Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Lilofan]

Being unvaccinated increases your risk of hospitalization by 1076% (this is using my states data from Nov 2020)

Being unvaccinated increases your risk of dying from Covid by 1250%

All of you touting obesity as the cause of all of this because it increases your risk of hospitalization by 45-30% (numbers I saw quoted here, I have not verified them) are as the saying goes “****ing in the wind.”

Obesity is not the primary reason we are in trouble

Unvax/antivax is what I hear and see on a too often. My former coworker who stated she did not want to get vaccinated takes care of her husband who is on oxygen 24/7 who is immunocompromised . She contacted covid last month , was hospitalized for a week and is recovering at home. Now her husband is in the ICU fighting for his life after contacting covid. Sad stories all the way around.

 

[Patcheslee]

Unvax/antivax is what I hear and see on a too often. My former coworker who stated she did not want to get vaccinated takes care of her husband who is on oxygen 24/7 who is immunocompromised . She contacted covid last month , was hospitalized for a week and is recovering at home. Now her husband is in the ICU fighting for his life after contacting covid. Sad stories all the way around.

Mom & stepdad both had breakthrough infections in October before the boosters were available. Given their ages they were past due if they had been released sooner. Both still dealing with health problems doctor said was essentially sped up or made worse by the infection.

 

[seascape]

Trying to be optimistic on Covid only comes back to kick you in the butt. NY went up to 353 per 100k and the daily number broke the 7 day average. NJ went up to 348 and the daily number was also above the 7 day average. Florida increased to 271 and the US as a whole went to 176. This is by far the worst numbers we have ever had. Yes, it is great that Covid19 is not as deadly now but the numbers are terrible.

 

[DisneyCane]

830k+ dead in less than 2 years vs. Under 31k. Your opinion is meaningless.

My opinion isn't meaningless. 38,241,957 vs. 333,934,783 (estimates from worldometers.info). While the great and amazing Canada does have 3.2 times less COVID deaths per capita, it is nowhere near zero and has taken many areas living under mitigation measures for almost two years to achieve that. There are also other variables at play like population density, travel restrictions, etc.

I'm not exactly sure how posting FACTS which are posted on the official Ontario, Canada web page constitutes an "opinion," let alone a "meaningless" one. Maybe being from the USA, my education didn't teach me the definition of fact and opinion properly?

 

[DisneyCane]

I don't think you can draw the conclusion you want to draw from this chart. In order to see the impact of restrictions, you would have to overlay the case loads these 3 groups in a no restriction situation and compare the slope of the lines and the scale on the left axis. Convenient for you, we only get one shot and so the alternate scenario data isn't available for comparison.

As to why the rate of vaccinated cases are rising faster than unvaccinated...

We know the vaccines are less effective vs Omicron. Breakthrough Omicron > Breakthrough Delta. The vaccinated and partially vaccinated group was doing fairly well in early December against Delta, but around December 15th something changed. Presumably, the impact of Omicron. For the unvaccinated group, it appears that Omicron did not change their level of protection Delta vs Omicron, the slope at this point of the purple line did not change. The other part, I suspect is still behavioral. This is why the slope changed for all three groups at basically the same time around Dec 22nd. Even careful people got together with their friends & family for the holidays. I assume careful people are more likely to be 'fully vaccinated with no previous infection,' so they were more at risk for infection than at anytime after they had been vaccinated and bad for them, Omicron also attended the gathering. For a lot of people their "risk" profile changed significantly during that week unlike for the unvaccinated or even partially vaxxed who presumably stopped being careful a long time ago. If Omicron had hit in January, after people visited the family and the careful went back into hibernation... when even people-loving folks are willing to take the time to be a temporary homebody after gathering overload, I wonder what the slopes would look like.

All this chart really shows, IMO, is what we already know. Omicron is more infectious and vaccine-immunity evasive than other variants. You'd be better off making the case that infection-immunity is better* than vaccine-immunity at least against Omicron. However, the implication is that in order to disrupt Omicron infections you would need to do MORE than what was done before to see the same impact. Is anywhere doing more?

* Only talking infection protection. Once we add in "damage while infected" obviously vaccines have a huge advantage. I'm not sure how many people wouldn't trade a little less protection against a future variant to avoid hospitalization, death, potentially long-COVID for past and future variants.

