Crying Children and lots of walking - My First Trip Report (Lengthy Read)

So here we have it my first trip report: Let's get to it, shall we? Photos will be put in later, just need to get the text out before my brain turns back to work mode...

Bio: It's a great two person trip consisting of myself and my better half...Both of us have been to Disney many times over the years but this was my first time back since 2007. A long time from the mouse leaves a revisionist history in your mind of how the parks used to be.

Friday October 12th:

Finally, officially on vacation, I can sleep all day while the DGF is at work. We hit the road at 3PM and start the long tedious drive from Virginia to see the Mouse. By the time we hit 1AM, I can't drive any more and find a hotel north of Jacksonville. We would have made far better time if not for some horrible traffic on I-95 south of DC and north of Richmond.

Saturday October 13th:

Morning! Let's get driving....breeze past Jacksonville, hit the I-4 and finally my favorite place! Arrive at the Beach & Yacht club and it's all smooth sailing. Toss the valet my key, let the bag guy grab the bags and it's off to the front desk.

The CM at the desk (can't remember her name) was very nice. She attended the same college as I and commented on my shirt with the logo. She gets us our stuff (or what I thought should have been all of it...) and we get to our room for a quick shower. Time from leaving the car to being in the room? Less than 15 minutes. Initial thoughts on the room: Very nice, great view, excellent location. I can not see myself staying at another resort after my time at Beach Club. I'd consider The Boardwalk but other than that this is the one to beat.

Take a quick trip to the Captains Grille for lunch. It was arguably one of my favorite meals during the stay. Had some fresh cut sea salt & vinegar fries and a lobster roll. The lobster roll was really good and it vanished from my plate in moments. The GF got the crab-cakes and something else (can't remember right now) but it was good.

After all of that we could finally head over to EPCOT. Best part of staying at the Beach Club, the quick 5 minute walk over to the World Showcase. Head through the gate and are in awe of all the locals and college aged kids enjoying the Food & Wine Festival.

We decide to walk around a bit, get some photo pass stuff done and hit up a few rides before our dinner in Germany. Did the buffet and enjoyed the entertainment. As it was a buffet, nothing really needs to be said. Our time at the park that day was good; however, after driving so much the last few days we are tired and are back to the room before Illuminations. Never did see Illuminations during our stay; however, it's not the end of the world.

Sunday October 14th:
This is the day I was looking forward to the most. Today would be the Keys To The Kingdom Tour. I had heard from some people that the tour would depend on the quality of the CM.

I didn't want to get there late and have to deal with any issues, so we snagged a Taxi over to the Ticket & Transportation Center and from there hit the boat to the park (since the monorail wasn't running). We saw the long long of people outside the park waiting to get in and we just walked to the far left turn-style and enjoyed the quiet. With 15 minutes before the start of the tour, we took a few photos and just enjoyed the emptiness of main street.

We had an older lady but what she lacked in youth she made up for in knowledge. I'm not as big of a buff as some of you people - so seeing some of the early stuff was cool to me. Got to ride a few of the rides with no guests on them as well. The Utilidors? I had such weird visions in my head of what they'd look like - it wasn't what I thought but not in a bad way. After that tour, all I could see through the park were lightning rods. This tour was everything I hoped for and then some. In fact, I'd probably do the tour again in a few years if given the opportunity.

Things to note from the tour as explained by our CM:

1. Yeti will NEVER be fixed. According to the person, the Yeti will never ever be fixed. It will forever be Disco Yeti and it's just the way it goes. They won't shut down their main E-Ticket ride to fix yeti because its such a draw for the park.

2. Avatarland - This CM told me it's not happening (contrary to what every other CM told me. So take it for what it's worth....Her reason was Cameron is impossible to work with and is a total control freak). Oddly enough another CM told me they were about to break ground begining of '13 and they were ready to move really fast on it.

3. Carsland - It makes sense and the word is some people were checking it out not too long ago. But right now there are no real solid plans.....

After our tour was over - we made our way over to Hollywood Studios for our Dinner at the Brown Derby. This is my kind of food and my kind of place. The seating wasn't too cramped and there weren't many small children and it all was tasty.

