Cost for expanded Monorail route vs Skyliner

[Disstevefan1]

Legend has it there was a major monorail expansion planned just before 9/11, then of course after 9/11, everything changed.

I am surprised with all the technology advances since the late 70s when the monorail was built, that a less expensive way was not developed. That said, the monorail probably still stands today because it was simply over engineered, built far stronger than needed, like many things from the past.

So, the monorail is out,
We would love People movers all over the resort, also too expensive, they couldn’t even revive the people mover in Disneyland after they BROKE IT trying to make the failed Rocket Rods.

My idea was to create dedicated roadways throughout WDW for BUSSES ONLY! Being dedicated to busses only, this would speed up everything; shorter drive times, less time waiting for busses, more busses can be used etc.

Since these would be special private roads for busses only, they could be built minimally, not having to adhere to the rules and regulations of public roads and can be build cheaper and faster.

As the self driving technology advances, the busses can be replaced and these dedicated roadways could eventually be used for self driving “people mover type” vehicles and we could have the same continuous loading experience of the people mover at a fraction of the cost.

 

[HiJe]

It would be interesting to see what a Peoplemover type vehicle would cost per mile. I would think you wouldn't have the same costs or swampy land issues. But I'm probably wrong.

 

[SplashJacket]

As the self driving technology advances, the busses can be replaced and these dedicated roadways could eventually be used for self driving “people mover type” vehicles and we could have the same continuous loading experience of the people mover at a fraction of the cost.

Essentially just a streetcar.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Essentially just a streetcar.

My idea of the self driving “people mover type” vehicles, would be small, fit maybe 6 to 8 people, self contained AIR CONDITIONED, contentious moving, slowing down at loading/unloading areas, like seen on the original EPCOT film, but being self driving they are trackless requiring no additional infrastructure, just use the same private roadway.

The best part, if there is a problem, guests can be rescued with a tried and true old school bus very quickly.

 

[SplashJacket]

My idea of the self driving “people mover type” vehicles, would be small, fit maybe 6 to 8 people, self contained AIR CONDITIONED, contentious moving, slowing down at loading/unloading areas, like seen on the original EPCOT film, but being self driving they are trackless requiring no additional infrastructure, just use the same private roadway.

The best part, if there is a problem, guests can be rescued with a tried and true old school bus very quickly.

What you are suggesting is over doubling the existing road infrastructure and in the end making a far more expensive system to maintain that a traditional monorail.

 

[Disstevefan1]

What you are suggesting is over doubling the existing road infrastructure and in the end making a far more expensive system to maintain that a traditional monorail.

Don’t get me wrong, I would love to see monorails everywhere, but it’s too expensive. I think it would be a lower cost per mile to create the low cost private roads I speak of then it would be for monorail track, but you do bring up a good point about maintenance! I wonder what it costs to maintain the monorail tracks?

 

[Trackmaster]

One of my visions for the future of Disney would be a rideshare program with fully driverless cars. You would keep the driverless cars on their own roads, and those would be for going park to park and for the resort guests, and people staying off site would dedicated roads from getting off property directly to the parking lots. I know that the people are hesitant to use the driverless technology, but Disney would be a great test subject if the driverless cars had their own system of roads to use that other cars couldn't. They could communicate with each other much more easily and be very efficient and safe.

 

[Trackmaster]

Legend has it there was a major monorail expansion planned just before 9/11, then of course after 9/11, everything changed.

I am surprised with all the technology advances since the late 70s when the monorail was built, that a less expensive way was not developed. That said, the monorail probably still stands today because it was simply over engineered, built far stronger than needed, like many things from the past.

So, the monorail is out,
We would love People movers all over the resort, also too expensive, they couldn’t even revive the people mover in Disneyland after they BROKE IT trying to make the failed Rocket Rods.

My idea was to create dedicated roadways throughout WDW for BUSSES ONLY! Being dedicated to busses only, this would speed up everything; shorter drive times, less time waiting for busses, more busses can be used etc.

