Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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GoofGoof

Premium Member
Bringing things back to Disney I saw on blogmickey this morning that ToT has started loading every row and removed some plexiglass from the ride vehicles. The queue is also being changed to 3 feet. The pre-show is still turned off but the ride capacity is greatly improved. For those following wait times at the park ToT has been one of the longest waits at DHS since crowds started picking up and regularly hit an hour or longer even on low crowd days. This should help a lot.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Bringing things back to Disney I saw on blogmickey this morning that ToT has started loading every row and removed some plexiglass from the ride vehicles. The queue is also being changed to 3 feet. The pre-show is still turned off but the ride capacity is greatly improved. For those following wait times at the park ToT has been one of the longest waits at DHS since crowds started picking up and regularly hit an hour or longer even on low crowd days. This should help a lot.

For sure.

 

Polkadotdress

Well-Known Member
Not true. In FL it is illegal to deny someone access to WDW for not being vaccinated it is definitely not illegal for Disney to require masks for all guests and then allow an exception to the mask rule by showing proof of vaccination. Then nobody is denied access and all sharing of vaccination status is purely voluntary. Disney won’t do that. Legally they certainly could.
Actually, Section 2 of his order states:
Businesses in FL are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying Covid-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry to, or service from the business.

One could argue that providing voluntary vaccination proof would create a different level of "service" from those who are not vaccinated, in that they have a "more comfortable" experience in at the park.

Also, there is no set documentation process for the Covid vaccination, other than the paper card, which can easily be copied. And, his order further states that the FL govt cannot supply documentation as a means to provide proof of vaccination. So, without a passport, there is no way to do this currently.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Actually, Section 2 of his order states:
Businesses in FL are prohibited from requiring patrons or customers to provide any documentation certifying Covid-19 vaccination or post-transmission recovery to gain access to, entry to, or service from the business.

One could argue that providing voluntary vaccination proof would create a different level of "service" from those who are not vaccinated, in that they have a "more comfortable" experience in at the park.

Also, there is no set documentation process for the Covid vaccination, other than the paper card, which can easily be copied. And, his order further states that the FL govt cannot supply documentation as a means to provide proof of vaccination. So, without a passport, there is no way to do this currently.
There’s no difference in the level of service. If they limited attractions or had a separate line or didn’t allow you into a show or charged a different price for unvaccinated people that could maybe be argued as a different level of service.

Disney will never do it anyway, but it’s perfectly legal.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
I agree 100% that the CDC guidelines for fully vaccinated people make total sense and are following the science. I am fully vaccinated and therefore I pose little threat to the public of spreading Covid so I should not have to wear a mask. Me wearing a mask does little to slow spread. That’s the science. What Disney did is technically not following the CDC guidelines. The CDC has not said unvaccinated people are safe to gather outside in large groups without a mask. I understand that there is some science behind that policy, but not what the CDC has recommended. Ultimately for Disney the only way to effectively follow the CDC guidelines is to ask for proof of vaccination which they won’t do.

I posted a while back that the 3 options were:
  1. Ask for proof of vaccination and only allow fully vaccinated people to not where a mask
  2. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume nobody is and continue to require masks
  3. Since I don’t know who is vaccinated assume everybody is and drop masks
They picked #3 but a hybrid approach which only includes outdoors. Technically the CDC guidelines allow for fully vaccinated people to not wear a mask even indoors at WDW. They are following the Orange County phase 2 plan so I assume once Orange County goes to phase 3 which is going to be really soon if percent positive drops a little then all masks will be dropped at WDW.
WDW opening in July 2020 was not technically following the CDC guidelines either, but they did it. The CDC has not yet changed its guidelines for unvaccinated guests outdoors, but its studies show an exceedingly low risk of outdoor transmission. WDW is still requiring masks in outdoor queues where people could be close to the same person for some length of time.

Absent government mandates, Disney owes its guests a duty to act with reasonable care for their safety, and the standard is necessarily an objective one. Disney had choices to make, and unless its choice poses an unreasonable risk to its guests’ safety, I think they’re okay with the one they made.