I had the following: Andouille-crusted Prawn ; Duck Two-Ways and the Citrus Honey Nest. All very tasty, the presentations were good and the timing of the dishes didn't feel rushed. I'd go back there again and recommend it to everyone. One odd note, they felt compelled to mention to me how the duck would be in regards to temprature. I'm guessing some guests didn't know how it should be and got confused that their food was "cold".

Followed up dinner with Fantasmic, some EMH and a trip back to the room. Oddly enough it was the worst rendition of the Great Movie Ride in the 15+ times I've gone on it over the years. The one later in the trip was a lot better...but this one was a female thief with a really bad accent that changed 3 times during the presentation. But hey, what can you do? Not every movie can be great.

Monday, October 15th:

Another day and another tour. This would be the Backstage Safari Tour. No where close to the quality of the Keys to The Kingdom; however, I think it's just because the bar was set so high early on. It was a cool tour but I wouldn't go out of my way to do it. The other one they have might pique my interests a bit more.

After the tour, we hit up Yeti and a few other things. But my gosh it was so hot - so we left the park, went back to the room to freshen up and take a breather and then head on over to EPCOT for dinner.

Diner was a trip to Tutto Italia. The food was great, but I felt that the waiter was really trying to push drinks and other high end items to inflate his tip. The service wasn't rushed but it wasn't great either. Thankfully the food made up for it and we were happy. I noticed a couple to the left of us complain over the "recommended tip" portion of the bill and started to go on some rant about how they weren't going to tip because of the "recommended tip".

Tuesday, October 16th:

Finally! A day we can relax and just do whatever. No tours, no plans, no nothing. After waking up and heading over to the Magic Kingdom we decided to head over to the Crystal Palace and see if any walk-ins were being taken for breakfast. They were! So we got our grub on and I got to see my favorite character: Tigger.

This is when my hatred for the fat people really started to hit home. So many people in these carts gnoshing on turkey legs. I ask the question in jest, "Are they fat because of the scooter or do they use the scooter because they are fat?" Either way, it's not plesant.

Between the new Fantasy Land having a soft opening and the collectible card game being so addictive, plans were thrown out the window. Rides were ridden of course, such as Splash Mountain but I felt we did a bit more card games and fantasy land than initially planned. Story Time with Belle, eh it was OK - maybe it's because I just wasn't feeling it but then again maybe I was just grumpy. The mine cars will be cool when done, no doubt.

Now though, it was time to get to Fultons Crabhouse for dinner prior to Cirque Du Soleil. Dinner at Fultons was amazing. I got myself a whole lobster and some crab-legs. It was my first time ever eating a whole lobster, so it was an adventure. The GF got the king crab legs and I wish she had had a hammer or something. Those buggers are hard to open (FIRST world problems).

Now to the first major SNAFU of the trip. We had seats for Cirque Du Soleil; however, we were to pick them up at will-call. They were already paid for; however, upon getting there we found out that our packet when we arrived at the hotel should have included a plastic card that had the tickets on them and had the proof of payment attached to it. Well, we didn't have it and they didn't know what was going on. Back and forth I went with the Manager for nearly 40 minutes before cooler heads prevailed and it was all sorted out......Thankfully it all went OK and we saw the show. A bit too artsy at times for me, but I enjoyed it very much.

Walked around downtown Disney a bit and then hopped a bus back to the hotel. I really miss Pleasure Island - It just seems like it's needed. Alas, it's been replaced by fancy shops and food places. I just want a comedy club, that's all....


Wednesday, October 17th:

Today is going to be a good day. We start off with a nice character Breakfast at the hotel. The food was good and the characters were doing a solid job. However, that's not the part of the day I was looking forward to.

After eating, it was off to the Boardwalk for a massage. 50 minutes of uninterupted quiet. Worth every penny. I think every 3-4 months I'm going to go and get one. Just takes all the stress and cares away.

After this it was back to EPCOT! A few more rides and more of the world showcase. Dinner was at Chef De France. Now initially it was to be at Bistro De Paris - The one upstairs; however it was under renovation.

Some people gave me the vibe that this meal might not be that great; however, it was! Remy comes out during the meal and the atmosphere was nice as there were no crying children. The food was what I wanted and I left full - wishing I had room for more. I ended up getting the patte, the short-ribs and then some Creme Brulee. DGF got the escargots, the half-chicken and the mousse.

