News D23 Expo 2019

[smile]

Epcot will be successful regardless due to nighttime entertainment and WS

kinda like now

 

[SteamboatJoe]

I know this is true, but I would HATE to lose the 1900, 1920s, and 1940s scenes. They are the reason I love the attraction. I suppose they could keep most of the 1900 and 1940s scenes, remove the 1920s scene and replace it with a 1980s scene, then update the finale to 2030 or so. I'm sure I'd still love that attraction, but I don't think I'd love it as much as the original.

What about people who like the 1920s scene? How do you explain the big time jumps? This where Disney gets in an unwinnable bind and just has to do what something that works for most people.

 

[MaximumEd]

I think focusing on the Epcot stuff as something “new” to counter the Uni 3rd gate will come off as a letdown. It’s not new. It’s stuff that should have been done a decade ago. The parks, all of them, still need actual new things and expansions. Give us actual rides and attractions, not more rip and replace.

 

[UNCgolf]

What about people who like the 1920s scene? How do you explain the big time jumps? This where Disney gets in an unwinnable bind and just has to do what something that works for most people.

That's why I said I agreed that they probably need to do a full rewrite of the entire show. Otherwise it'll be stuck with an 80+ year time jump at the end, which just doesn't make any sense. I was just trying to come up with a way to incorporate part of the original show, and keeping 1900s and 1940s with 30-40 year time jumps between each scene was the only thing that made sense to me. Those larger time jumps are probably also a better way of showcasing the technological changes.

Personally, I'd be fine with them bringing back the original final scene and letting it be a retro look back at technology from the first half of the 20th century, but I doubt most people would be interested in that and there's a 0% chance that happens.

 

[Phicinfan]

I guess if it’s “very low investment”...like a merry go round...then a poppins ad makes sense...

But that movie did make less than solo...so that’s a near flop by today’s Hollywood standards...so motivation for rides should be near zero.

But that’s 100% on Disney...they failed Mary big time. They had the right actors and motives...but made a straight reboot and that’s getting old and tired.

And that is embarrassing for Disney - frankly. Bad management...do something other than a remake, will ya?

And don’t look now...but they have TWO awful looking big name sequels on deck as well.

Ok...back on target.

I honestly have not seen the redo Poppins, my Daughter did and enjoyed it, but wasn't in love with it. I too am surprised with the change in actors they just rebooted, rather than go some new updated ongoing direction. So I am with you there.

I have enjoyed: Pete's Dragon, Jungle Book and Lion King. My family thoroughly enjoyed Cinderella. We all thought casting was a HUGE loss for BatB - Hermoine was a mess

So I don't intend to see Little Mermaid. But, if rumors are true, I look forward to Sword in the Stone - one of my all time favorites.

So back on D23, I do think an add to UK is needed, and hopefully it will integrate both movies not just the remake.

 

[Phicinfan]

I think focusing on the Epcot stuff as something “new” to counter the Uni 3rd gate will come off as a letdown. It’s not new. It’s stuff that should have been done a decade ago. The parks, all of them, still need actual new things and expansions. Give us actual rides and attractions, not more rip and replace.

Honestly, that will fully depend on what they announce.
IF they are really rebooting Epcot, then they have to do so with enthusiasm.
1) Call out redoing SSE with a new ride system or some major updates
2) Redo Imagination and fix the issues - and leave Figment alone well at least keep him
3) Call out the FW is now.....whatever and what is the theme of this new park
4) Show real art of what the core will be, and include what added features will be there.
5) this MUST include adds to WS - UK ride and a new Pavilion to me are a must if this is really to ramp up vs. Universal.

Then you basically call out you have redone Epcot into a new park, and hope you have not offended those that truly loved the old park.

That might just do it, but it has to have ADDS not just REDOs.

 

[MaximumEd]

Does Epcot have any expansion pads besides the WS ones?

 

[seascape]

I think focusing on the Epcot stuff as something “new” to counter the Uni 3rd gate will come off as a letdown. It’s not new. It’s stuff that should have been done a decade ago. The parks, all of them, still need actual new things and expansions. Give us actual rides and attractions, not more rip and replace.

Considering Universal's Epic Universal (UEU) will not be open until 2023 or 2024, no one should be disappointed in any of the announcements. Everything Disney is doing in Epcot, AK and DHS will be open before UEU.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pandora and SWGE had higher stakes. Epcot will be successful regardless due to nighttime entertainment and WS. But the cost certainly does raise the stakes. Disney was banking on Pandora to turn AK into a full-day park ($$$), and SWGE was needed to start getting DHS closer to that as well as being the driving force behind an expected 10-30% increase in DLR attendance for the next 5+ years.

What on earth about what they’ve done makes you think mgm is “full day”?

Nothing of the sort...in fact - by not expanding footprint to accommodate full day crowds now - they basically locked it in for what it will be: a small collection of rides on a small footprint

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Does Epcot have any expansion pads besides the WS ones?

