Rumor D23 Expo 2019 expected announcements

[FigmentJedi]

Disney's Animal Kingdom is the most thematically consistent park Disney has. The fact that you question this means you do not fully grasp the themes which are DAK. DAK is not just a park 'with animals.'

Disney's Animal Kingdom is built around the intrinsic power and value of nature. It is both beautiful and lethal. Nature is at the parks core. Nature is wild; we bask in its glory and are humbled by its greatness. Animals of all kinds live by core principles and by the laws of nature. Animals are nature and are its "rulers" therefore it is the animals which make the kingdom. This is the central theme which is first and foremost to the park.

It first displays that nature is beautiful, and then that leads us to why we must conserve it. It ties together a reciprocal relationship between man and beast (nature). The majesty of nature is the motivation for conversational message, but the majesty of nature (thereby animals) is #1.

Disney's Animal Kingdom is story driven and focuses on transformation through adventure. It is what ties the other two themes together, that we embark upon a journey and it will change us. Hence why the park must all be in 1st person and cannot have book report dark rides.

Zootopia doesn't just defy these themes, it is the antithesis of them, and therefore fits less in DAK than nearly any other IP. In Zootopia, the natural world is no longer existant and has formed into human society. There is no more nature, it is gone, and animals are gone as they have all now pledged to new rules; not to those of the animal kingdom, but to those of society. The basal principles which are nature are not not acceptable in this world. All of nature is undermined in favor of society. There is no wild adventure to be had, no conservation to learn through it, and first and foremost, there is no nature to celebrate, it's gone. The Lion King and other Disney films have animals talking but they are still animals, who must abide by animal rules and act as animals, face the same pressures which animals do. The Lion King - The Circle of Life. The talking or clothes bit isn't the problem.

To add to this, each land at Animal Kingdom explores our relationships with nature in different ways.

Discovery Island is an art colony where all the residents express their fondness for the natural world through their craftsmanship.
Africa's animal experiences are primarily through the lens of biological study and was initially sort of the "front lines" in the fight for conservation in combating poaching.
Asia is very much about spirituality and nature overcoming man. The Jungle Trek is nature reclaiming a hunting lodge, all the supernatural mysticism surrounding Everest and the OG Rivers of Light, and even Kali River Rapids has that logging operation being caught in the mudslide right along with us.
Dinoland USA is about the simultaneous reverence and irreverence we hold towards prehistoric life like a comical memento mori about extinction.
And finally, Pandora is Space Ferngully and while blowing a full imaginary animals land on a specific film director's imagination rather then broader mythological themes will always be a bad call, it's still tapping into those "Man's relationship with nature" themes.

 

[FigmentJedi]

What about Dinoland? It is a human made dig site that was turned into a dino themed Carnival. A lot of the land is made up of goofy looking cartoon dinosaurs. That bare no resemblance to real dinosaurs.

The Dino-Rama carnival is an awkward attempt at trying to evoke how towns near the various Great American Fossil Beds out west end up going nuts with using dinosaurs to attract the tourists coming through to check out the bones whether it be building concrete statues outside their shops or creating dinosaur sculpture parks attached to their giftshops. Somehow trying to translate that dinosaur park idea resulted in "Tacky state fair midway" instead of say "a Jungle Cruise with even faker animals".

 

[BlakeW39]

To add to this, each land at Animal Kingdom explores our relationships with nature in different ways.

Discovery Island is an art colony where all the residents express their fondness for the natural world through their craftsmanship.
Africa's animal experiences are primarily through the lens of biological study and was initially sort of the "front lines" in the fight for conservation in combating poaching.
Asia is very much about spirituality and nature overcoming man. The Jungle Trek is nature reclaiming a hunting lodge, all the supernatural mysticism surrounding Everest and the OG Rivers of Light, and even Kali River Rapids has that logging operation being caught in the mudslide right along with us.
Dinoland USA is about the simultaneous reverence and irreverence we hold towards prehistoric life like a comical memento mori about extinction.
And finally, Pandora is Space Ferngully and while blowing a full imaginary animals land on a specific film director's imagination rather then broader mythological themes will always be a bad call, it's still tapping into those "Man's relationship with nature" themes.

The ecologist in me is more than pleased with Pandora, even considering Beastly Kingdom. Pandora did a great job of making you feel as if it is a rainforest alive, with ecosystems like a rainforest on earth has. At no point does the Pandora fauna feel like utter chaotic roaring.

As much as I love the idea of Beastly Kingdom, I feel as if it would likely tread a very thin line between mythological animals and crowd pleasing monsters. Not saying it wouldn't fit of course.

