Creating New Viewing Stands for MK's Fireworks

[MisterPenguin]

So, we all know how viewing the fireworks in the hub can be a mad crush. And now, with Happily Ever After projections, being in the hub is more important than ever (although that's not to say that 17 minutes of continuous fireworks without the projections isn't a good show all by itself).

Wouldn't it be great if there were other viewing venues for the fireworks that allowed for large crowds, provided a projection show, and, as an extra bonus or two, has seats and could be used during the day for other shows (e.g., a stunt show)? So, here we go...

First, here in Google Earth, I created a red column over the fireworks launch site to approximate the viewing angles for the fireworks....

Here below we have more of an overhead view...

The purple circle is as close as a guest can get to the fireworks over by BoG. The orange circle is on the castle. This means, if you're in the purple to orange zone, you see the fireworks as if you were behind the castle in Fantasyland. Which does provide a good view of the fireworks, if looking more straight up than from the hub.

The red circle cuts through the hub. Between the red and orange zone is prime viewing of the projections. Further past the red zone you still get good views of the fireworks, but the projections become more and more difficult to make out.

Now, what if we can find a brand new viewing spot for a large crowd? Well, let's look at expansion pads below...

Right away, we can see that there are prime viewing distances that overlap with expansion pads in the NE and the NW outside-the-traintrack sections.

Let's drop the stadium from Fantasmic! in those corners, throw up a big screen, and highlight (in white) the viewing angle. And just for fun, let's drop a copy of the stadium in the hub just for comparison. (Note that these images are 'floated' much higher than they would be in reality just so the trees in Google Earth don't obscure them.)

Some notes:

The screens could be just that, giant screens. Or, they can be the side of a building, such as a big old warehouse for a new dark ride. Or, they can be made to look like either the Cindy Castle or like the Fantasmic Mountain or whatever backdrop you need for a day-show. If it's just a giant screen or wall, it can project the castle so that you see exactly what the hub sees (without any of the pesky limitations of viewing angles due to the architecture).

The NE stadium is starting to get a bit close to the fireworks, which would require a higher or closer 'screen'. It could keep the lake in front of it. The NE stadium would be relatively easy to get to. They could conceivably make the walk-way overpass for TRON the point of entry.

The NW stadium is a bit problematic to get to. But it's the same problem for using any of the north west expansion pads: namely, getting past BTM. Haunted Mansion and RoA hem it in on one side. And on the other side you have to get past the WDRR tracks and hide all that backstage stuff. (Of course, in the picture above of expansion pad, I left out one of the biggest and most controversial expansion pads, namely, RoA itself.)

And here's a view from the NW stadium (again, everything is a tree's-height taller than it needs be to draw it over the trees)...

So... why?

• Reduce crowding in the hub. Each stadium seats 7,000 easily. When you ask everyone in the park to all converge on one spot at the same time... not such a good idea. Also, with how far they are into the park, they won't be part of that first wave of people exiting right after the fireworks are over. In fact, WDW could throw a bonus short on the screen after the fireworks to keep them held back another 5 minutes.

• Provide seating (RoL is so much enhanced by being able to sit). It is the seating that will draw people away from the hub who might have been more inclined to see the "more magical" projections on the castle. Stand and castle, or, sit and wall. I'll take a seat, thank-you.

• "Eat people" during the day with day-shows. Stunt shows, water shows, stage shows, whatever. In fact, the NW stadium is relatively close to the Frontierland start for the parades. So maybe in conjunction with another day show, the parade can do a loop in front of the stadium, taking 7,000 people off the streets to watch the parade.

-Mister Where-Can-I-Find-A-Seat Penguin

 

[EPICOT]

Where's the plan to fill the hub with bleachers?

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

So, we all know how viewing the fireworks in the hub can be a mad crush. And now, with Happily Ever After projections, being in the hub is more important than every (although 17 minutes of continuous fireworks without the projections isn't a good show all by itself).

Wouldn't it be great if there were other viewing venues for the fireworks that allowed for large crowds, provided a projection show, and, as an extra bonus or two, has seats and could be used during the day for other shows (e.g., a stunt show)? So, here we go...

First, here in Google Earth, I created a red column over the fireworks launch site to approximate the viewing angles for the f.w....

View attachment 285378

Here below we have more of an overhead view...

View attachment 285381

The purple circle is as close as a guest can get to the f.w. over by BoG. The orange circle is on the castle. This means, if you're in the purple to orange zone, you see the f.w. as if you were behind the castle in Fantasyland. Which does provide a good view of the f.w., if more straight up than near the horizon.

The red circle cuts through the hub. Between the red and orange zone is prime viewing of the projections. Further past the red zone you still get good views of the f.w., but the projections become more and more difficult to make out.