Since these would be special private roads for busses only, they could be built minimally, not having to adhere to the rules and regulations of public roads and can be build cheaper and faster.

As the self driving technology advances, the busses can be replaced and these dedicated roadways could eventually be used for self driving “people mover type” vehicles and we could have the same continuous loading experience of the people mover at a fraction of the cost.

That's what Universal is doing to get people from Citywalk to their 4th Gate that's opening up. The city of Orlando is giving them their own bus lane. Actually, the city of Boston has a cool thing going with the Silverline. You get on a bus on an underground station and you connect to power, a driver drives you on dedicated roads just for the Silverline, and when you're above ground, you disconnect from the power, and the driver actually drives you on city roads with the regular traffic.

 

[Disstevefan1]

That's what Universal is doing to get people from Citywalk to their 4th Gate that's opening up. The city of Orlando is giving them their own bus lane. Actually, the city of Boston has a cool thing going with the Silverline. You get on a bus on an underground station and you connect to power, a driver drives you on dedicated roads just for the Silverline, and when you're above ground, you disconnect from the power, and the driver actually drives you on city roads with the regular traffic.

I wondered what Universal was going to do. That’s great! That system in Boston sound great! As we know, they can’t go under ground in central Florida, but I’m glad to hear they have a solution for the Universal’s new gate.

 

[Trackmaster]

I wondered what Universal was going to do. That’s great! That system in Boston sound great! As we know, they can’t go under ground in central Florida, but I’m glad to hear they have a solution for the Universal’s new gate.

Here's the thing about public transit. It'll sound great, and when you visit it and use it you'll love it. But locals will always complain about it no matter what. I loved in Boston for several years and had relatively positive experiences, and people who visited always loved it, but the locals always complained no matter what.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Here's the thing about public transit. It'll sound great, and when you visit it and use it you'll love it. But locals will always complain about it no matter what. I loved in Boston for several years and had relatively positive experiences, and people who visited always loved it, but the locals always complained no matter what.

Even regular riders of Deutsche Bahn, which is now the standard to which all passenger rail is compared, complain about delays, breakdowns, cost increases, decline in service, etc. I loved riding DB for the occasional excursion when I lived in Germany, but perhaps my opinion would differ if I relied on it for my daily commute.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Here's the thing about public transit. It'll sound great, and when you visit it and use it you'll love it. But locals will always complain about it no matter what. I loved in Boston for several years and had relatively positive experiences, and people who visited always loved it, but the locals always complained no matter what.

It's wonderful that you loved in Boston and it was a positive experience. That happens for so few.

 

[starri42]

Here's the thing about public transit. It'll sound great, and when you visit it and use it you'll love it. But locals will always complain about it no matter what. I loved in Boston for several years and had relatively positive experiences, and people who visited always loved it, but the locals always complained no matter what.

Have you ever lived in New York City? There's a reason we complain.

 

[SplashJacket]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I live in Atlanta and there is a public transit system but it is simply horrid. The traffic in Atlanta is absolutely horrible despite its size. The traffic is only caused by the lack of investment in true public transit systems.

The city's solution for the lack of a fully-fledged public transit system is buses. While buses can add to a public transit system, buses themselves, are not a fully-fledged public transit system. A public transit system should add convenience and remain affordable.

Atlanta has a rail system but due to its limited implementation, it is only usable for a limited number of situations such as when going to a sporting event during a three-hour window around rush-hour. It does have its uses but it is far from being able to replace a car entirely, which is the ultimate goal of public transit.

Buses will not get you to your destination faster than a car in any situation. Adding bus lanes, which are expensive, have such a limited impact which will only accelerate your speed in a negligible amount, which is lost by making many stops to your destination. Buses are extremely affordable, but primarily due to their limited usefulness primarily serve the poor. I am not saying serving the poor is wrong, but having a system that serves everyone is a better system.