And yes, each land tends to approach the theme a little bit differently as is supposed to be in a story. Each land is another chapter, unique to itself. I very much like the way you have described each land as such.

 

[FigmentJedi]

The ecologist in me is more than pleased with Pandora, even considering Beastly Kingdom. Pandora did a great job of making you feel as if it is a rainforest alive, with ecosystems like a rainforest on earth has. At no point does the Pandora fauna feelike utter chaotic roaring.

As much as I love the idea of Beastly Kingdom, I feel as if it would likely tread a very thin line between mythological animals and crowd pleasing monsters. Not saying it wouldn't fit of course.

I do think the dragon coaster's story could have been tweaked some as the talking cartoon bats that carry your vehicles thing was clunky, but Beastly Kingdom could have easily tapped into the broader ecological themes. Magic's decline is such a big theme in a lot of modern fantasy and even the folklore behind dragons and unicorns is primarily focused on overhunting the things into extinction whether it be "These apex predators are threatening our homes and livestock" for the former or grinding them up for healing remedies in the case of the latter, which seemed kinda built into that Unicorn Maze's entire premise of the Unicorn only revealing itself if you proved you weren't planning on poaching it.

Non-Disney movie, but framing it as something like the "Last Sanctuary of Magic" from Rankin/Bass's Flight of Dragons comes to mind.

 

[BlakeW39]

The Dino-Rama carnival is an awkward attempt at trying to evoke how towns near the various Great American Fossil Beds out west end up going nuts with using dinosaurs to attract the tourists coming through to check out the bones whether it be building concrete statues outside their shops or creating dinosaur sculpture parks attached to their giftshops. Somehow trying to translate that dinosaur park idea resulted in "Tacky state fair midway" instead of say "a Jungle Cruise with even faker animals".

While Dinoland certainly fits thematically, the story that's made up is cool but obviously just an excuse. They made up the story to 'make the mess better' not as if they wanted to do such a story and so did. It's cheap and dumb and needs to be replaced. Personally I can see them doing some really good rock work and theming Dinoland to really be like the great American dig sites in the badlands out west.

I do think the dragon coaster's story could have been tweaked some as the talking cartoon bats that carry your vehicles thing was clunky, but Beastly Kingdom could have easily tapped into the broader ecological themes. Magic's decline is such a big theme in a lot of modern fantasy and even the folklore behind dragons and unicorns is primarily focused on overhunting the things into extinction whether it be "These apex predators are threatening our homes and livestock" for the former or grinding them up for healing remedies in the case of the latter, which seemed kinda built into that Unicorn Maze's entire premise of the Unicorn only revealing itself if you proved you weren't planning on poaching it.

Non-Disney movie, but framing it as something like the "Last Sanctuary of Magic" from Rankin/Bass's Flight of Dragons comes to mind.

Oh for sure. Beastly Kingdom could have certainly tapped into ecological themes. I just don't know if it would have based upon what we've seen. It seemed it might have fallen to simple tropes of the general fantasy genre. Then again, they did the reast kf the park well so it's safe BK would've been done correctly.

With Everest now, I think a Europe area would be better. We can have BK but also find a way to bring in some temperate ecosystems to a very tropically centric park.

 

[raymusiccity]

While Dinoland certainly fits thematically, the story that's made up is cool but obviously just an excuse. They made up the story to 'make the mess better' not as if they wanted to do such a story and so did. It's cheap and dumb and needs to be replaced. Personally I can see them doing some really good rock work and theming Dinoland to really be like the great American dig sites in the badlands out west.



Oh for sure. Beastly Kingdom could have certainly tapped into ecological themes. I just don't know if it would have based upon what we've seen. It seemed it might have fallen to simple tropes of the general fantasy genre. Then again, they did the reast kf the park well so it's safe BK would've been done correctly.

With Everest now, I think a Europe area would be better. We can have BK but also find a way to bring in some temperate ecosystems to a very tropically centric park.

I agree with most of what you've said, but please, no more 'rock work' ! Little Mermaid- rock work, Seven Dwarfs - rock work, Thunder Mountain - rock work, Galaxy's Edge- rock work, Pandora - rock work....Even the entrance to Tomorrow Land - rock work

 

[justintheharris]

Disney's Animal Kingdom is the most thematically consistent park Disney has. The fact that you question this means you do not fully grasp the themes which are DAK. DAK is not just a park 'with animals.'

Disney's Animal Kingdom is built around the intrinsic power and value of nature. It is both beautiful and lethal. Nature is at the parks core. Nature is wild; we bask in its glory and are humbled by its greatness. Animals of all kinds live by core principles and by the laws of nature. Animals are nature and are its "rulers" therefore it is the animals which make the kingdom. This is the central theme which is first and foremost to the park.

