Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

My GF was really sick for a couple of weeks after returning home from Florida in late January -- we were at Disney for a week, and then she was in Naples with family for a few more days before heading home. She had a really painful sore throat and essentially all the symptoms of strep throat, but two separate strep tests came back negative. We've wondered if maybe she had Covid-19 and hopefully there will be widespread antibody testing available sometime soon just to check.

The antibody testing will definitely be a turning point in all of this to figure out how many people have been infected.

As for your GF, definitely possible she had it. More likely if she was in Naples, Italy than Naples, FL. Even now, testing only suspected cases, Florida is only seeing 9% positive so most likely she had something else.

 

[UNCgolf]

The antibody testing will definitely be a turning point in all of this to figure out how many people have been infected.

As for your GF, definitely possible she had it. More likely if she was in Naples, Italy than Naples, FL. Even now, testing only suspected cases, Florida is only seeing 9% positive so most likely she had something else.

Oh I'm sure she didn't get it in Naples. If she did, it was either from Disney World or just being in airports.

I don't think it was Covid-19, but her doctor was baffled by how she could have every symptom of strep throat for a couple of weeks (she also had a loss of taste/smell) without actually having strep.

 

[DisneyCane]

Oh I'm sure she didn't get it in Naples. If she did, it was either from Disney World or just being in airports.

I don't think it was Covid-19, but her doctor was baffled by how she could have every symptom of strep throat for a couple of weeks (she also had a loss of taste/smell) without actually having strep.

Hopefully she'll know soon if they roll out the antibody testing.

Funny thing with strep throat. When I was a kid every time I had a sore throat my pediatrician tested and I always had strep. Same for all my friends that went to the same doctor. Our parents started to notice that when he was on vacation and the kids went to an alternate pediatrician with a sore throat it was never positive for strep. They figured out that he was just saying they were positive to be able to charge for the follow up test to make sure it was gone (which it always was).

 

[UNCgolf]

Hopefully she'll know soon if they roll out the antibody testing.

Funny thing with strep throat. When I was a kid every time I had a sore throat my pediatrician tested and I always had strep. Same for all my friends that went to the same doctor. Our parents started to notice that when he was on vacation and the kids went to an alternate pediatrician with a sore throat it was never positive for strep. They figured out that he was just saying they were positive to be able to charge for the follow up test to make sure it was gone (which it always was).

That's a good story. She actually had her strep tests at two different places (her doctor was closed so she went to a walk-in clinic, and then when she wasn't better a week later she went to her normal doctor) so no funny business there!

I had strep throat several times as a kid to the point that an ENT specialist said if I had it again they were going to need to remove my tonsils. Apparently that's all my immune system needed to hear. Still have my tonsils and I haven't had strep throat since that doctor's visit 25-30 years ago.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I know I know "second hand source blah blah blah" but a radio talk show host who is friends with a doctor... Has stated that his doctor friend told him that there are many more cases and patients in the hospital than the numbers being posted to the public. (Which would make sense, as all of my nursing friends have seemed to be talking about nothing but COVID19 patients).

IMPORTANT: Also in this podcast, ADVIL makes the symptoms 10X WORSE, according to the doctor. It rocket boosts the virus. Articles are saying "experts say it is unfounded..." But the doctor said that all severe patience had taken advil. Use this information as you will... But I'm just saying. Better safe than SORRY.

I cant find the direct one but it was from a podcast called Garage Logic.

Who in their right mind is taking health advice from social media? Yeah, I know, a lot are.

But that is a very, very, very, very dumb thing to do.

Please, everyone, just go to your state health website for local information. And go to CDC or WHO site for the most up to date medical information.

If your choice of news reporting isn't quoting these sources, turn them off and never go back to them. They are dangerous to your health. Seriously, any social media whether it is a Twitter account, a Facebook repost of some article, a pod cast, a website, a broadcast news channel... if they're not quoting the CDC and actual state health agencies, turn them off (unsubscribe, unfriend, block) and never go back to them again. They're not only not worth it, they can cause you more harm than good.

You're not going to find the CDC telling you to stop taking Advil (Ibuprofen).