At this point of the report - I'm realizing all of the days start to blend together. I remember going in shops, drinking drinks, riding rides but can't remember which things at which times. The food I remember, but that's becasue I have the pre-trip in front of me.

Thursday, October 18th:
Today is the day of the Not So Scary Halloween Party, this will be fun. We have a breakfast over in EPCOT with the princesses, not my bag but the GF loves all the characters so you do what you do.

Followed that up with some more world showcase and food & wine. Walked around a bit - but once again it's really hot. Head back to the room to get changed for the party. We arrive at the Kingdom and it's off to dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern - you know what you're going to get so no surprises. Eat the dinner and then hightail it to Splash Mountain so we can get in line to see the Dwarves. The word on the street was the line could get quite long. Thankfully we were about 6th in the queue at this point, were able to sit down and wait until the dwarves came out. Also, spent a long chunk of the time chatting it up with other guests....Generally I don't do this - but I made an exception.

Caught HalloWishes as well as I had a DoleWhip Float from a nice spot to watch the fireworks. DGF doesn't normally dig the fireworks but she knew how much I enjoy them so we compromised.

On the way home though, I got a bit grumpy. We got to the queue for the Yacht & Beach about 10 minutes before park closed. At this time there were only a few people ahead of us. Several minutes went by and the long line started to form as people were leaving. About a minute before the bus came - a family with a large family member in a scooter hovered to the handicap entrance and waited. The bus arrived and immediately the fat man in the scooter felt entitled to being right on that bus and the long line of people was irrelevant to his needs.

The bus used its sweet hydrolics and lowered itself into position. Seating for four was folded up so the scooter could move in. Then due to rules of the bus, the man had to sit in a seat (he took up 2 full seats) then his family boarded and took up another 3. So this portly fellow took up standing room, sitting room and just made things an annoyance. The bus was full to the brim, standing room only and others were forced to watch the bus drive away despite being there before this jolly man in the red scooter.

Friday, October 19th:
This is our last day in the land of a million hidden mickeys'....Unfortunately it would also be the day with the worst meal. We spent the early part of the day over in Hollywood Studios and hit up some of the rides. Great Movie Ride with an excellent cast. Checked out the Beauty & The Best Show and then hit up Rockin' Roller Coaster & Star Wars.

Spent an hour getting the rundown on DVC and then took the free lift back to the hotel so we could get ready for dinner at Le Cellier Steakhouse. Small note on DVC, I'm really interested - just have to crunch the numbers and see if it makes sense. I forsee spending many years there if I'm lucky enough to be blessed with kids.

I was really looking forward to this meal. I had been looking forward to a good steak, fine wine and desert. Alas, it wasn't meant to be and I should have made reservations at Victoria & Alberts or California Grille or even McDonalds.

The first signs of trouble were from the moment we arrived. Walking towards Canada we noticed a monumental number of strollers. I thought, oh maybe parents are watching that movie or something....maybe there is some ride I don't know of. There is no way they'd take their infant children here, right? Considering it's 2 table credits and the price of the menu if you're not on the DDP gave me false assurances that I'd have a nice quiet evening.

We arrive and check in and sit in the lobby for a few minutes before we are taken to our table. The lighting was dim but not in the way you'd want of a nice steakhouse. The vision in their mind was probably quiet/romantic/etc. Then walking to our table we notice how close the seats are to one another. The booths are way on top of each other and you have a really crowded feel, not something of an intimate setting or something you'd get at a nice chophouse. I really have no desire to be a part of someone elses conversation let alone hear it.

However, I can overlook that if the food is really good and the rest of the atmopshere is nice. But this would be the least of our worries.

Upon sitting down I notice a few tables over is a small infant, less than a year old most likely. I then notice a few other tables where I can see small infant children. Immediately after that, my ears hear something I haven't heard the whole trip...the sound of crying. "WAHHHH!!!!!" went the small children unhappy to be where they were.

The parents seemed ignorant and nose deaf to their surroundings. Hoping that the crying would stop - we ordered our apatizers. Both of us got the soup that everyone raves of, along with the pretzel bread that was given good reviews. They met my expectations and were tasty....but that would be the last apatizing part of the meal.