Now, what if we can find a brand new viewing spot for a large crowd? Well, let's look at expansion pads below...

View attachment 285379

Right away, we can see that there are prime viewing distances that overlap with expansion pads in the NE and the NW outside-the-traintrack sections.

Let's drop the stadium from Fantasmic! in those corners, throw up a big screen, and highlight (in white) the viewing angle. And just for fun, let's drop a copy of the stadium in the hub just for comparison. (Note that these images are 'floated' much higher than they would be in reality just so the trees in Google Earth don't obscure them.)

View attachment 285383

Some notes:

The screens could be just that, giant screens. Or, they can be the side of a building, such as a big old warehouse for a new dark ride. Or, they can be made like either the Cindy Castle or like the Fantasmic Mountain or whatever backdrop you need for a day-show. If it's just a giant screen or wall, it can project the castle so that you see exactly what the hub sees (without any of the pesky limitations of viewing angles due to the architecture).

The NE stadium is starting to get a bit close to the f.w., which would require a higher 'screen'. It could keep the lake in front of it. The NE stadium would be relatively easy to get to. They could conceivably make the walk-way overpass for TRON the point of entry.

The NW stadium is a bit problematic to get to. But it's the same problem for using any of the north west expansion pads: getting past BTM. Haunted Mansion and RoA hem one in on one side. And on the other you have to get past the WDRR tracks and hide all that backstage stuff. (Of course, in the picture above of expansion pad, I left out one of the biggest and most controversial expansion pads, namely, RoA itself.)

And here's a view from the NW stadium (again, everything is a tree's-height taller than it needs be to draw it over the trees)...

View attachment 285384

So... why?

• Reduce crowding in the hub. Each stadium seats 7,000 easily. When you ask everyone in the park to all converge on one spot at the same time... not such a good idea. Also, with how far they are into the parks, they won't be part of that first wave of people exiting right after the fireworks are over. In fact, throw a bonus short on the screen to keep them held back another 5 minutes.

• Provide seating (RoL is so much enhanced by being able to sit). It is the seating that will draw people away from the hub who might have been more inlcined to see the more magical projections on the castle. Stand and castle, or, sit and wall. I'll take a seat, thank-you.

• "Eat people" during the day with day-shows. Stunt shows, water shows, stage shows, whatever. In fact, the NW stadium is relatively close to the Frontierland start for the parades. So maybe in conjunction with another day show, the parade can do a loop in front of the stadium, taking 7,000 people off the streets to watch the parade.

-Mister Where-Can-I-Find-A-Seat Penguin

Very cool idea if all the viewing angles worked out and you still had a good scope of the fireworks. Even if you only did one of them, the pressure it woukd alleviate on the hub would be great. Plus it would help ease some of the pain of losing the main street theater.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Where's the plan to fill the hub with bleachers?

I've thought about that. A lot. Every time I've ever watched a hub-show.

 

[stitchcastle]

don't mean to be negative but, doesn't this take away from the magic of being on Main Street/ The hub, just generally inside the park for the fireworks? I mean what makes the projections magical is that they are projected on the castle itself so having to line up and sit in a stadium to watch a projection of projections would just be rather anticlimactic right? Wouldn't it be more economical to just redesign the fireworks shows to not be so reliant on castle projections? (Or even just have multiple shows a night?) I mean the last thing we need is another theme park attraction where we sit down and watch a screen.

If seating is such an important thing then they can renovate the roofs of Main Street and have them be turned into premium viewing terraces. and then for the guest flow issues, Disneyland Paris has basically solved this with the Main Street adjacent arcades.

 

[MisterPenguin]

don't mean to be negative but, doesn't this take away from the magic of being on Main Street/ The hub, just generally inside the park for the fireworks? I mean what makes the projections magical is that they are projected on the castle itself so having to line up and sit in a stadium to watch a projection of projections would just be rather anticlimactic right? Wouldn't it be more economical to just redesign the fireworks shows to not be so reliant on castle projections? (Or even just have multiple shows a night?) I mean the last thing we need is another theme park attraction where we sit down and watch a screen.

If seating is such an important thing then they can renovate the roofs of Main Street and have them be turned into premium viewing terraces. and then for the guest flow issues, Disneyland Paris has basically solved this with the Main Street adjacent arcades.

Castle projections are rather new-ish. They're not sacrosanct. A lot of people in the outer regions of the hub or not even in the hub never get to see the projections. And rooftop seating... as problematic as that would be to construct and get thousands of people up and down from there, and not have it destroy sight-lines... wouldn't get you close enough to see the projections.

The guest flow isn't the big probem. It's getting more people than can fit in the hub to see the projections. If so many people can't see the projections clearly (or at all), then the next best thing is a secondary viewing stadium, which has other purposes.

