Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Andrew C]

Both kids and adults I run into mostly wear masks and mostly correctly in my area. To set a perspective of what I tend to see. Lots of paper and KN95 type these days too.

However, I don't think I've ever noticed someone wearing an N95 that looked like it was tight enough to give a real certified seal and was also using head loops instead of ear loops.

If we're going to pretend that people are wearing N95 masks that aren't just "better" than the cloth masks or gapping paper masks, but that are actually working at an N95 level of protection, we're definitely going to be pretending and living in a fantasy.

There's a reason that actual doctors and nurses who are wearing actual fit tested and sized N95 masks with head straps and not ear loops always show clear signs on their face when removing them from how they were sealed against the face.

Nobody walking around is actually wearing a mask that fits like that.

Which means, there's still a large component of the mask acting as source control. Just because people are wearing better self protection doesn't mean we should just throw away the source control component.

People wearing an N95 improperly doesn't negate the fact that paper and cloth masks are pretty much worthless against this variant, and likely future variants. So lets end the theater.

 

[drizgirl]

That’s your choice as we all have choices.
Masks never bothered me . Now or 2 years ago so it’s not a big deal for myself. Put it on, take it off. Takes less then 10 seconds. The amount of time I’m in a store or other place that requires it I don’t even realize I have it on. But whatever.

And I'm sure you know it's different for others. It's been a big issue for my daughter's acne. And even with a KN-95, the fogging is a huge issue with my glasses.

Wore one for 3 hours to see a touring Broadway show on Sunday. Happy everyone around me was wearing a mask given the current conditions and being in close proximity for so long, but can't wait to be done with them. And mostly happy to get to make my own decisions about when and where to wear them in many other places.

 

[Andrew C]

With omicron, you need a mask that means business

To block a variant this transmissible, scientists say you need an N95 or other high-filtration mask. Here's how to find a good one and when to wear it.

www.npr.org

Some face masks are more protective than others—here are the types you should avoid

There are some face masks you should avoid—valved masks, masks with gaps or poorly fitted ones, to name a few. Here's what to buy instead.

www.usatoday.com

'No role for cloth masks anymore': Experts say Omicron too transmissible for lackluster masks

Two years into the pandemic, it is a lot easier to get your hands on a quality face mask than it was in 2020. N95's are now not only available to hospital workers, but the federal government has sent out 400 million to pharmacies and community health centers nationwide for everyone to be protected.

www.fox17online.com

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/why-you-should-upgrade-your-face-mask-to-an-n95.html

Free N95 masks are arriving at pharmacies and grocery stores. Here's how to get yours

Some retailers are starting to get the first wave of the 400 million free masks being distributed by the federal government. Every person is allowed to receive up to three masks.

www.npr.org

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/01/25/schools-safely-make-masks-optional-new-cdc-guidelines/

 

[Andrew C]

So you ok with some with no mask coughing and sneezing in your direction and your family in a crowded setting ( ie elevator, public transportation )?

As much as I was before the pandemic, yes. I am vaccinated and cloth mask isn't going to up that protection. Also, my personal (and family) risk assessment is low where I do not feel the need to wear an N95.

 

[mmascari]

And even with a KN-95, the fogging is a huge issue with my glasses.

If it's fogging, it's not sealed to your face.

. It does mean it doesn't have a good seal though. That doesn't mean it's providing no protection at all though, just less protection than if it was tightly sealed. Still more than nothing. The exact amount of diverted airflow would impact how much the reduction is.

That reduction may also be different for it's self protection and protection it's providing others. Since the nature of the air leak is different for inhale and exhale.

 

[drizgirl]

If it's fogging, it's not sealed to your face.

It does mean it doesn't have a good seal though. That doesn't mean it's providing no protection at all though, just less protection than if it was tightly sealed. Still more than nothing. The exact amount of diverted airflow would impact how much the reduction is.

That reduction may also be different for it's self protection and protection it's providing others. Since the nature of the air leak is different for inhale and exhale.

I'm aware. I have yet to be able to get any of the masks I use (up to and including KN-95s with a nose bridge) to seal enough to stop fogging for very long. Hence, my mention of the adjusting.

The truth is I'm never going to be able to pop a mask on and off with no fogging without a lot of fiddling and adjusting. Which was sort of my point in addressing the PP who says it isn't a big deal. Is adjusting a mask a big deal? No, but it's an annoying PITA.

