with McDonald's got us Big Mac-consuming guests in an hour early, which proved to be plenty of time to knock off three quick rides on the new attraction before the rest of the park opened, but why did Disney give in to the cloning process? It's not a regional operator like Six Flags that can afford to dilute the magnetism of a new ride by copying it. Why would the masses that have already experienced the ride in Florida over the past 10 years head out to California? California Adventure has just one worthwhile original attraction, but that distinction will vanish once Soarin' Over California opens in Florida next year.<<
In July, Management decided to eliminate the wait board at DCA.
Also, at the end of July, the DLR Guide map was eliminated, and once again two different maps were issued for each park, this time with a new "Times Guide" on a separate piece of paper, to allow the Glossy Maps to have a longer shelf life.
In August, Who Wants to be a Millionaire - Play It! was closed, and showings of Aladdin were cut back to 5 days a week. Also Groove 66 and Chance to Shine got the ax in the summer of 2003.
September brought the closure of the Paradise Pier Hotel special entrance, and the return of ABC Primetime Preview weekend, which really didn't boost attendance that much.. should be interesting to see if it returns in 2005.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/artic...le.php?ID=1092
September 14th brought Touch Screen Ordering and payment system to Taste Pilots Grill.
October brought back White Napkins to DCA, but instead of a DCA logo, now the napkins feature the Disneyland Resort logo.
Also, after over a year of having many strings of lights missing, the new fiscal year finally allowed for the replacement of the missing lampposts and lights.
http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/artic...le.php?ID=1131
November brings changes to Ariel's Grotto, with Ariel going away, and Capt. Mickey and Capt. Rustworthy taking over the place. Of course menu prices go up $2 a plate, but Disney still can't afford to change the signage to advertise the fact that Mickey Mouse is now the main character at the meals.... So we have "Ariel's Grotto" that doesn't have the lovely redhead as one of its characters....
Also in late November and December, DCA was seriously lacking in the Christmas decoration and shows department. No Christmas tree, and the only real Christmas thing was Santa's Beach Bash.
And also in late November, a new themed truck was parked in front of San Andreas Shakes... Of course, it is just one big Kellogg's advertisement!
Looks like 2004 was the year DCA had a bunch of stuff closed or eliminated....
Should be interesting to see what 2005 brings to DCA...
So Far, The "Pay for Disneyland, get DCA for Free!" is back
The lowest price EVER for a 3 day ParkHopper at $109 (Advance Purchase)
DCA closes one hour earlier (8 PM) on Friday's
CaptinEO
Well-Known Member
All these great articles just make me think, imagine a world where people accepted DCA and it was a huge success. I can't even fathom how bad each Disney Park would be if they did this level of robbery and people were OK with it.
DCA and Studios Paris were the company's attempt at seeing how low they could price a park and still have people show up.
Star Wars Land was Disney's way of seeing if they could make false promises and underdeliver, but still get a crowd. That also didn't work.
I'm glad it didn't work out for them. I can only hope today's generation of vloggers and influencers can see past the "hype" and "excitement" of everything new and look at it with a critical eye instead.
DCA and Studios Paris were the company's attempt at seeing how low they could price a park and still have people show up.
Star Wars Land was Disney's way of seeing if they could make false promises and underdeliver, but still get a crowd. That also didn't work.
I'm glad it didn't work out for them. I can only hope today's generation of vloggers and influencers can see past the "hype" and "excitement" of everything new and look at it with a critical eye instead.
Homemade Imagineering
Well-Known Member
While going through vintage footage of DCA back in the day, I found an interesting ride-through of Superstar Limo where a few of the celebrity AAs were missing for some odd reason. I guess it was just a coincidence that Melanie Griffith, Antonio Banderas and Cher were all removed from the attraction at the same time for what I’m assuming was general maintenance, unless this was recorded a few weeks before closure, which would also make sense since they simply stopped caring about the attraction by then and probably removed them because it wasn’t necessary to fix em at the time. They also disabled their audio cues which I thought was interesting.
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Avengers Campus is not enough to make me return to California Adventure. I'll wait until something different and more compelling arrives. Disneyland will be my go to if it is open.
He and Hench could have killed DCA at the Aspen conference and they just sat there and did nothing instead.
Last edited:
At this point, CA is a great sister park to DL. I enjoyed park hopping between them all day, going back and forth multiple times. With the addition of Avengers campus (which is way better than bugs land imo) I think its a pretty decent park overall, but its still lacking in major ride count. Hopefully the eticket at avengers campus will get built in the next couple years though, thatll help
TP2000
Well-Known Member
@Darkbeer1, those articles were fantastic to read again 20 years later! All those memories came flooding back, and all the hilarious discussions we had online at that time.
I don't think the young'uns understand just how awful, and how discussed, DCA was during its first few years. It's awfulness and it's performance in the marketplace also helped end quite a few Disney executive careers; Pressler, Harriss, Eisner, Braverman, etc.
It was truly a fun thing to talk about circa 2000-2005.
I don't think the young'uns understand just how awful, and how discussed, DCA was during its first few years. It's awfulness and it's performance in the marketplace also helped end quite a few Disney executive careers; Pressler, Harriss, Eisner, Braverman, etc.
It was truly a fun thing to talk about circa 2000-2005.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
There are times when I read stuff, I need to remind myself that not all Theme Park Fans know the details of the 1990 - 2010 Disneyland Resort period. Same for Anaheim Politics, that you need to go back to the 1960's, when the city decided to get into the Travel/Venue business. starting with the first Anaheim Arena (Conventions) and Anaheim Stadium, and encouraging more Hotels/Motels/Restaurants to be built, building a strong tax base.
I decided to wait a few days, to allow discussion of the later periods, and not being Debbie Downer in discussing the early years of DCA.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
TP2000
Well-Known Member
That's incredible! That ride was only open for less than one year; from February 2001 to January, 2002. And they had to remove multiple celebs for maintenance just a few months after very light 6 to 8-hours-per-day usage? (Hollywood Backlot and thus Superstar Limo was only open Noon to 6pm daily by September of '01, due to severe lack of demand.)
I wonder if maybe the ride was so notoriously bad that those celebs demanded they be removed? And that precipitated the sudden closure of the ride just after the Christmas season of '01? There might be a story there...
This, to me, is DCA’s, and by extension DLR’s, greatest problem. The back and forth of guests gaming MaxPass and watching the wait times really kills the immersion. For us Eastcoasters, it’s not dissimilar to how USF and IoA have become a single blob of a park connected by Hogwarts Express with the park to park ticket. WDW isn’t perfect, but those gates were envisioned as distinct parks and they’ve largely held to their identities because their foundations were well laid.
From a fan’s perspective, that might be great and all, but the big issue remains that the second gate lacks an inherent compelling, well executed theme/identity. Surely, the park is in a much better place than it was in its early years. It has become more Disney and received mostly quality additions, but is this truly Disney quality?