 

[stitchcastle]

Castle projections are rather new-ish. They're not sacrosanct. A lot of people in the outer regions of the hub or not even in the hub never get to see the projections. And rooftop seating... as problematic as that would be to construct and get thousands of people up and down from there, and not have it destroy sight-lines... wouldn't get you close enough to see the projections.

The guest flow isn't the big probem. It's getting more people than can fit in the hub to see the projections. If so many people can't see the projections clearly (or at all), then the next best thing is a secondary viewing stadium, which has other purposes.

Wouldn't it make more sense to just have the actual fireworks be the main attraction rather than the projections? The projections are supposed to be the fun little details that accentuate the fireworks show, not the main draw itself. It's still very strange to construct an entire stadium to watch a screen projection of the castle being projected on. That's tantamount to just watching in on youtube. Also seating for what ought to be a ten or so minute show just doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wouldn't it make more sense to just have the actual fireworks be the main attraction rather than the projections? The projections are supposed to be the fun little details that accentuate the fireworks show, not the main draw itself. It's still very strange to construct an entire stadium to watch a screen projection of the castle being projected on. That's tantamount to just watching in on youtube. Also seating for what ought to be a ten or so minute show just doesn't make a lot of sense.

No, the projections are a main part of the show now. It's not a bad fireworks show without the projections with 17 minutes of nearly continuous fireworks.
But the projections are state-of-the-art and people cry over them. It would be nice if everyone could see them. And also nice if the hub wasn't a crowded fire hazard with people getting into fights over the view.

And, I keep this point, but you keep ignoring it: the MK needs more space for all the people in it. Not just for the fireworks, but during the day. Stadiums for the night show can 'eat people' during the day. It's what the park needs.

 

[stitchcastle]

No, the projections are a main part of the show now. It's not a bad fireworks show without the projections with 17 minutes of nearly continuous fireworks.
But the projections are state-of-the-art and people cry over them. It would be nice if everyone could see them. And also nice if the hub wasn't a crowded fire hazard with people getting into fights over the view.

And, I keep this point, but you keep ignoring it: the MK needs more space for all the people in it. Not just for the fireworks, but during the day. Stadiums for the night show can 'eat people' during the day. It's what the park needs.

That's what proper expansion with new attractions is for. The Main Street Theater would have provided the perfect venue for that as well. (and no you can't have a people-eating outdoor stadium for shows in the hot Florida heat.)

Also what makes the projections so state of the art is how tailored and specific they are to the structure they're being projected on. Having them just be on the screen takes away what makes them great in the first place.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That's what proper expansion with new attractions is for. The Main Street Theater would have provided the perfect venue for that as well. (and no you can't have a people-eating outdoor stadium for shows in the hot Florida heat.)

Also what makes the projections so state of the art is how tailored and specific they are to the structure they're being projected on. Having them just be on the screen takes away what makes them great in the first place.

Indiana Jones and the defunct car stunt show had open air seating. You can still put a cover over them.

You know what also takes away the specialness of seeing the projections on the castle? Not being able to see the castle or being too far to make out what's being projected.

 

[stitchcastle]

Indiana Jones and the defunct car stunt show had open air seating. You can still put a cover over them.

You know what also takes away the specialness of seeing the projections on the castle? Not being able to see the castle or being too far to make out what's being projected.

That's a show issue, the main draw are the fireworks and the music, which can be viewed and heard all throughout the park. The projections are meant to enhance the experience but they're not necessary. It just means you get different experiences based on your different vantage points.

If projections were really that important, there's no stopping them from putting the projections up and down main street like they do in Disneyland.

Creating a separate seating area to view what is essentially just another movie screen for 10 or so minutes just completely negates what makes Disney fireworks so special and is the opposite of an immersive experience.

 

[MisterPenguin]

That's a show issue, the main draw are the fireworks and the music, which can be viewed and heard all throughout the park. The projections are meant to enhance the experience but they're not necessary. It just means you get different experiences based on your different vantage points.

If projections were really that important, there's no stopping them from putting the projections up and down main street like they do in Disneyland.

Creating a separate seating area to view what is essentially just another movie screen for 10 or so minutes just completely negates what makes Disney fireworks so special and is the opposite of an immersive experience.

Well that's your opinion. Thanks for sharing.

 

[MisterPenguin]

How about we convert the roof of that already sloped building in the bottom right corner (SM) into bleachers? You could project onto the Tron canopy and call it a day.

Putting bleachers atop Space Mountain is brilliant!!

Unfortunately, the big box building is not in between SM and the fireworks, only the canopy of the outdoor section of TRON is, and that would be a good surface for the projections.

 

[spacemt354]

Indiana Jones and the defunct car stunt show had open air seating. You can still put a cover over them.

You know what also takes away the specialness of seeing the projections on the castle? Not being able to see the castle or being too far to make out what's being projected.