They have space for quite a few...but they haven’t made an effort to use any in a meaningful way really since 1988

 

[spacemountaincarlo]

Considering Universal's Epic Universal (UEU) will not be open until 2023 or 2024, no one should be disappointed in any of the announcements. Everything Disney is doing in Epcot, AK and DHS will be open before UEU.

At the very least, there's a spot between The Seas and The Land, where they were going to put that movie pavilion (I believe?)

 

[Ghost of Disney Past]

Interesting to me how so many paint such a bleak picture on the current state of Epcot. Has performance at this park really stagnated as severely as some commenters imply?

Regarding D23, some of the rumors excite me, but most simply feel like Disney is seeking to capitalize on recent success with IP (such as Guardians, Frozen) without any regard to whether it fits the feel or theming of a given park/area. I really fear a total loss of the Seas and attractions such as Living With the Land to be replaced by bright and flashy new attractions which we will be told preserve and expand upon the original intent of the park...

I would hope to see meaningful additions to WS (potentially a new pavilion); additions that actually exhibit the given country, not simply serve as a façade used to shoehorn in another thinly veiled attempt to justify an IP making sense with a country (RIP Norway). And I would love to see non-specific IP attractions in FW, similar to LwtL and Spaceship Earth. But the rumblings of a SE overhaul have me concerned more than anything else that has been discussed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Interesting to me how so many paint such a bleak picture on the current state of Epcot. Has performance at this park really stagnated as severely as some commenters imply?

Regarding D23, some of the rumors excite me, but most simply feel like Disney is seeking to capitalize on recent success with IP (such as Guardians, Frozen) without any regard to whether it fits the feel or theming of a given park/area. I really fear a total loss of the Seas and attractions such as Living With the Land to be replaced by bright and flashy new attractions which we will be told preserve and expand upon the original intent of the park...

I would hope to see meaningful additions to WS (potentially a new pavilion); additions that actually exhibit the given country, not simply serve as a façade used to shoehorn in another thinly veiled attempt to justify an IP making sense with a country (RIP Norway). And I would love to see non-specific IP attractions in FW, similar to LwtL and Spaceship Earth. But the rumblings of a SE overhaul have me concerned more than anything else that has been discussed.

Both dak and Epcot cost an incredible amount of money to run...which for Disney is “the problem” we have to frame the discussion in.

And the thing to look at is how far the gap between MK and those two parks specifically has grown.

That not where they want it. For 20 years mk grew to a reported 20,000,000 visits while the other 3 toiled between 9-12.

You know where they would want it?

MK: 25
EPCOT:15+
DAK: 15+
MGM: 12+

That’s 65-75 million total...that’s where they will be “happy” with the consumption.

But they’ve spent 15 years coming up with elaborate ways to sabotage that...with lack of investment in Epcot and dak front and center

 

[MaximumEd]

Both dak and Epcot cost an incredible amount of money to run...which for Disney is “the problem” we have to frame the discussion in.

And the thing to look at is how far the gap between MK and those two parks specifically has grown.

That not where they want it. For 20 years mk grew to a reported 20,000,000 visits while the other 3 toiled between 9-12.

You know where they would want it?

MK: 25
EPCOT:15+
DAK: 15+
MGM: 12+

That’s 65-75 million total...that’s where they will be “happy” with the consumption.

But they’ve spent 15 years coming up with elaborate ways to sabotage that...with lack of investment in Epcot and dak front and center

From what I’ve gathered, Epcot was designed to swallow MK level crowds without feeling as mobbed as the MK. The place is huge and deserves much more than what management has let it become. I say this as someone who saw Epcot in the mid to late 80’s and never forgot it. The original FW pavilions alone could handle 24k people per hour.

 

[Ghost of Disney Past]

Both dak and Epcot cost and incredible amount of money to run...which for Disney is “the problem” we have to frame the discussion in.

And the thing to look at is how far the gap between MK and those two parks specifically has grown.

That not where they want it. For 20 years mk grew to a reported 20,000,000 visits while the other 3 toiled between 9-12.

You know where they would want it?

MK: 25
EPCOT:15+
DAK: 15+
MGM: 12+

That’s 65-75 million total...that’s where they will be “happy” with the consumption.

But they’ve spent 15 years coming up with elaborate ways to sabotage that...with lack of investment in Epcot and dak front and center

Nicely laid out.

I would expect AK continues to get a boost from Pandora but that expansion has to be high on the cost of operation. Makes me wonder what the margins are on return for the increase in visitors that generates.

MGM SHOULD see an uptick with SWGE.

Regarding EPCOT, I just wonder if it will become some conglomeration of mis-matched attractions that lacks any semblance of overall theme. Maybe I'm just pessimistic. Or maybe it's really just all about the number$.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Nicely laid out.

I would expect AK continues to get a boost from Pandora but that expansion has to be high on the cost of operation. Makes me wonder what the margins are on return for the increase in visitors that generates.

MGM SHOULD see an uptick with SWGE.