As we waited for our entrees to come out (me: Le Cellier Mushroom Filet Mignon ; dgf: Grilled Bone-in Ribeye both medium-rare) the crying continued. At this point you'd notice patrons attempt to talk over the crying, which resulted in the accoustics of the place to go horiblly awry. Crying children has been replaced by crying children and shouting adults. Right before our entrees arived a couple seated near us left and I heard one murmor something along the lines of children crying the entire time.....

Entry comes out and the plate is hot and the food looks good; but it wasn't up to par. The steak placed in front of me was hot throughout with a light-pink hue. The center of the steak was browned....the steak had a nice char on the outside but was not soft in the middle. The medium-rare steak was medium. The wild mushroom risotto, white truffle butter sauce and micro chervil provided a moisture and flavor to the steak that would have been lacking without. Unfortunately my appetite was rapidly disapating as a newly placed infant to my left and a 5 year old in the corner both approached meltdown modes of that which would rival Chernobyl.

Disgusted we asked the waiter for our bill and proceeded to leave while opting to skip desert. We ended up going back to the magic kingdom to walk around, grab another dole whip, watch the fireworks and stay till the end of magic hours. Upon arriving back at the hotel we burned up the last of our meal points on room service and finished packing.

We then spent a good 8 hours at Universal and tried the butter beer before the long drive home. Butter beer was leaps and bounds ahead of the Le Fous brew.

Final Notes: The whole SNAFU with the Cirque was made right by guest relations. Without even asking, they sent me an e-mail apologizing for the situation and remedied it in a way above and beyond what I thought should be done.

Children under a certain age should not be in certain restaurants. Or a dress code should be put in place. You as a parent chose to have a crying snot-bag, so you can accept the results of the actions and have a burger or chicken fingers. Let the adults enjoy a nice meal.

Some people are just rude and some people are always quiet pleasant. The best part of the trip was a couple from overseas we befriended in the queue and asked if Americans really go to Wal-Mart in their pajamas.
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
Can you say "stereotypes" anyone? As a fellow "fat" person, I do not use a scooter. I know that watching a "fat" person eat a turkey leg can be unnerving for some, then I would just look away and try not to be so judgmental.:(
I agree though w/ the number of strollers and screaming babies! I had the same problem! I was surprised at the sheer number of little ones in September!:eek:
 

G00fyDad

Well-Known Member
While I am glad you had something of a good time (I think :confused:), the report comes off a bit haughty. Where did you think you were going? It is Disney World. Of course there are children. There is only one place in WDW that you can eat without a kid nearby. Your report comes across as if you were in an ocean of smelly diapers and screaming infants. I doubt that. There were likely only a couple of babies and only one of them were screaming. Should that parent have done something? Yes. Would I have if it were my child? Yes. But I feel like you went into the dinner praying you wouldn't see someone's little "snot-bag" in your vicinity. Again, its WDW. And the chairs in Le Cellier are really no closer than anywhere else. It just reads like you expected the place to empty for you and have no one come near you. Even the "fat people". o_O
 

Weather_Lady

Well-Known Member
Small note on DVC, I'm really interested - just have to crunch the numbers and see if it makes sense. I forsee spending many years there if I'm lucky enough to be blessed with kids.

[...]

You as a parent chose to have a crying snot-bag, so you can accept the results of the actions and have a burger or chicken fingers. Let the adults enjoy a nice meal.

Oh, the irony!

Seriously though, as much as your tone is off-putting and even purposefully pretentious, you are right about children "under a certain age." I am a parent and can testify to the fact that all babies, however loved and well cared-for, cry. Often. It's part and parcel of what babies do. However, that's why DH and I spent four years of our lives having our "Saturday night out" at McDonald's and Chuck E. Cheese instead of nice restaurants. Once the kids were old enough to learn proper dining etiquette and be taken to nice places, if they started misbehaving in a restaurant, we took them outside and away from other diners -- plain and simple. It is frustrating when people feel so entitled to enjoy their vacation that they forget to allow others to enjoy theirs, or see Disney World as such a family-friendly playground that they forget that not all typical family behavior is appropriate in every location on property.

That being said, I challenge you to return to Le Cellier again, after you are a parent. I suspect you'll find that by then, you not only won't mind crying babies -- you won't even notice them.
 

psukardi

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I had a blast and that was the only meal that was a bit "off". The rest of the time was great - the lines were manageable throughout the trip minus your big ticket rides like Toy Story Mania Midway, which of course are going to draw a crowd.