And, under a better safe than sorry doctrine. WHO recommended not taking Ibuprofen for a hot minute because of one French doctor's claim, but has since dropped their don't-take recommendation:

 

[Josh Hendy]

More on the hydroxychloroquin trial. I found a link to the actual published study. It looks legit. It agrees with results he saw in a previous, smaller trial. Here is the abstract.

In 80 in-patients receiving a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin we noted a clinical improvement in all but one 86 year-old patient who died, and one 74 year-old patient still in intensive care unit. A rapid fall of nasopharyngeal viral load tested by qPCR was noted, with 83% negative at Day7, and 93% at Day8. Virus cultures from patient respiratory samples were negative in 97.5% patients at Day5. This allowed patients to rapidly de discharge from highly contagious wards with a mean length of stay of five days. We believe other teams should urgently evaluate this cost-effective therapeutic strategy, to both avoid the spread of the disease and treat patients as soon as possible before severe respiratory irreversible complications take hold.

Here is the published study (pdf):

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

 

[easyrowrdw]

If what’s happening in the world of higher education is anything to go by, I think it’s safe to assume that schools at all levels are not going to resume for the rest of the academic year. I know that’s sad, but it’s a reality one must face.

Higher ed is different, I think. They have to house many of the students from all around the country or world. Once they send them away, it's very difficult to just bring them back. Elementary-High School is local. If they started back next week, kids could be there.

Our district has been incremental in closing. We're at almost the end of April right now. That would be a solid 7 weeks of distancing, 5 or 6 of having non-essential businesses closed, and a month of "stay home" orders. I could see the schools reopening at that point. But after being closed for so long, I'm not expecting it.

 

[MisterPenguin]

In slowing the spread of a contagion, how effective is social distancing? Stopping travel? Limiting access to 'hubs' (like a supermarket)? Testing and isolating the infected?

An excellent primer on modeling the answers to these questions (as far a models model reality)....



And if you love the math of models and want to play with your own graphs...

 

[MisterPenguin]

More on the hydroxychloroquin trial. I found a link to the actual published study. It looks legit. It agrees with results he saw in a previous, smaller trial. Here is the abstract.


Here is the published study (pdf):

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

A doctor with a shaky reputation checks his own work and finds it's spot on!!

Um... let's have someone else run a study before calling it effective.

 

[UNCgolf]

More on the hydroxychloroquin trial. I found a link to the actual published study. It looks legit. It agrees with results he saw in a previous, smaller trial. Here is the abstract.


Here is the published study (pdf):

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID-IHU-2-1.pdf

Based on what I read earlier, he constantly publishes things in that specific journal because it's run by one of his co-workers. His first trial was also incredibly faulty for numerous reasons (he removed certain patients from the data after the fact, the patients were in different locations, etc.) and other scientists said it was essentially trash. Makes it really hard to trust this new one.

We'll see what happens when other doctors/scientists look at it, but I wouldn't get my hopes up yet. That's probably why we can't find it reported anywhere else -- it seems like most experts don't really take him seriously.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Who in their right mind is taking health advice from social media? Yeah, I know, a lot are.

But that is a very, very, very, very dumb thing to do.

Please, everyone, just go to your state health website for local information. And go to CDC or WHO site for the most up to date medical information.

If your choice of news reporting isn't quoting these sources, turn them off and never go back to them. They are dangerous to your health. Seriously, any social media whether it is a Twitter account, a Facebook repost of some article, a pod cast, a website, a broadcast news channel... if they're not quoting the CDC and actual state health agencies, turn them off (unsubscribe, unfriend, block) and never go back to them again. They're not only not worth it, they can cause you more harm than good.

You're not going to find the CDC telling you to stop taking Advil (Ibuprofen).

And, under a better safe than sorry doctrine. WHO recommended not taking Ibuprofen for a hot minute because of one French doctor's claim, but has since dropped their don't-take recommendation:

The CDC also tells healthcare professionals to wear bandanas if they don't have the proper masks.

The ibuprofen thing isn't just social media gossip. It's speculative, but it's not random and it's coming from healthcare people. One of them lives in my house and Corona is on their minds all the time. They're trying to figure out anything they can to keep it away.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The CDC also tells healthcare professionals to wear bandanas if they don't have the proper masks.

