David Koenig on the (near-ish) future of Disneyland park

[Californian Elitist]

I absolutely could believe this report, it squares with TDA's recent history of totally inexplicable land management strategies. Sure, spend a lot of money demo-ing Toad, something that is beloved and takes up barely 7,000 square feet and uses every inch of it well by servicing more visitors in a day than that 43,000 square foot tent theatre beloved by nobody and which sits empty for 85% of the operating hours. It makes as much sense as destroying sections of two attractions and important service areas when there was an empty parking lot 800 feet to the west.

More than anything, it seems obvious that they don't care about theme park operations or optimizing land usage or master planning for the future of the resort or even about the theming their "theme park." They care about getting whatever brands they want in there in the loudest way possible, so that their garish additions can drown out the homespun charm.

Spot on.

My trust in Disney has thinned significantly, however if they remove Toad, or any of the Fantasyland attractions for that matter, my trust will completely vanish and that would probably be the end for me.

 

[Phroobar]

Since cast members are often Disney's number one fan, I wonder how many disgruntled cast members this will make if it actually happens?

 

[Rich T]

Rebuild Peter Pan on the old skyway land and increase capacity. Use the old space for a Tangled dark ride.

I'd like a Sword in the Stone ride. I still say Tangled's plot doesn't lend itself to a dark ride. I don't want two solid minutes of scenes of Rapunzel and Flynn bickering.

 

[Rich T]

Spot on.

My trust in Disney has thinned significantly, however if they remove Toad, or any of the Fantasyland attractions for that matter, my trust will completely vanish and that would probably be the end for me.

I'm about at that point too, simply because Fantasyland to me is 90% of Disneyland's "soul" and definitely the basis of my great family memories of trips there growing up. I know Fantasyland can't remain unchanged forever, but losing another couple of my favorites would be the point where I stop spending gobs of my money to go there. I'll leave that for future generations to build their own memories on.

Just to be clear here, it would be the point at which classic, charming rides are being replaced not by something equally charming and fitting, but by shops, meet n' greets, extended queues, fast pass stations, etc.

 

[BrianLo]

I absolutely could believe this report, it squares with TDA's recent history of totally inexplicable land management strategies. Sure, spend a lot of money demo-ing Toad, something that is beloved and takes up barely 7,000 square feet and uses every inch of it well by servicing more visitors in a day than that 43,000 square foot tent theatre beloved by nobody and which sits empty for 85% of the operating hours. It makes as much sense as destroying sections of two attractions and important service areas when there was an empty parking lot 800 feet to the west.

More than anything, it seems obvious that they don't care about theme park operations or optimizing land usage or master planning for the future of the resort or even about the theming their "theme park." They care about getting whatever brands they want in there in the loudest way possible, so that their garish additions can drown out the homespun charm.

Really? I totally agree with what you have to say about Toad v. Wonderbra actually! But the only attraction actually demolished in recent history by TDA was Luigi's.

They managed to add 14 acres to the park without losing a single ride. How is that not good land management strategy for once? I still think people are ridiculously clouded by what is coming to not admit that how they managed to find so much real estate for a boxed in park was relatively brilliant.

The important service areas are also capable of moving to a parking lot 800 feet to the West. They didn't, because they weren't that important, or beloved.

 

[Rich T]

Even if it meant demolishing all of it and rebuilding it to better accommodate the hordes of people they let in the gates each day?

Hey, let's just demolish the very charm that's made this place famous and attracted the crowds in the first place. You know, if we remove Main Street's shops completely and push them to the back as flat facades with computer merchandise ordering screens, we'll have more space to cram more people in to watch our Marvel/Star Wars fireworks!

(Edit) Erm...that reads snarkier than I intended...

 

[BrianLo]

Why do people go all in on the single sourced inaccurate rumours that support their narratives, but ignore the multi-sourced long running ones that don't?

I'll join you all - taking out toad for a M&G (about the only thing they could do with it) is a total waste. It's completely boxed in by Alice (recently overhauled) and Pan (there are limits to even the most cynical of people think they'd ever remove). No one else has supported this. Even MiceAge's actual rumors column.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I know Fantasyland can't remain unchanged forever, but losing another couple of my favorites would be the point where I stop spending gobs of my money to go there. I'll leave that for future generations to build their own memories on.

I don't visit DL often and when I do I rarely spend much time in Fantasyland. If (and that's a big IF) they make the area more navigable and beef up the dark rides I might spend more time there. Turn Village Haus into a proper beer garden and I'd probably never leave.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I'm about at that point too, simply because Fantasyland to me is 90% of Disneyland's "soul" and definitely the basis of my great family memories of trips there growing up. I know Fantasyland can't remain unchanged forever, but losing another couple of my favorites would be the point where I stop spending gobs of my money to go there. I'll leave that for future generations to build their own memories on.

Just to be clear here, it would be the point at which classic, charming rides are being replaced not by something equally charming and fitting, but by shops, meet n' greets, extended queues, fast pass stations, etc.

Completely agree. Fantasyland is the one land that hasn't changed that much, in terms of attractions and such. The outlook and overall aesthetics have changed, but other than that, it's not too different. I have a special connection with Fantasyland.