It first displays that nature is beautiful, and then that leads us to why we must conserve it. It ties together a reciprocal relationship between man and beast (nature). The majesty of nature is the motivation for conversational message, but the majesty of nature (thereby animals) is #1.

Disney's Animal Kingdom is story driven and focuses on transformation through adventure. It is what ties the other two themes together, that we embark upon a journey and it will change us. Hence why the park must all be in 1st person and cannot have book report dark rides.

Zootopia doesn't just defy these themes, it is the antithesis of them, and therefore fits less in DAK than nearly any other IP. In Zootopia, the natural world is no longer existant and has formed into human society. There is no more nature, it is gone, and animals are gone as they have all now pledged to new rules; not to those of the animal kingdom, but to those of society. The basal principles which are nature are not not acceptable in this world. All of nature is undermined in favor of society. There is no wild adventure to be had, no conservation to learn through it, and first and foremost, there is no nature to celebrate, it's gone. The Lion King and other Disney films have animals talking but they are still animals, who must abide by animal rules and act as animals, face the same pressures which animals do. The Lion King - The Circle of Life. The talking or clothes bit isn't the problem.

Once again, we've faulted to the defense of "Zootopia doesn't fit Animal Kingdom's theme." Themes of a park can change and need to change. In addition, Disney can make it work depending on how the angle the land. I'm sure this forum threw a hissy fit when Pandora was announced claiming it wouldn't fit in Animal Kingdom (For some entertainment, go read the initial comments when Disney announced Avatar land about how everyone said they would hate it and never visit it). Pandora works well in Animal Kingdom because they took a conservation angle to it. Zootopia can go the same route. It's only a matter of how. For all we know, that's why Disney OK-ed it in China (also helped by the fact it's the highest grossing animated movie in China) and are still on the drawing board for Animal Kingdom.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

It's amazing how the antiZootopia people react to different opinions.

"Well it doesn't fit."
"Well Disney made a mistake of putting that land or attraction."
"Well Animal Kingdom is different than every other park in the world."

 

[BlakeW39]

I agree with most of what you've said, but please, no more 'rock work' ! Little Mermaid- rock work, Seven Dwarfs - rock work, Thunder Mountain - rock work, Galaxy's Edge- rock work, Pandora - rock work....Even the entrance to Tomorrow Land - rock work

Haha well I think there are rocks everwhere. So if we want to keep this land and not just turn it into a primal forest or the like, then we'll need some RSR/BTMM type red rock work. It will make the dig fit in more as well.

 

[peter11435]

It's amazing how the antiZootopia people react to different opinions.

"Well it doesn't fit."
"Well Disney made a mistake of putting that land or attraction."
"Well Animal Kingdom is different than every other park in the world."

Those are all true.

Zootopia doesn’t fit at Animal Kingdom.

Disney has made mistakes with lands and attractions in other parks. They have not yet made those mistakes with Animal Kingdom. So don’t encourage them.

Animal kingdom is different in that it’s the only Disney park that has remained true to its original theme and been consistent with its execution.

I’m not anti zootopia. I would welcome the addition at the park it belongs in.

 

[Disney Maddux]

Once again, we've faulted to the defense of "Zootopia doesn't fit Animal Kingdom's theme." Themes of a park can change and need to change. In addition, Disney can make it work depending on how the angle the land. I'm sure this forum threw a hissy fit when Pandora was announced claiming it wouldn't fit in Animal Kingdom (For some entertainment, go read the initial comments when Disney announced Avatar land about how everyone said they would hate it and never visit it). Pandora works well in Animal Kingdom because they took a conservation angle to it. Zootopia can go the same route. It's only a matter of how. For all we know, that's why Disney OK-ed it in China (also helped by the fact it's the highest grossing animated movie in China) and are still on the drawing board for Animal Kingdom.

This is exactly what I've been saying:

Yes, if it were to just be a normal Zootopia land, it would not fit in DAK in the slightest. But they can do the exact same thing they did with Avatar: Tweak it and make the land based around a wonderful message about nature.

 

[BlakeW39]

It's amazing how the antiZootopia people react to different opinions.

"Well it doesn't fit."
"Well Disney made a mistake of putting that land or attraction."

You were the one who didn't know DAK's themes. I have merely said why it should not happen. Those points are both very correct. What I find funny are the rebuttals to arguments you know you can't win.

Somehow you guys want to complain about Epcot but here we have an Epcot-like park in its unique cohesion with a central, important theme, and some people who are uninterested and unempathetic to the theme of this park in general just want to ruin it as they have its sister park. You better be eatin up that GotG coaster, that's all I'm going to say.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Disney has made mistakes with lands and attractions in other parks. They have not yet made those mistakes with Animal Kingdom. So don’t encourage them.