Barcelona is a great example of public transit done right. The city is extremely walkable, has its own metro, fully separated bike lanes, fully separated streetcars, and bountiful roadways.

The moral of my rant is public transit is best done with various different systems of transportation that compliment each other. No one system is perfect, but any system is better than no system. The Skyliner simply shows Disney is interested in ineffective means of transportation. While I personally, would not have established a Gondola system, for what Disney is using it, I do not believe a Monorail is interchangeable with it.

The WDW we have ended up with truly lacks a masterplan which makes effective transit systems harder to construct. The MK Monorail functions extremely effectively because it was included in the masterplan.

The only way to fully create a transit system in WDW is through various forms of transportation and not just one. The Gondola system is on a much smaller scale than a Monorail system and for its use it is appropriate. Disney is simply attempting to save money on buses in the includes resorts while profiting on the undoubtable Skyliner access upcharge that comes with it.

The Skyliner is better than nothing and does not replace the need for another Monorail Esque transportation system in WDW, however, Disney will refuse to do that.

I must admit, the WDW road system is very efficient. Once fully autonomous cars become commonplace in the coming decade it could become a large component of the resort.

 

[Trackmaster]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I live in Atlanta and there is a public transit system but it is simply horrid. The traffic in Atlanta is absolutely horrible despite its size. The traffic is only caused by the lack of investment in true public transit systems.

The city's solution for the lack of a fully-fledged public transit system is buses. While buses can add to a public transit system, buses themselves, are not a fully-fledged public transit system. A public transit system should add convenience and remain affordable.

Atlanta has a rail system but due to its limited implementation, it is only usable for a limited number of situations such as when going to a sporting event during a three-hour window around rush-hour. It does have its uses but it is far from being able to replace a car entirely, which is the ultimate goal of public transit.

Buses will not get you to your destination faster than a car in any situation. Adding bus lanes, which are expensive, have such a limited impact which will only accelerate your speed in a negligible amount, which is lost by making many stops to your destination. Buses are extremely affordable, but primarily due to their limited usefulness primarily serve the poor. I am not saying serving the poor is wrong, but having a system that serves everyone is a better system.

Barcelona is a great example of public transit done right. The city is extremely walkable, has its own metro, fully separated bike lanes, fully separated streetcars, and bountiful roadways.

The moral of my rant is public transit is best done with various different systems of transportation that compliment each other. No one system is perfect, but any system is better than no system. The Skyliner simply shows Disney is interested in ineffective means of transportation. While I personally, would not have established a Gondola system, for what Disney is using it, I do not believe a Monorail is interchangeable with it.

The WDW we have ended up with truly lacks a masterplan which makes effective transit systems harder to construct. The MK Monorail functions extremely effectively because it was included in the masterplan.

The only way to fully create a transit system in WDW is through various forms of transportation and not just one. The Gondola system is on a much smaller scale than a Monorail system and for its use it is appropriate. Disney is simply attempting to save money on buses in the includes resorts while profiting on the undoubtable Skyliner access upcharge that comes with it.

The Skyliner is better than nothing and does not replace the need for another Monorail Esque transportation system in WDW, however, Disney will refuse to do that.

I must admit, the WDW road system is very efficient. Once fully autonomous cars become commonplace in the coming decade it could become a large component of the resort.

Yeah, its funny that Disney is kind of coming up with solutions for problems that don't exist. Disney has so much land and space that there's little reason just not to let people drive. Traffic is never an issue on Disney property, is only an issue when you get on I-4. I don't know why a family of 5 that fits in a minivan would ever wait 45 minutes for a Magic Bus when the mom or dad can just drive the family two minutes without traffic from the hotel to the parking lot. The only real benefit to the bus might be getting to Magic Kingdom from one of the further away resorts. And I don't exactly think that people get blackout drunk at Disney often, so drinking and driving isn't the concern that you would have at other resorts.