The ibuprofen thing isn't just social media gossip. It's not speculative, but it's not random and it's coming from healthcare people. One of them lives in my house and Corona is on their minds all the time. They're trying to figure out anything they can to keep it away.

A make shift mask is better than no mask if it's to protect the patient.

The ibuprofen thing is from one person and that one person lives your house?? Or is it someone else with anecdotes?

 

[LittleBuford]

Higher ed is different, I think. They have to house many of the students from all around the country or world. Once they send them away, it's very difficult to just bring them back. Elementary-High School is local. If they started back next week, kids could be there.

Our district has been incremental in closing. We're at almost the end of April right now. That would be a solid 7 weeks of distancing, 5 or 6 of having non-essential businesses closed, and a month of "stay home" orders. I could see the schools reopening at that point. But after being closed for so long, I'm not expecting it.

That's a fair distinction to make. Still, it seems we agree that the school closures are likely to last till the summer all things considered.

 

[21stamps]

If anyone was wondering how the Casino business was doing, here’s a portion of an email I received from Penn National. Mass layoffs apparently, but they did pay their employees full wages thru March 31. CEO and other corporate leadership positions will take pay cuts, many corporate positions will be furloughed.

No word from the Seminoles in my inbox. I think they were the last casinos to finally close. Penn was at least a week prior.

 

[easyrowrdw]

A make shift mask is better than no mask if it's to protect the patient.

The ibuprofen thing is from one person and that one person lives your house?? Or is it someone else with anecdotes?

When it comes to Corona I think the issue is protecting the healthcare workers from an infected patient. A bandana won't do that. N95 masks aren't needed most of the time because a regular mask protects the patient just fine. But in certain situations (TB, Corona) the healthcare worker needs additional protection from the patient.

The ibuprofen thing is from multiple healthcare workers and researchers. I don't know the science, but it relates to lung inflammation, which I guess happens with Corona. Evidently it was thought that this can be exacerbated by ibuprofen. Mrs. Rowrbazzle is the one that told me about it. It's been a topic of conversation at her hospital. It may turn out to be unfounded after further study, but it's not just random gossip.

 

[MisterPenguin]

When it comes to Corona I think the issue is protecting the healthcare workers from an infected patient. A bandana won't do that. N95 masks aren't needed most of the time because a regular mask protects the patient just fine. But in certain situations (TB, Corona) the healthcare worker needs additional protection from the patient.

The ibuprofen thing is from multiple healthcare workers and researchers. I don't know the science, but it relates to lung inflammation, which I guess happens with Corona. Evidently it was thought that this can be exacerbated by ibuprofen. Mrs. Rowrbazzle is the one that told me about it. It's been a topic of conversation at her hospital. It may turn out to be unfounded after further study, but it's not just random gossip.

Yes, if you're looking to protect the healthcare worker from CV, a bandana won't cut it. But neither would a regular cloth or paper mask. Those lower grade masks are to protect the patient. It's the kind surgeons mostly wear.

But if it's to replace a regular mask, a bandana is better than nothing.

I don't know which is the case for the CDC recommendation you mention.

What Mrs. Rowrbazzle and comrades are talking about are the claims of that one doctor, which WHO did respond to with abundance of caution. And because WHO initially put out a warning, it spread through social media like... a virus.

Since WHO has withdrawn it's warning, I'm guessing that there's no epidemiological study to back up those claims. As usual, the follow-up to an alarming story that says it wasn't a problem after all doesn't get the clicks that "Advil will kill you" does. Please show Mrs. R. the above quoted Tweet from WHO.

 

[Josh Hendy]

Based on what I read earlier, he constantly publishes things in that specific journal because it's run by one of his co-workers. His first trial was also incredibly faulty for numerous reasons (he removed certain patients from the data after the fact, the patients were in different locations, etc.) and other scientists said it was essentially trash ... it seems like most experts don't really take him seriously.

Absolutely, the results should be taken with caution until confirmed with further research.

The selection of patients in the new study is explained in the PDF ... if you care to read it.

Not sure where you read that most researchers don't take him seriously. If his rep is so bad maybe you should log onto to wikipedia and delete this part of his bio then And please add citations.