Animal kingdom is different in that it’s the only Disney park that has remained true to its original theme and been consistent with its execution.

I thought many of you people have been saying "AK's theme is about conservation and helping earth's animals."

How does that fit with the Yeti and the fictional alien animals in Pandora? You know these creatures are probably not real right? I don't see people saying save the rampaging yeti.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

You were the one who didn't know DAK's themes. I have merely said why it should not happen. Those points are both very correct. What I find funny are the rebuttals to arguments you know you can't win.

Somehow you guys want to complain about Epcot but here we have an Epcot-like park in its unique cohesion with a central, important theme, and some people who are uninterested and unempathetic to the theme of this park in general just want to ruin it as they have its sister park. You better be eatin up that GotG coaster, that's all I'm going to say.

LOL, you're the one making up things. I've given you the opening speech for the park. You can't generalize parks to one thing, in this case real animals.

 

[peter11435]

I thought many of you people have been saying "AK's theme is about conservation and helping earth's animals."

How does that fit with the Yeti and the fictional alien animals in Pandora? You know these creatures are probably not real right? I don't see people saying save the rampaging yeti.

That’s not what animal kingdoms theme is and I haven’t seen anyone here state it as such. It’s about the intrinsic value of nature and mans relationship with the natural world. Conservation messages and calls to action are a secondary product.

 

[peter11435]

LOL, you're the one making up things. I've given you the opening speech for the park. You can't generalize parks to one thing, in this case real animals.

Nobody is saying the park can only include real animals.

The opening speech of the park is great, but it doesn’t represent the theme of the park. The speech obviously includes animals that aren’t real which is perfect because the theme of the park does not conflict with this.

 

[BlakeW39]

Once again, we've faulted to the defense of "Zootopia doesn't fit Animal Kingdom's theme." Themes of a park can change and need to change. In addition, Disney can make it work depending on how the angle the land. I'm sure this forum threw a hissy fit when Pandora was announced claiming it wouldn't fit in Animal Kingdom (For some entertainment, go read the initial comments when Disney announced Avatar land about how everyone said they would hate it and never visit it). Pandora works well in Animal Kingdom because they took a conservation angle to it. Zootopia can go the same route. It's only a matter of how. For all we know, that's why Disney OK-ed it in China (also helped by the fact it's the highest grossing animated movie in China) and are still on the drawing board for Animal Kingdom.

This is exactly what I've been saying:

Yes, if it were to just be a normal Zootopia land, it would not fit in DAK in the slightest. But they can do the exact same thing they did with Avatar: Tweak it and make the land based around a wonderful message about nature.

Themes of this park do not need to change. They can evolve but there isn't a reason to change it to fit a silly animated IP. DAK's themes are fine where they are.

What do you guys not understand about the park, Pandora, and Zootopia? DAK and Avatar share the same exact core themes, and they always have. One did not have to change for collaboration. There was no tweaking involved. Furthermore, there is no level of tweaking which can take Zootopia and somehow make it fit in DAK. The world of Zootopia fundamentally as its core wirld builder excluded nature of all kinds, and even goes against the central themes of DAK by undermining nature in many ways.

What way could they ever make Zootopia fit?

Besides, I was debating the should not the could, debating whether or not it will happen is silly because right now it's equivalent to any othee armchair imagineering some will call likely while insiders, whose opinions matter most, actually denounce it every time it is even brought up.

 

[MickeyMouse10]

Alright guys that was fun, but we gotta get this thread back on topic.

I'd love it if they did a Stitch dark ride in Tomorrowland. There's no good slow moving dark rides in this section.

 

[monothingie]

Stick Zootopia in the Canada pavilion and call it a day.

 

[BlakeW39]

I thought many of you people have been saying "AK's theme is about conservation and helping earth's animals."

How does that fit with the Yeti and the fictional alien animals in Pandora? You know these creatures are probably not real right? I don't see people saying save the rampaging yeti.

LOL, you're the one making up things. I've given you the opening speech for the park. You can't generalize parks to one thing, in this case real animals.

I am not making up DAK's theme. What I have said comes from Joe Rhode himself - "the power/intrinsic value of nature; transformation through adventure; a personal call to action." I nor anyone else have simplified DAK's themes to such levels. It is not about just real animals or merely about saving animals.

The yeti and Pandora both encompass all three themes. The yeti is still an animal, he fictional but not human, he is of the animal kingdom. On the ride we are trying to tame his land but fail, due to the power of nature (the yeti). Pandora is a wildlife preserve focused on studying the zoology and ecology of a rainforest, based on a movie about nature conservation.