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm aware. I have yet to be able to get any of the masks I use (up to and including KN-95s with a nose bridge) to seal enough to stop fogging for very long. Hence, my mention of the adjusting.

The truth is I'm never going to be able to pop a mask on and off with no fogging without a lot of fiddling and adjusting. Which was sort of my point in addressing the PP who says it isn't a big deal. Is adjusting a mask a big deal? No, but it's an annoying PITA.

I’ve also had the fogging issue with pretty much every N95 and KN95 mask I’ve tried. The one exception, which I wore on my flight back from the UK, was a 3M Aura—no fogging whatsoever, to my amazement.

 

[Andrew C]

Going to share a bit of an anecdotal story I recently shared with someone else...

My third grader has been able to have a completely normal school year. In our district....no masks are required, no social distancing, no case tracking, no isolation requirements or test taking. It has been just like prior to the pandemic; stay home when sick, come to school when you feel. Everything else is your business.

And you know what this has resulted in? Attendance levels that match pre-pandemic levels. No issues.

I know this probably terrifies some but it shouldn't. The district feels that this type of environment is the best way to make up for the lost time we all experienced in 2020. Put the kids education first, at the front line. And I am so thankful that my child has been given this opportunity. So when some wonder why I get so angry or passionate about this topic, it is because I would like other children to have this same opportunity (or at least attempt to allow them to have this opportunity). It is important.

 

[Andrew C]

You specifically said that anyone that wanted could wear an N95 and all the rest was just theater. Along with that wearing it wrong was on the wearer.

Pretty sure I said cloth and paper masks with this current variant is theater and improperly wearing an N95 doesn't negate that theater of cloth and paper masks.

 

[correcaminos]

And I'm sure you know it's different for others. It's been a big issue for my daughter's acne. And even with a KN-95, the fogging is a huge issue with my glasses.

Wore one for 3 hours to see a touring Broadway show on Sunday. Happy everyone around me was wearing a mask given the current conditions and being in close proximity for so long, but can't wait to be done with them. And mostly happy to get to make my own decisions about when and where to wear them in many other places.

I find if I have a surgical mask on that is tied and the glasses dropped just a hair below where the mask is on the nose, the fogging goes away.

Maskne is a real issue for teens. We struggled and eventually went to a stronger acne regimine. Has helped. Definitely did improve this summer.

Like you I look forward to removing again. Though no joke I plan outdoors in winter for a while. Totally beat my scarves and with hats that cover my ears tight fit isn't as required lol.

 

[mmascari]

I'm aware. I have yet to be able to get any of the masks I use (up to and including KN-95s with a nose bridge) to seal enough to stop fogging for very long. Hence, my mention of the adjusting.

The truth is I'm never going to be able to pop a mask on and off with no fogging without a lot of fiddling and adjusting. Which was sort of my point in addressing the PP who says it isn't a big deal. Is adjusting a mask a big deal? No, but it's an annoying PITA.

Sorry, I wasn't picking on you. It was just a good example.

I rarely if ever see anyone with head loops on a mask. Without them, it's amazingly hard to get a seal that would prevent fogging. If you have a seal that does prevent fogging, it's probably not very comfortable too, since it's pressing firmer into your face to create that seal.

There's a reason they keep saying "Wear the best mask you're comfortable wearing for the time you need to wear it". For most people, a super tight and uncomfortable mask is one they're likely to take off and not wear at the first chance. Wearing something that's more comfortable while not providing as good a protective value, provides significantly more value than nothing. Which is what happens when you're not wearing it because it's uncomfortable.

It's not a yes/no on protection, it's a spectrum of reduction. Getting the largest reduction someone can tolerate is very reasonable. It's not like we're all working on the COVID ward with very increased levels of virus floating around. Then again, the ventilation at some workplaces is so bad, some people may have the same risk.

 

[LittleBuford]

You quite literally did.

You specifically said that anyone that wanted could wear an N95 and all the rest was just theater. Along with that wearing it wrong was on the wearer.

Well, a properly worn N95 doesn't leak and fog glasses. Hence, this must have been theater. If it's just theater, that implies that it's doing nothing at all.

So which is it? Does wearing a mask provide some level of reduction, with the exact level dependent on the type and fit of the mask? With a properly worn N95 at one end and a poorly fitting cloth mask at the other? Or, is everything that's not the properly fit N94 just trash?

Otherwise, what we have here is a communication failure.

I agree that any mask is better than no mask, but I also think there should be widespread encouragement for people to switch to N95s and (reliable) KN95s.