"According to the Thomson Reuters source "Highly Cited Researchers List", Didier Raoult is among the most influential researchers in his field and his publications are among the 1% most consulted in academic journals. He is one of the 99 most cited microbiologists in the world and one of the 73 most highly cited French scientists.[14] He is a world reference for Q fever and Whipple's disease.[15] In April 2017, on Google Scholar citations,[16] he cumulated over 104,000 citations and an h index of 148. He is also on the list of the 400 most cited authors in the biomedical world.[17] ... He totalizes more than 2,300 indexed publications including 8 in Science, and 3 in Nature, the two most visible scientific journals according to the N&S index of Shanghai's ranking.[19]"

I wonder did he write a fake wiki bio, or did he bribe Science and Nature to hire his friends to accept his papers?

In spite of his reputation as "trash" it seems that lots more trials have been launched. Given the time frame of the disease and the alleged cure, I expect that more results will start to be publicized very soon.

 

[THE 1HAPPY HAUNT]

Anyone know how many boarding groups Rise of the Resistance got up to today?

 

[UNCgolf]

Absolutely, the results should be taken with caution until confirmed with further research.

The selection of patients in the new study is explained in the PDF ... if you care to read it.

Not sure where you read that most researchers don't take him seriously. If his rep is so bad maybe you should log onto to wikipedia and delete this part of his bio then And please add citations.

"According to the Thomson Reuters source "Highly Cited Researchers List", Didier Raoult is among the most influential researchers in his field and his publications are among the 1% most consulted in academic journals. He is one of the 99 most cited microbiologists in the world and one of the 73 most highly cited French scientists.[14] He is a world reference for Q fever and Whipple's disease.[15] In April 2017, on Google Scholar citations,[16] he cumulated over 104,000 citations and an h index of 148. He is also on the list of the 400 most cited authors in the biomedical world.[17] ... He totalizes more than 2,300 indexed publications including 8 in Science, and 3 in Nature, the two most visible scientific journals according to the N&S index of Shanghai's ranking.[19]"

I wonder did he write a fake wiki bio, or did he bribe Science and Nature to hire his friends to accept his papers?

In spite of his reputation as "trash" it seems that lots more trials have been launched. Given the time frame of the disease and the alleged cure, I expect that more results will start to be publicized very soon.

Based on the article below, it seems like the reason he's highly cited is because his name gets included on every paper produced by anyone working in his lab. It also breaks down just how poor the original study was.

Chloroquine genius Didier Raoult to save the world from COVID-19

As COVID19 pandemic rages on, French microbiologist Didier Raoult offers a cure. President Trump is convinced, but is Raoult’s research reliable, here and in general?

forbetterscience.com

All I'm saying is I wouldn't get your hopes up yet. He's the only person reporting these results and he has a history of bad science. That doesn't mean it's wrong, but until actual scientific clinical studies are run, we don't really know (and there are other doctors/scientists saying chloroquine does nothing). It would be great if this is true, though!

 

[easyrowrdw]

Yes, if you're looking to protect the healthcare worker from CV, a bandana won't cut it. But neither would a regular cloth or paper mask. Those lower grade masks are to protect the patient. It's the kind surgeons mostly wear.

But if it's to replace a regular mask, a bandana is better than nothing.

I don't know which is the case for the CDC recommendation you mention.

What Mrs. Rowrbazzle and comrades are talking about are the claims of that one doctor, which WHO did respond to with abundance of caution. And because WHO initially put out a warning, it spread through social media like... a virus.

Since WHO has withdrawn it's warning, I'm guessing that there's no epidemiological study to back up those claims. As usual, the follow-up to an alarming story that says it wasn't a problem after all doesn't get the clicks that "Advil will kill you" does. Please show Mrs. R. the above quoted Tweet from WHO.

My point about the masks is that the CDC is not infallible. Better than nothing is hardly a standard worth touting.

On the ibuprofen, she understands that it was speculative (I mistyped original post but you'd quoted before it was edited). But it was based on a reasonable hypothesis, not social media gossip. As I said, they're trying to figure out anything to help mitigate the risk of catching the virus. Hopefully they find something.