I was actually replying to the idea that WDW should have waited because some guests may have relied on the protocols in place at the time they planned their vacation. If someone did book in reliance on Disney continuing health protocols past the time they were needed, I think their reliance was unreasonable. Even so, if they contacted Disney, they could likely get a refund. The answer can’t be continuing outdated protocols based on the possibility that some guests may have thought Disney would not respond to changing circumstances.
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
Here’s another good look at the timeline:
Amazing how science works isn’t it?
Not a shot at you, it’s just that Reason website leans right with most things as I’ve read many article from them. They come at it from a libertarian point of view and that’s fine but there’s a agenda. Like most news outlets, right or left , they have a agenda. What I see in most things that have happened is that the science changed almost on a daily basis so it’s easy for one side or the other to find the “gotcha” moments. I see it as adjusting to new data and getting it out there as quickly as possible to the masses even though the day or week before they said something else. It’s all good though.. the science has got us where we are today with millions of vaccines being jabbed into arms. It works even though we all had to go through the valleys and climb the mountains each week or month with changing data.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
It's my fly home day from my trip, but from what I saw at OKW and Disney Springs, there were still a lot of people wearing masks (more at OKW, but still maybe 30-40% at Disney Springs). Whether that's because people weren't aware of the change yet or they just chose to continue wearing their masks despite the change is a question I can't answer. Maybe in a few days it will be more clear, but sadly I won't be there to see.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
No not a chance. Another poster was suggesting the US should be in Lockdown until 75% of the total population is vaccinated. We definitely are not doing anything like that. Assuming cases don’t spike wildly, there will be little or no Covid restrictions left by July 4.
I never said to stay in lockdown until 75% is vaccinated. I said that is what happening here in Canada. What should have been done is keep masks and social distancing in place indoors til you hit 75%. The other option is a vaccine passport but not many want that.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's my fly home day from my trip, but from what I saw at OKW and Disney Springs, there were still a lot of people wearing masks (more at OKW, but still maybe 30-40% at Disney Springs). Whether that's because people weren't aware of the change yet or they just chose to continue wearing their masks despite the change is a question I can't answer. Maybe in a few days it will be more clear, but sadly I won't be there to see.
My wife and kids went to Hershey Park yesterday after they changed their rules overnight too. Same observation. Lots of people still in masks. Hershey is actually following the CDC recommendations and saying that only fully vaccinated people don’t need to wear a mask but unvaccinated people still need to wear one but it’s the honor system. No way of knowing if the maskless people were fully vaccinated or unvaccinated and cheating the system. The kids without masks were clearly not following the rules but there was no attempt to enforce them either.
 

DCBaker

Premium Member
Current Florida vaccine report -

Screen Shot 2021-05-15 at 2.51.37 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-05-15 at 2.51.46 PM.png
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I was actually replying to the idea that WDW should have waited because some guests may have relied on the protocols in place at the time they planned their vacation. If someone did book in reliance on Disney continuing health protocols past the time they were needed, I think their reliance was unreasonable. Even so, if they contacted Disney, they could likely get a refund. The answer can’t be continuing outdated protocols based on the possibility that some guests may have thought Disney would not respond to changing circumstances.
Disney can’t worry about people who booked a future vacation based on the protocols in place. They can always cancel and I’m sure they can get a refund. IMHo it is a bit of bad customer service to change on the fly with less than 12 hours notice. People may have gone to bed and not known of the change until they woke up in the morning. Yes, they could go ask for a refund, but that’s not really the point once you are already there.

Flip the shoe to the other foot. If you booked a trip for next month now that masks aren’t required and in the middle of your trip they flipped the rule back to requiring masks overnight. Would you be happy to just ask for a refund? Probably not. I’m not saying Disney shouldn’t change the rules but they could probably at least give a little more advance notice.
 

corsairk09

Well-Known Member
So, we may be approaching one of the greatest achievements in modern times. For a disease that was unknown to humanity only about 18 months ago, has now killed over 3 million people worldwide, sickened over 162 million, caused untold morbidity and societal disruption, we miraculously now have the tools at our disposal to end this scourge. Slowly, we seem to be winning the battle, both against the disease itself, and against those who would rather sow fear and distrust through misinformation, minimization and outright lies than join the good fight. I thank everyone here who has engaged on the side of progress to beat this demon... GoofGoof, Helenabear, ImperfectPixie, Havoc, Touchdown, SirWalterRaleigh, and numerous others that I can't think of right now. You've been patient, presented reasonable arguments, engaged with people, educated and served as examples. I like to think that because this is a site devoted to Disney, you've reached far more people than just those who contribute here. We haven't always all agreed, but we've beaten back the deniers, the anti-vaxxers, the Qanons and all the other conspiracy theorists that would rather spread fringe theories than actually see this thing beaten.

Why am I writing this now? Because I think we're entering a new phase. The anti-vaxxers, although they've done their usual damage, are slowly losing the battle for the adult population. The evidence for the success of these vaccines is so overwhelming that it takes an increasingly warped worldview to deny it, and they're all but grasping for straws at this point (the latest is "but they're still experimental!"). But now, having just about lost the battle with adults, they're moving to a more soft target- children. More specifically, parents' fears for their children. They will use every trick in the book to seed just enough doubt into vulnerable parents' minds about the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. They are already starting with downplaying the risks for COVID-19 to children, and although I am the first to readily admit that COVID-19 is not as starkly dangerous to children as to adults, emerging data is starting to show that it is worse than some more familiar vaccine-preventable diseases like measles or influenza. And there will be no herd immunity for the most vulnerable members of our society, including newborns, unless we eliminate the disease in children too.