My conclusion wasn't that restrictions don't work (while they are in place). My point was that a place which has "done the right thing" according to what many consider "the right thing" still ended up with rampant spread of Omicron. It may not be quite as rampant as some places in the US, but it is still rampant and now they are essentially going into something of a lockdown again almost two years after COVID appeared.

Even with vaccine passports, very high vaccination rate and the all-important indoor masking a variant came along that is essentially unaffected by any of those "common sense" measures that were supposed to allow restriction-free life.

It is the same reason that I was against the lockdowns from day 1. All you end up with is a lockdown-open-lockdown-open cycle because the virus isn't eradicated by the lockdown so it just starts spreading again once the reopening happens. The 300 million worldwide "cases" and countless more undocumented infections started with a single "patient zero" so it doesn't matter how low you get the community spread, there will always be another "patient zero."

The core point is that we humans need to accept that there are things that we don't have much control over. Actions that we take can have some effect but the virus vs. host battle has been going on for possibly a few billion years. The only way we (the hosts) can win a battle or war against a virus is to fight on a microbiological level. The only synthetic weapon in that war is vaccines but one does not exist that can annihilate the enemy at this point. All we have are vaccines which fortify our defenses so we have fewer casualties.

Every hospitalization and death is not the fault of some politician or another who "should have done this" or "shouldn't have opened that." They are the fault of an unintelligent submicroscopic infectious agent.

 

[DisneyCane]

Trying to be optimistic on Covid only comes back to kick you in the butt. NY went up to 353 per 100k and the daily number broke the 7 day average. NJ went up to 348 and the daily number was also above the 7 day average. Florida increased to 271 and the US as a whole went to 176. This is by far the worst numbers we have ever had. Yes, it is great that Covid19 is not as deadly now but the numbers are terrible.

Remember the "good old days" when NY and NJ had isolation requirements if you came from a state that was over 10 per 100k?

When you consider the testing capacity issues and people with very mild symptoms or no symptoms who aren't even trying to get tested, the infection numbers are likely much higher and could be in the 1,000 per 100k range in some places. The good news is that would mean the Omicron variant is even less severe than it looks based on the known cases.

 

[mkt]

My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and a few family members went to WDW for 3 days over the New Year's holiday, returning home on the 1st of January.

They're back home now, and more than half of their party just tested positive for covid today. They are all vaxxed+boosted, were double masking the entire time at the parks (other than while eating/drinking and posing for photos outdoors), and would tell people in the parks to back up if they got too close for comfort. They even wore real NIOS N95s for their flights.

This is serious.

 

[mkt]

And yet some people act like even doing that much is too hard. Weird, isn't it?

Some people just want to be contrarian, no matter what the issue is, even to the point of contradiction.

We get it, you're a special individual.

 

[Nubs70]

My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and a few family members went to WDW for 3 days over the New Year's holiday, returning home on the 1st of January.

They're back home now, and more than half of their party just tested positive for covid today. They are all vaxxed+boosted, were double masking the entire time at the parks (other than while eating/drinking and posing for photos outdoors), and would tell people in the parks to back up if they got too close for comfort. They even wore real NIOS N95s for their flights.

This **** is serious.

The vaccine is both safe and effective. They will be fine.

 

[mkt]

The vaccine is both safe and effective. They will be fine.

I know. It just es me off.

 

[Lilofan]

I know. It just ****es me off.

Yes that is frustrating , doing the right things but some still testing positive. Hope the effects are quick for your family and it is a really good thing you all are vaxxed.

 

[correcaminos]

My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and a few family members went to WDW for 3 days over the New Year's holiday, returning home on the 1st of January.

They're back home now, and more than half of their party just tested positive for covid today. They are all vaxxed+boosted, were double masking the entire time at the parks (other than while eating/drinking and posing for photos outdoors), and would tell people in the parks to back up if they got too close for comfort. They even wore real NIOS N95s for their flights.

This **** is serious.

Eating and drinking is an issue. I hope they'll be fine. I know omicron can get through boosters even, but still safer than if not vaccinated.

 

[mkt]

Eating and drinking is an issue. I hope they'll be fine. I know omicron can get through boosters even, but still safer than if not vaccinated.

