Andrew C
You know what's funny?
It's not...not without every state mandating the vaccine for all.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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There's rounding involved. Just 1 significant digit.
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
"Rounding up" also has another connotation.There's rounding involved. Just 1 significant digit.
It's a math joke not a social commentary.
Doesn't everyone remember significant digits from high school? I'm sure everyone has used them since then.
I don't know exactly what you're fishing for.
Are you expecting "Expert X says Y%" and that is the unequivocal goal? Are you expecting any of us to say "Y% is the definite goal"?
Because...
1. You're not going to get that. No one has a definitive goal, especially when you take into account the vaccine hesitant, the mitigation deniers, and a virus that keeps mutating into more contagious variants.
2. It seems you want that specific number so you can start a fight about its validity. Is that your goal with this question?
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Let me weigh in a little because I've done some aviation medicine in my career. Anyone who is involved in the actual flight operations of the aircraft, including pilots, flight attendants, air marshals, some mechanics, and air traffic controllers are required to maintain certain standards of health, with pilots having especially stringent requirements. Auxiliary personnel like baggage handlers, and ticket counter personnel, for example, don't fall under these regulations, though.
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Pfft my kid is in 8th grade and dealing with them in science right now (though they are called sig fig in school where he goes)It's a math joke not a social commentary.
Doesn't everyone remember significant digits from high school? I'm sure everyone has used them since then.
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
I get the joke.It's a math joke not a social commentary.
Doesn't everyone remember significant digits from high school? I'm sure everyone has used them since then.
My pointing out that "rounding up" can be taken another way is also a joke.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
He is doing no such thing! This is just another disingenuous attempt at reframing the conversation. He is comparing his company’s COVID labor issues before and after the mandate. After the mandate the sample pool is all vaccinated (plus a smattering of eligible exceptions). He was simply accurately describing the current state of the pool by using the word vaccinated. Or I might suspect that there *was* a death in the eligible-exception unvaccinated group or a death of an unvaccinated employee whose illness predated the mandate, but for accounting purposes counts as a claim in this 8-week period. Which prevented him from saying that there were “no deaths at all” in the last 8 weeks. All he is saying is the same thing you are: vaccinated people don’t die, or end up in the hospital at the same rate the unvaccinated did before. Is he hyping up the lack of deaths for good PR and a morale boost, of course. Employees dying, hospitalized or out sick is “bad business”.
Nubs70
Well-Known Member
Are baggage handlers even employee of the airline or are they subcontracted to Institutions such as SwissPort?
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I actually re-read the statement and see that he didn't say that no vaccinated employees were hospitalized, just that none are currently hospitalized and the rate of hospitalization is 100x lower than the general population. Then he restates the hospitalization number in a way that makes it looks like none has ever been hospitalized.
Given that this was a communication to employees, what he is doing is basically telling the employees who disagreed with the requirement that he did such a good job and probably saved your life. It's the "nanny state" philosophy on a micro level.
He also talks about all the call outs (1/3 in Newark in one day) that are happening with Omicron despite just about all employees being vaccinated. He doesn't say that United is experiencing fewer call outs or disruptions from Omicron than peer airlines that don't have a vaccine mandate.
In my opinion, the only justifications for a vaccinate or be terminated mandate are either:
1) The unvaccinated employees are a high risk to the vaccinated employees; or
2) Having all employees vaccinated leads to significantly fewer disruptions to the operation.
Since neither appears to be true, the mandate is being done because the CEO (and other upper management) believe everybody should have no choice but to be vaccinated and have the power to make sure that happens for everybody who works for them. Like I said earlier, it's the same thing conceptually as if they had a "quit smoking or be terminated" or "lose weight or be terminated" policy. All cases are to force employees to lower their risk of health issues.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
It depends on the airline and airport. A lot of times the handlers at the hubs are employees but the outstations are subcontracted. It seems that at most airports that are served by a regional partner (small jets/turboprops) only, the ticket and gate agents are also subcontracted.
Do you actually believe it doesn't?
If nothing else, it should lead to less days out for impacted people. How many days less qualifies as significant? 1, 2, 5, 50%, 100% less?
No close contact of a kid with other kids in school? Who are we kidding? He needs to get tested to come back if I were the school staff.
Since not one single company that I have ever heard of has those policies, yours is an invalid argument. You simply cannot state "it is a slippery slope" when you know as well as anyone that those types of policies are never going to happen. The only thing a company can do is force higher insurance rates on those employees. If you know of even one company that terminates employees for smoking or being overweight, please let us know who that is.
sullyinMT
Well-Known Member
A former employer did have a no nicotine (not just smoking) use policy at hire, and I was tested as part of the acceptance. Existing smokers were grandfathered in and not terminated, but the goal was a nicotine-free workforce over time. They also paid a higher premium until they could exhibit that they had quit.
That's acceptable if that is what the company has that as a condition of being hired, but you stated that NO employees are terminated if already smokers, so there is no slippery slope to further terminations. My company states that you must be fully vaccinated and boosted (if eligible) in order to get hired at all. I fully support that policy.
Some around here will never agree, but I think every single person in the U.S. that can get vaccinated, should have been required to do so, and we should have had vaccine passports from day 1 of vaccines being available. There are places that are requiring proof of vaccination to pretty much do anything indoors outside of their house. I fully support this as well. Knowing I don't have to sit next to some dumb idiot that refuses to get vaccinated makes it much less stressful for my family.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
Exactly but this policy is essentially the same thing as those would be and those were never even considered for a millisecond.
You have to consider what percentage were vaccinated anyway before you can try to measure the impact. I think it is less a specific number of days and more comparing cancelled and delayed flights and baggage with and without the policy.
From a thread on an aviation forum two weeks ago, there was a day where United cancelled 9% of the scheduled flights, Delta 6%, JetBlue 5% and American fewer than 1%.
The difference at American wasn't vaccination rate. It was that they offered 300% pay to flight attendants who were off to work and cover the call outs.
Because if I'm fat and smoke, I am not going to give someone a deadly disease. A HUGE difference that you seem to want to ignore. And I know you are all for people getting vaccinated, so exactly why do you have an issue with a company requiring it?
LaughingGravy
Well-Known Member
I applaud all of the above in addition to being done and drawing an imaginary line of any possible sympathy to anyone not willing to adapt to the changing situations of a pandemic in the first place and everything else in the past couple of years ultimately making this drag on and on and ending with a lot of people sick and dead and in debt, , but instead fighting it by the idea of science being a "belief" and that everyone needs to respect their beliefs and rights, as if science is a religion, not "subscribing" to CDC recommendations because...."You said this and then you said something else, so how can we believe anything you say?"
It's the dark ages all over again, except with the speed and efficiency of modern technology and being pushed to a darker point even faster by lowering standards of education including proper critical thinking over a long time in favor of what can easily be called fairy tale based ideas, and I don't just mean the obvious.
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