But yea, I'll go back again in a heartbeat. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't rebook in the next few months....

As far as the crying children, it was more than one person crying....and I felt it to be a bit odd that someone leaving mentioned as well that they endured a bit of an unpleasant experience. One day in a rush we sat down in Animal Kingdom and got the "burger and chicken finger" meal and it was a lot less chaotic than Canada.

If I want a good steak I'll just go to Mortons or Ruth's Chris.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
Generally, it appears you had a pretty good trip. The negatives you site are fairly common complains, but they're part of any WDW vacation.

Disney is a family destination first and foremost, except at V&A's there will be kids and sometimes they will cry/scream. Wheelchairs and scooters load first on buses for safety reasons and it's Disney policy. For future reference, if your steak is overcooked at Le Cellier or anywhere else, send it back. I prefer Medium-Rare and if it comes cooked beyond that, they are gracious and quick to correct it. I've never had an issue requesting a replacement. Le Cellier is unique in a few ways, one being it is very popular and very small. It always seems cramped in there.
 

dopeylover

Well-Known Member
I guess it seems like you had a good time, despite all of the filthy fat people and dirty children surrounding you! I agree, there are restaurants that children should not be in, and I have one myself. But seriously? You're in Disneyworld, what do you expect?

As for the fat people. I know that some people just eat and eat and can't help themselves. But there are other reasons than overeating people become overweight. There are health problems, disorders, injuries, etc. There but for the grace of god go you! I pray that you never have to feel the pain and embarassment many overweight people feel. And HOW DARE that fat man on a scooter be happy and jolly in Disneyworld of all places! FYI- it's Disney policy in general, fat or not, that people considered disabled and/or on a scooter and their families get seated first. Some people may not like it, but it is what it is. Thank your lucky stars you're healthy enough to be able to stand and wait for another bus to come.
 

wiigirl

Well-Known Member
Well while you are watching a "Fat Person" eat a Turkey Leg I am listening to an "Ugly Person" rant about their trip!

Seriously have some tact and try having some respect for the other members of this Forum who may find your choice of language and name calling offensive!

Agreed. I am a skinny person and short and I guarentee I will be double fisting those Turkey legs while my husband carries my beers with me yelling at him to keep up. :P
75.gif
 

rufio

Well-Known Member
I know that watching a "fat" person eat a turkey leg can be unnerving for some, then I would just look away and try not to be so judgmental.

While I am glad you had something of a good time (I think :confused:), the report comes off a bit haughty. Where did you think you were going? It is Disney World. Of course there are children. There is only one place in WDW that you can eat without a kid nearby. Your report comes across as if you were in an ocean of smelly diapers and screaming infants. I doubt that. There were likely only a couple of babies and only one of them were screaming. Should that parent have done something? Yes. Would I have if it were my child? Yes. But I feel like you went into the dinner praying you wouldn't see someone's little "snot-bag" in your vicinity. Again, its WDW. And the chairs in Le Cellier are really no closer than anywhere else. It just reads like you expected the place to empty for you and have no one come near you. Even the "fat people". o_O

Completely agree with both of these comments. Do you think someone who is overweight should just starve themselves? :confused: My mom is pretty overweight, but she now eats fairly healthy and still has the occasional meal out. I hate to think that someone who sees my mother treating herself to an ice cream cone or the like would think like you do. As for the children, all I can say is, "get over it." Like GoofyDad stated, you went to Disney World. I agree that you should have booked V&A if you wanted dinner with no children, because I doubt you'll get that anywhere else.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Glad you had a good time for the most part. I completely agree with the location of the Yacht & Beach Club resort(s). It just doesn't get much better.

There's something about Animal Kingdom and how hot weather is somehow magnefied there. A hot day in the rest of the World is unbearably smoldering at AK.

The fat people on scooters thing... I totally realize that there are people who are in that condition because of your explanation. However, there's also many overweight people in this world that are in that condition because they have medical conditions that dictate that. The problem is that it's impossible to discern one type from the other by looking at them. This creates a situation where it's easy to pass judgement without knowing the entire story. See how that's sorta a calous and insensitive thing to do? God forbid you or any of your loved ones should suffer a debilitating injury or illness that places you in those peoples' shoes. Either way, I'd not be inviting such karma upon me or my loved ones by spewing such about people I don't know.