Regarding EPCOT, I just wonder if it will become some conglomeration of mis-matched attractions that lacks any semblance of overall theme. Maybe I'm just pessimistic. Or maybe it's really just all about the number$.

Well I still haven’t posted my full Star Wars take after visiting...

But I can say the problem - other than lack of emphasis on attractions which continues to be folly - is its tied to the awful Kennedy/abrams sequel movies that have no heart and nothing iconic about them. I don’t see a real “fix” for that.

No doubt wdw attendance will shift in the short term to mgm (studios) when it rolls out...but I can’t see it as a driver for increases over time because of how they have mishandled their IP.

It’s ironic. When avatar was announced, the debate was whether IP mattered?
I was proven wrong in that I thought bad avatar IP would drag it down.
But instincts tell me that it’s gonna flip 180 and that “mishandled IP” is gonna drag the Star Wars land down.

It’s already happened. The myth is that people haven’t gone because all APs are blacked out in California. Not so...the regional APs are. So that’s a lot but it’s not everyone. I went with two groups of premium AP holders last week that hadn’t been to Star Wars yet. And though we all said “this is kinda cool” when we were there...we also echoed the sentiment that Star Wars itself isn’t pulling us in.

That includes some males in their 40s (Ruh-Roh, Raggy) and tween girls that are rumored to “love” Rey...

There just isn’t enough emotional to love there. They’ve gutted it on an emotional level and the visuals aren’t enough to compensate.

Sorry...tangent but I think it’s predictive to the state of WDW.

 

[nickys]

Stay tuned...the reported wdw slate is “light” in comparison and the “insiders” have seemed to concede that.

Now go back 6 months...then go back a year...and look at the innuendo. Paints a more lush picture as always. The shovels usually win....usually.


Modern ceo contracts are tied to lucrative “options” as a general rule and I wouldn’t expect spray tan bob to be different at all...

It’s a way for Wall Street to keep their eye on daily stock price - which is all the institutional investors care about.

The slate at D23 May be light. That doesn’t mean things won’t happen.

For instance, it seems that they won’t focus much on the 50th anniversary, but we know that things will happen for it. Not everything is announced at D23.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

Maybe SW:GE will be a hard earned lesson to remember the next time the suits take on a beloved IP for an entire Land.

 

[Ghost of Disney Past]

Well I still haven’t posted my full Star Wars take after visiting...

But I can say the problem - other than lack of emphasis on attractions which continues to be folly - is its tied to the awful Kennedy/abrams sequel movies that have no heart and nothing iconic about them. I don’t see a real “fix” for that.

No doubt wdw attendance will shift in the short term to mgm (studios) when it rolls out...but I can’t see it as a driver for increases over time because of how they have mishandled their IP.

It’s ironic. When avatar was announced, the debate was whether IP mattered?
I was proven wrong in that I thought bad avatar IP would drag it down.
But instincts tell me that it’s gonna flip 180 and that “mishandled IP” is gonna drag the Star Wars land down.

It’s already happened. The myth is that people haven’t gone because all APs are blacked out in California. Not so...the regional APs are. So that’s a lot but it’s not everyone. I went with two groups of premium AP holders last week that hadn’t been to Star Wars yet. And though we all said “this is kinda cool” when we were there...we also echoed the sentiment that Star Wars itself isn’t pulling us in.

That includes some males in their 40s (Ruh-Roh, Raggy) and tween girls that are rumored to “love” Rey...

There just isn’t enough emotional to love there. They’ve gutted it on an emotional level and the visuals aren’t enough to compensate.

Sorry...tangent but I think it’s predictive to the state of WDW.

No that makes perfect sense with what I have been feeling on various other Disney updates. While I have not been to SWGE, the lack of classic Star Wars IP has me feeling that I will be hard pressed to have a really emotional connection to the expansion. I guess time will tell if the younger generations become attached to the new movies/characters. And perhaps Rise of the Resistance will be as good as promised....

When Avatar was announced as an addition to AK I was laughing. But having been there a few times, I think they managed to pull off an immersive and cohesive addition, one that I can enjoy without having any sentimental attachments to the movie.

I'll be interested to hear yours and others thoughts on SWGE. The headlines all seem to laud their newest attempt. But the rumblings of mismanaged IP continue to grow...

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The slate at D23 May be light. That doesn’t mean things won’t happen.

For instance, it seems that they won’t focus much on the 50th anniversary, but we know that things will happen for it. Not everything is announced at D23.

Unfortunately this convention has become their primary “vessel” for announcing anything of substance....
I wish they’d announce something like tower of terror on a Tuesday in May...but they just don’t do that anymore.

And the “50th” is becoming about the biggest Disney Urban legend in internet history.
Wdw does not do these big deal anniversaries anymore.
They don’t need too like Disneyland. It’s just red ink.

How do I know? Iger has never authorized one. And he’s a “numbers” guy.

I think people really misinterpreted what’s being built now and are basing this “for the 50th” argument on it.

They’re trying to kill one bird and parlaying that into another