I'm all for change, as long as there's no damage. If Disney wants to expand Fantasyland, by all means. In saying that, the space that should be looked at is the area in front of the small world mall and the land the Fantasyland Theatre takes up. There's no rhyme or reason to replace any of the attractions in the main courtyard when there's space elsewhere.

At the closure of any of those rides, especially for a meet and greet or restaurant, I would take my annual pass money and use it for more international trips. I just got back from Ireland and I'm ready and excited to see more countries.

 

[Texas84]

I'm still boycotting Pooh at WDW.

 

[Phroobar]

I'm still boycotting Pooh at WDW.

I'm still boycotting Pooh at DLR.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It was bad enough to lose the submarines and Toad in WDW. I don't want to have that happen again with California.

 

[mharrington]

It was bad enough to lose the submarines and Toad in WDW. I don't want to have that happen again with California.

I'd be upset if they got rid of Toontown. It needs help (and probably won't be getting any for a while now), but scrapping a home for Mickey and the gang for an expanded Fantasyland is not the way to go.

 

[mickEblu]

I'm about at that point too, simply because Fantasyland to me is 90% of Disneyland's "soul" and definitely the basis of my great family memories of trips there growing up. I know Fantasyland can't remain unchanged forever, but losing another couple of my favorites would be the point where I stop spending gobs of my money to go there. I'll leave that for future generations to build their own memories on.

Just to be clear here, it would be the point at which classic, charming rides are being replaced not by something equally charming and fitting, but by shops, meet n' greets, extended queues, fast pass stations, etc.

I think Fantasyland is the heart of the park. I would call the West side of the park the Soul with NOS and all the Southern charm. I guess that would make TL the lower colon because it's full of...

TL used to be the "mind" of the park if you will and from the sound of it, it really represented the spirit and optimism of DL. Now it's just the Lower Colon.

 

[mickEblu]

Why do people go all in on the single sourced inaccurate rumours that support their narratives, but ignore the multi-sourced long running ones that don't?

I'll join you all - taking out toad for a M&G (about the only thing they could do with it) is a total waste. It's completely boxed in by Alice (recently overhauled) and Pan (there are limits to even the most cynical of people think they'd ever remove). No one else has supported this. Even MiceAge's actual rumors column.

Aside from not making any sense to remove Toad for a meet n greet there are certain attractions that become part of the fabric of the park. Toad is high on that list. Toad means Disneyland to a lot of people. Whatever they could place in Toads spot would never be worth the hassle and damage that would be done.

For whatever reason the execs don't seem to see Disneyland as it's own brand but just a vessel for IPs now. After 61 years Disneyland is a very powerful brand. And attractions like Toad and Tiki room (although small and outdated ...yet charming) are a huge part of the Disneyland brand. I mean, I think on some level the execs get this because they are promoting nostalgia all the time but it seems they just want it ALL and it has to be RIGHT NOW. To promote all the hottest IPs (to appease shareholders) and maintain the nostalgia. That probably becomes a very tough balancing act.

This is why we need more of a Lasseter in charge of WDI and less of a Chapek. Someone who will go to bat for quality and creativity and not simply agree with suits of the world.

 

[Phroobar]

Why not just turn the non-Roger Rabbit side of Toon Town into an e-ticket Mickey dark ride? They can even keep the name Toon Town.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

For whatever reason the execs don't seem to see Disneyland as it's own brand but just a vessel for IPs now. After 61 years Disneyland is a very powerful brand.

I think what a lot of people are missing is that Disneyland is a global brand not just a singular place in Orange County for locals to endlessly geek out over. As the company acquires and delivers new IP to DL visitors Disney has to make tough choices. It's got to be difficult trying to balance the happiness of its customer base against rapidly changing and diverse preferences while staying true to the park's original mission.

Some things are kind of inevitable. I have no idea if Toad is on the chopping block or not, but from a global brand perspective it's reasonable to assume that Toad might eventually close to make way for an experience based on IP that's more relevant to modern audiences.

 

[mickEblu]

I think what a lot of people are missing is that Disneyland is a global brand not just a singular place in Orange County for locals to endlessly geek out over. As the company acquires and delivers new IP to DL visitors Disney has to make tough choices. It's got to be difficult trying to balance the happiness of its customer base against rapidly changing and diverse references while staying true to the park's original mission.

Some things are kind of inevitable. I have no idea if Toad is on the chopping block or not, but from a global brand perspective it's reasonable to assume that Toad might eventually close to make way for an experience based on IP that's more relevant to modern audiences.

I feel the Disneyland brand has such strong appeal that it doesn't need everything to be tied to the hottest IP to survive or thrive. HM is still an original attraction, no IP, first opened in 1969 and they keep replicating it all over the world and even created a sort of spin off in Mystic Manor as recently as what, 2010? Also no IP.

Just FYI, I don't really think Toad is on the chopping block but if it was, what could they possibly fit into Toads footprint that would be worth losing the history and appeal that it has for fans all over the country? A BATB store? A meet and greet?

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Just FYI, I don't really think Toad is on the chopping block but if it was, what could they possibly fit into Toads footprint that would be worth losing the history and appeal that it has for fans all over the country?

What makes you assume the footprint would remain the same? Or even be there at all?

 

[mickEblu]

What makes you assume the footprint would remain the same? Or even be there at all?

Cuz I don't think they have gone bat crazy... yet. Lol