Kids & babies at Disney. Whodda thunk it? Just take notes and use what you like or don't like to make decisions when you're in the driver's seat.
 

PhilharMagician

Well-Known Member
I had a blast and that was the only meal that was a bit "off". The rest of the time was great - the lines were manageable throughout the trip minus your big ticket rides like Toy Story Mania Midway, which of course are going to draw a crowd.

But yea, I'll go back again in a heartbeat. I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't rebook in the next few months....

As far as the crying children, it was more than one person crying....and I felt it to be a bit odd that someone leaving mentioned as well that they endured a bit of an unpleasant experience. One day in a rush we sat down in Animal Kingdom and got the "burger and chicken finger" meal and it was a lot less chaotic than Canada.

If I want a good steak I'll just go to Mortons or Ruth's Chris.

Surprised you didn't try the Yachtsman Steakhouse in your resort. I feel that it is head and shoulders above LeCellier. Another option would be to go over to the WDW Dolphin to Shula's Steakhouse which is a high end steakhouse.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I sympathize 100% with the original poster. Sorry to be, like him, so frank. I understand there are some medical conditions that exacerbate gaining weight. But I have a brother who is a doctor, and he is of the opinion that MOST people with weight problems, no matter what their condition, could lose weight if they wanted to. They just don't. He's a pretty hard-nosed character who has no use for tact when he tells his overweight patients to get off their "fat butts" and exercise. For my part, it's kinda hard to be sympathetic when I'm standing in line for a bus and I've got seriously aching feet (because I WALKED through the parks, don'tcha know) and some guy or girl with generous proportions comes zipping up in a scooter and one has to wait until they're loaded on and of course their families get first dibs on seats too. After which I'M stuck standing in the bus on those aching feet. After that happens a few times during a trip, it kind of kills any kindly feelings I have for some guests.

As for taking infants and ill-parented kids to the nicer restaurants in WDW...parents, please. Please don't. It IS Disney World, but it's not the world's biggest day care center. Why do you think Disney banned kids from Victoria and Albert's? It's not hard to figure out.
 

PhilharMagician

Well-Known Member
Because it is a designated adult signature dining experience, where all patrons must dress for their meal.

All signature restaurants are supposed to be business casual attire, but you see people in their wearing wife beaters and hats along with there dress cut-off shorts. I enjoy dressing up to go out for a meal. Being dressed up makes it more of a special occasion and then you walk into California Grill expecting to drop a wad of money on dinner and drinks with your sweetheart and next to you is Cousin Eddy and family from Lampoon's Vacation. There needs to be some sense of control. If there is a policy then it should be honored and controlled.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
I sympathize 100% with the original poster. Sorry to be, like him, so frank. I understand there are some medical conditions that exacerbate gaining weight. But I have a brother who is a doctor, and he is of the opinion that MOST people with weight problems, no matter what their condition, could lose weight if they wanted to. They just don't.

Understandable and I don't disagree. But would your brother, a doctor, be able to look at a person from 10+ feet and KNOW which category the person on the scooter falls in? I kinda doubt it which is the point. Unless you know one way or the other it's not okay to cast judgement. I say this as my mother cannot go into a park without a scooter. She's not grossly overweight although she, like me, could stand to lose a few lbs. She's heard many hateful remarks during her travels in WDW about her "front of the line pass" use of the scooter. So not the case. Believe me, she'd walk if she could. She walked Sea World one day in May 2011. Just walking that park for 1 day caused her foot to break. She's had surgery once and is facing additional surgery because of the problems with that foot. Oh and then there's the shoulder that had been repaired once that has to be repaired again because she was on crutches from the foot surgery and fell down the stairs at her house.... See what I mean? You'd never know to look at her sitting on a scooter but when you get the whole story it's different. :)

The parents who let their kids disrupt restaurants is different. I can say it from experience because I went thru those years with my own 2 kids. If they acted out or did anything that would have an impact on others' atmosphere we would remove them from the restaurant to make corrections. Didn't take but 1 or 2 trips outside for each of my boys to learn that they needed to act a certain way or be hauled out where there's no witnesses. LOL!
 

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