I like the idea on paper -- but in practice though wouldn't a cover over the stadium similar to Indy block the view of fireworks for folks sitting in the back of the theater?

Also is the screen projecting a view of the Castle from Main Street to the guests sitting in the theater? While a nice idea for folks there's some magic to seeing the actual castle projections rather than watching it on a screen...that being said, after just seeing the show from the Poly last week and barely being able to see the projections - the show is still enjoyable, so if this nets some extra capacity in the process then that can only be good for the MK which needs it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I like the idea on paper -- but in practice though wouldn't a cover over the stadium similar to Indy block the view of fireworks for folks sitting in the back of the theater?

Also is the screen projecting a view of the Castle from Main Street to the guests sitting in the theater? While a nice idea for folks there's some magic to seeing the actual castle projections rather than watching it on a screen...that being said, after just seeing the show from the Poly last week and barely being able to see the projections - the show is still enjoyable, so if this nets some extra capacity in the process then that can only be good for the MK which needs it.

The cover over the car stunt show tilted up so you can see the top of the buildings on the other side of the set. Roofs over a stage (for the day shows) or even the stadium can be retractable or movable.

 

[spacemt354]

The cover over the car stunt show tilted up so you can see the top of the buildings on the other side of the set. Roofs over a stage (for the day shows) or even the stadium can be retractable or movable.

Retractable roofs are expensive, just seems like a lot for the main intention of fireworks seating and watching a screen of the castle.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Retractable roofs are expensive, just seems like a lot for the main intention of fireworks seating and watching a screen of the castle.

Not creating a dangerous crowding issue in the hub and providing people-eating during the day for a park that's already overcrowded seems worth it to me.

 

[spacemt354]

Not creating a dangerous crowding issue in the hub and providing people-eating during the day for a park that's already overcrowded seems worth it to me.

Any show upon its release creates a crowding issue. Have you ever seen Sunset Blvd before/after Fantasmic! is released?

Based on the location of your 7,000 person stadiums, you'd potentially have 7,000 people filing out into narrow paths near Big Thunder and the Fantasyland Station, essentially creating the same bottleneck, just in different locations then Main Street. And many times HEA plays and the park is still open, so 7,000 folks exiting the stadium seating will then meet up with the people already in the park.

I like the premise don't get me wrong, but me personally if you went with a stadium seating I'd have it as a part of an Adventureland expansion, put it in the southwest corner of the park, and slightly raised, so you'd be able to see both the fireworks and the authentic castle projects rather than a screen of them and then have an alternative exit route that takes to directly towards the transportation w/o having to reenter the park proper.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Any show upon its release creates a crowding issue. Have you ever seen Sunset Blvd before/after Fantasmic! is released?

Based on the location of your 7,000 person stadiums, you'd potentially have 7,000 people filing out into narrow paths near Big Thunder and the Fantasyland Station, essentially creating the same bottleneck, just in different locations then Main Street. And many times HEA plays and the park is still open, so 7,000 folks exiting the stadium seating will then meet up with the people already in the park.

I like the premise don't get me wrong, but me personally if you went with a stadium seating I'd have it as a part of an Adventureland expansion, put it in the southwest corner of the park, and slightly raised, so you'd be able to see both the fireworks and the authentic castle projects rather than a screen of them.

The crowding problem isn't bottlenecking if the line has somewhere to go. It takes a long time for Fantasmic to empty out and no one thinks that's a dangerous situation.

The hub's overcrowding is trying to pack more and more people into a single space. That starts to create viewing issues for most people, and fights over getting in each other's way. Then there's the lanes the CMs keep open for safety reasons, but, on really crowded nights, those lanes become the living nightmare of always being moved along but no where to go because all the standing areas are packed full, until you're pushed out of Town Square toward the entrance. And on the crazy Christmas nights, it really is totally jammed.

 

[spacemt354]

The crowding problem isn't bottlenecking if the line has somewhere to go. It takes a long time for Fantasmic to empty out and no one thinks that's a dangerous situation.

The hub's overcrowding is trying to pack more and more people into a single space. That starts to create viewing issues for most people, and fights over getting in each other's way. Then there's the lanes the CMs keep open for safety reasons, but, on really crowded nights, those lanes become the living nightmare of always being moved along but no where to go because all the standing areas are packed full, until you're pushed out of Town Square toward the entrance. And on the crazy Christmas nights, it really is totally jammed.

You're missing my point. You're adding 14,000 seats for what is essentially overflow seating watching projections on a screen with an alternative view for a 17 minute fireworks show. If all of those seats end up being filled...the only route you have is to be filed back towards the park itself. My suggestion was perhaps moving the location of the theater(s) to somewhere that provides alternative routes to leave the park while also providing an authentic view of the projections, rather than a large movie screen?