Beyond that, on the other in-laws we had a covid death due to their reluctance to take even basic precautions to avoid getting sick. They were otherwise healthy and fit, but refused the vaccine, refused to mask, refused to distance, and went to bars and restaurants. Covid got one of them about 40 days ago, and it was a very slow and painful death.

Hopefully this encourages the others in the family to get the vaccine and take some basic precautions.

 

[Incomudro]

Like get vaccinated


Eating and drinking is an issue. I hope they'll be fine. I know omicron can get through boosters even, but still safer than if not vaccinated.

It's foolish to not get vaccinated.

 

[Nubs70]

I know. It just ****es me off.

Given the description, it appears to be Omicron. If so, they will be better off for it.

Should the WDW NYE events be classified as a super spreader event?

If a super spreader event, should accountability be personal for attending, corporate for holding , or governmental for allowing?

 

[Chomama]

Given the description, it appears to be Omicron. If so, they will be better off for it.

Should the WDW NYE events be classified as a super spreader event?

If a super spreader event, should accountability be personal for attending, corporate for holding , or governmental for allowing?

I know upwards of 30 vaccinated people who got Covid at Disney last week. I know of
Zero over the last two years. Anecdotal of course but omicron is just that contagious. We take a risk going to a crowded place. At this point I don’t think we hold others responsible for our choices. If you are in a public space you need to assume you are being exposed to omicron. Period. It sucks but this too shall pass

 

[LittleBuford]

My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and a few family members went to WDW for 3 days over the New Year's holiday, returning home on the 1st of January.

They're back home now, and more than half of their party just tested positive for covid today. They are all vaxxed+boosted, were double masking the entire time at the parks (other than while eating/drinking and posing for photos outdoors), and would tell people in the parks to back up if they got too close for comfort. They even wore real NIOS N95s for their flights.

This **** is serious.

I don’t think it’s surprising that some of them caught it given what we know about Omicron. In such a crowded setting, it would have been more surprising had they not. At any rate, I hope (and assume) they’re all experiencing mild or asymptomatic cases.

 

[DisneyCane]

My brother-in-law, his girlfriend, and a few family members went to WDW for 3 days over the New Year's holiday, returning home on the 1st of January.

They're back home now, and more than half of their party just tested positive for covid today. They are all vaxxed+boosted, were double masking the entire time at the parks (other than while eating/drinking and posing for photos outdoors), and would tell people in the parks to back up if they got too close for comfort. They even wore real NIOS N95s for their flights.

This **** is serious.

Do they have any symptoms or did they just get tested out of curiosity?

 

[Heelz2315]

Anyone see the UF's latest prediction for Florida? Wonder if that'll hold. If so the spring/summer may be pretty good. I know ALOT of folks are ready to go have a nice summer break after this.

Covid-19 Research » Emerging Pathogens Institute » University of Florida

University of Florida

epi.ufl.edu

 

[correcaminos]

It's foolish to not get vaccinated.

no kidding

we had a covid death due to their reluctance to take even basic precautions to avoid getting sick. They were otherwise healthy and fit, but refused the vaccine, refused to mask, refused to distance, and went to bars and restaurants. Covid got one of them about 40 days ago, and it was a very slow and painful death.

Hopefully this encourages the others in the family to get the vaccine and take some basic precautions.

I am so sorry. Fortunately my only close personal deaths I know of were pre-vaccine. Not to say I don't know of people who died, just no one I am close to (so like a removal of one away). One of my friends who I posted about with the baby who caught covid 2x (summer and again just before Christmas from the childcare worker) had a friend post on their comment about it who lost their one parent to covid - other parent about to be released after a lengthy stay - and had been hospitalized themself for covid not to mention a slew of family. All not vaccinated. So while so many were sick, there were so few in their group not to take care of issues at hand. The other I posted about - under 20 (being vague at the request of the friend who lost this loved one for complete privacy outside of it) just didn't take it seriously. Thought they'd be fine and now they are being buried. Likely Delta due to the time but still.

People need to take it seriously still. My kid is scheduled for his booster tomorrow. I made the conscious choice to go for Friday because after his 2nd dose he had kind of a "brain fog" and figured with quizzes today and tomorrow, that's not the best choice.

My kid was also invited to a birthday party next Saturday. I'm rather torn. In a pubic place that claims they require masks. Still... ugh. We are no longer eating out for a reason too. But will do take out and do great tips for that instead as we did before my kid was vaccinated!