 

[Robbiem]

Is there a reason why the monorails have to be built up in the air, can't they be built at ground level at a much lower cost? Asking as i am not an engineer. Eliminate some of the bus traffic

In Tokyo Disney the monorail dips down when it passes Disneysea so it doesn’t spoil the view from the park.

 

[networkpro]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I live in Atlanta and there is a public transit system but it is simply horrid. The traffic in Atlanta is absolutely horrible despite its size. The traffic is only caused by the lack of investment in true public transit systems.

The city's solution for the lack of a fully-fledged public transit system is buses. While buses can add to a public transit system, buses themselves, are not a fully-fledged public transit system. A public transit system should add convenience and remain affordable.

Atlanta has a rail system but due to its limited implementation, it is only usable for a limited number of situations such as when going to a sporting event during a three-hour window around rush-hour. It does have its uses but it is far from being able to replace a car entirely, which is the ultimate goal of public transit.

Buses will not get you to your destination faster than a car in any situation. Adding bus lanes, which are expensive, have such a limited impact which will only accelerate your speed in a negligible amount, which is lost by making many stops to your destination. Buses are extremely affordable, but primarily due to their limited usefulness primarily serve the poor. I am not saying serving the poor is wrong, but having a system that serves everyone is a better system.

I believe you're barking up the wrong tree about the Atlanta metropolitan area. Its not a homogenous political body, but many. We dont commute to the city to work, but rather from suburb to other suburbs. Less than 10% of the metropolitan area population actually lives in the city of Atlanta. When the rail system was built, the path it followed was to connect the major public housing projects at that time to downtown.

Public Transit in the US is a political patronage tool.

 

[SplashJacket]

I believe you're barking up the wrong tree about the Atlanta metropolitan area. Its not a homogenous political body, but many. We dont commute to the city to work, but rather from suburb to other suburbs. Less than 10% of the metropolitan area population actually lives in the city of Atlanta. When the rail system was built, the path it followed was to connect the major public housing projects at that time to downtown.

Public Transit in the US is a political patronage tool.

I live in the North Atlanta suburbs and everyone in my immediate family commutes to Midtown or Buckhead. My girlfriend commutes to Buckhead. My dad leaves his house at 5:00 in order to beat the traffic.

You said it best "Less than 10% of the metropolitan area population actually lives in the city of Atlanta." and as a result, huge sums of individuals have to commute into the city to work.

I am not saying that the majority of people commute into the city, but to maximize economic development and maximize the desirability of the city, sufficient public transit is a necessity.

Look at Shanghai for example. Previously, it would take over four hours to get between the two cities, but with the implementation of high-speed rail it takes just under an hour. The cities are 305 kilometers and 190 miles apart. I am not saying you should commute to the cities daily, but the transportation is viable, but it is more than reasonable to live to say 50 miles away, something that would be a pipe dream otherwise.

Public transportation opens up many opportunities, economic development, and convenience.

Atlanta may not be homogenous but if I want to live in East Cobb good luck commuting into Atlanta.

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

Interesting discussion, but of little consequence to those that stay regularly at the All-Stars. It’s either the good ole busses or your car. Regardless, on your journey from the very edge of property (practically suburban Tampa) to the parks, it’s rather entertaining as you’re going to encounter abandoned guard shacks, meaningless stop signs, six loopty-loos, and a random McDonalds. #ValueResortProblems

 

[Goofyernmost]

less than half.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't less then half the cost per mile when multiplied by the number of miles the gondola's run amount to a whole crap load more money overall. And even the spreadsheets that you have only show the estimated cost and we all know the number of cost overruns that Disney can generate without trying. Sorry, to say there is no need to spend that much extra when the entertainment value of the monorails is quite will satisfied the way it is. Besides being stranded over water with a breakdown in a monorail is pretty much the same thing as being in a gondola cannot even can be considered close to being an economically or physically wise direction to have gone in.