I'm already heartened to see how readily teenagers are taking to the vaccine. They missed key milestones in their lives over the past year that they'll simply never get back, and they seem to understand the simple relationship that vaccination = eventual return to normal better than many adults.

Now, one big caveat... we don't yet know the safety and efficacy of the vaccines in younger children. Although I have no doubt the same patterns will hold for adults, we first need to complete all the proper steps. We've seen over the past several months that the processes and procedures we follow to ensure effective and safe vaccine development and deployment work exactly as intended. Let's trust that the same process will deliver results for our children as well.

What motivated this long post today? Seeing this picture on my phone again: View attachment 557710
This photo was taken at Storytellers Cafe at the Grand Californian at Disneyland on March 11th, 2020. By this point, the imminent closure of Disneyland had already been announced. The conference that was the reason for me traveling to Disneyland with my family had already been canceled, so we were riding out the remaining days at the parks until they closed. Seeing the look of both recognition and pure joy in my son's eyes, who was not quite 18 months old at the time, as Mickey came to our table has been one of my fondest memories of recently. I want him and other children to be able to return to a world where moments like these are again possible. My son has Down's syndrome, which puts him at a higher vulnerability to COVID-19 and other infectious diseases. He will need these vaccines as soon as he can get them to make up for over a year's time of lost socialization. Unless we have true herd immunity, children with cancer, cystic fibrosis, or other conditions of vulnerability will never know this joy that he was lucky enough to experience just in the nick of time.

We will soon have the means to return to this world. Let's do it!
Aaaaaaaand I’m crying. Thank you for sharing that amazing photo. Hope ur family can enjoy some Disney Magic soon.
 

disneygeek90

Well-Known Member
It's my fly home day from my trip, but from what I saw at OKW and Disney Springs, there were still a lot of people wearing masks (more at OKW, but still maybe 30-40% at Disney Springs). Whether that's because people weren't aware of the change yet or they just chose to continue wearing their masks despite the change is a question I can't answer. Maybe in a few days it will be more clear, but sadly I won't be there to see.
30-40% is where I’d put universal today too.

Outside velocicoaster queue no better than 75%
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Disney can’t worry about people who booked a future vacation based on the protocols in place. They can always cancel and I’m sure they can get a refund. IMHo it is a bit of bad customer service to change on the fly with less than 12 hours notice. People may have gone to bed and not known of the change until they woke up in the morning. Yes, they could go ask for a refund, but that’s not really the point once you are already there.

Flip the shoe to the other foot. If you booked a trip for next month now that masks aren’t required and in the middle of your trip they flipped the rule back to requiring masks overnight. Would you be happy to just ask for a refund? Probably not. I’m not saying Disney shouldn’t change the rules but they could probably at least give a little more advance notice.
Wouldn't that require them to subject their other guests to unnecessary protocols? On the day that guest woke up, another one woke up to the prospect of putting a mask on a 2 year old being pushed outside in a stroller when government mandates no longer required it and other places weren't doing it. What if none of the guests at WDW booked in reliance on the protocols in place but were instead ecstatic that outside masks were no longer required? Making them wear masks based on nothing but the possibility that another guest may have relied on outdated protocols would be bad customer service. I just don't think WDW can act on anything other than objective factors.

As far as your other question, as long as COVID is around I would be prepared that the situation could change as you described and - as long as there was an actual safety purpose for the change - I would accept it. But I'm sure WDW wouldn't subject its other guests to COVID exposure simply because I booked my trip in reliance on no masks.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Wouldn't that require them to subject their other guests to unnecessary protocols? On the day that guest woke up, another one woke up to the prospect of putting a mask on a 2 year old being pushed outside in a stroller when government mandates no longer required it and other places weren't doing it. What if none of the guests at WDW booked in reliance on the protocols in place but were instead ecstatic that outside masks were no longer required? Making them wear masks based on nothing but the possibility that another guest may have relied on outdated protocols would be bad customer service. I just don't think WDW can act on anything other than objective factors.

As far as your other question, as long as COVID is around I would be prepared that the situation could change as you described and - as long as there was an actual safety purpose for the change - I would accept it. But I'm sure WDW wouldn't subject its other guests to COVID exposure simply because I booked my trip in reliance on no masks.
You are totally missing my point. I’m not challenging the change in any way. I just think giving more than 12 hours notice would have been nice for guests already on site. Whether the guest thinks the change is positive or negative isn’t the point.
 
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