 

[mmascari]

And you know what this has resulted in? Attendance levels that match pre-pandemic levels. No issues.

Do you live somewhere where community spread is somehow low overall?

I know this probably terrifies some but it shouldn't.

The reverse, it sounds wonderful. I would love to live somewhere where spread was so low that there were not any impacts going on.

 

[drizgirl]

I find if I have a surgical mask on that is tied and the glasses dropped just a hair below where the mask is on the nose, the fogging goes away.

Maskne is a real issue for teens. We struggled and eventually went to a stronger acne regimine. Has helped. Definitely did improve this summer.

Like you I look forward to removing again. Though no joke I plan outdoors in winter for a while. Totally beat my scarves and with hats that cover my ears tight fit isn't as required lol.

My daughter was only using OTC acne treatments and doing great leading up to the pandemic. She is now maxed out on what they can do without moving on to Accutane. Which she might still end up needing, but is just a logistical nightmare with the required in person visits every 30 days with her away at school.

 

[drizgirl]

Sorry, I wasn't picking on you. It was just a good example.

I rarely if ever see anyone with head loops on a mask. Without them, it's amazingly hard to get a seal that would prevent fogging. If you have a seal that does prevent fogging, it's probably not very comfortable too, since it's pressing firmer into your face to create that seal.

There's a reason they keep saying "Wear the best mask you're comfortable wearing for the time you need to wear it". For most people, a super tight and uncomfortable mask is one they're likely to take off and not wear at the first chance. Wearing something that's more comfortable while not providing as good a protective value, provides significantly more value than nothing. Which is what happens when you're not wearing it because it's uncomfortable.

It's not a yes/no on protection, it's a spectrum of reduction. Getting the largest reduction someone can tolerate is very reasonable. It's not like we're all working on the COVID ward with very increased levels of virus floating around. Then again, the ventilation at some workplaces is so bad, some people may have the same risk.

I get all of that.

I just get really annoyed with the "It works great for me, it shouldn't be a big deal to anyone else" posts.

 

[correcaminos]

I agree that any mask is better than no mask, but I also think there should be widespread encouragement for people to switch to N95s and (reliable) KN95s.

If you can find one that fits kid sized faces I'd switch. There is a serious problem finding legit ones that fit for smaller faces. Why I'm not bothering with free ones.

 

[correcaminos]

My daughter was only using OTC acne treatments and doing great leading up to the pandemic. She is now maxed out on what they can do without moving on to Accutane. Which she might still end up needing, but is just a logistical nightmare with the required in person visits every 30 days with her away at school.

I gotcha and we're there too though we are fortunate enough that the OTC was enough to be okay. Skin isn't clear by any stretch but it's livable. My kid is 14 though so not rushing to do prescription. It's been a struggle though.

 

[LittleBuford]

If you can find one that fits kid sized faces I'd switch. There is a serious problem finding legit ones that fit for smaller faces. Why I'm not bothering with free ones.

Unless I’m mistaken, there are no child-sized N95s anyway. You would have to look into child-sized KN95s, of which there are quite a few options, though it’s important with any KN95 (regardless of size) to check that it’s been independently tested for performance (some brands don’t offer the >95% filtration they’re supposed to).

 

[Andrew C]

Do you live somewhere where community spread is somehow low overall?


The reverse, it sounds wonderful. I would love to live somewhere where spread was so low that there were not any impacts going on.

No, not low. On par with the rest of the state.

The problem is that one automatically assumes you must have low spread in order to make this work. That just isn't the case. Especially today with the current variant. As an another example, there are many other countries who made it through significant spread multiple times and never masked children in schools.

 

[mmascari]

I agree that any mask is better than no mask, but I also think there should be widespread encouragement for people to switch to N95s and (reliable) KN95s.

True. And I know personally, we've moved up our use and stopped with the cloth ones mostly.

The paper and better masks didn't really fit my younger kid, so they would wear a cloth mask over a paper one to create a better fit. But, recently, they got some KN95 from school and we were able to get some from WellBefore that were smaller.

Comparatively, my older kid doesn't like the KN95 but is fine with the paper masks all day. They're sticking with those, as a properly worn paper mask is going to provide a better reduction than a KN95 that's not worn or pulled down.

With my huge head, I've moved from cloth to paper that fit tight for most stuff, and to a KN95 for things with larger risk/increased exposure. Matching the level of reduction to the risk type and length of exposure.