Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[JoeCamel]

Lockdown will be off the tables folks.

They don't solve the problem if everyone dosen't follow it

 

[DisneyFan32]

Although, other reports indicate they may move to increased testing.

How long will Omicron variant slow down soon as Canada will reopening by Spring 2022? I just want the pandemic over soon.

 

[DisneyCane]

It's not true.

The higher the community spread is, the more often you'll be exposed to the virus.
The more often you're exposed to the virus, the more likely you are to have a breakthrough case.
Having a breakthrough case greatly increases the risk that you'll have some lingering effect, even if the chance of a serious impact is smaller.

Hence, the chance that you'll lose your sense of smell as a result of a breakthrough case resulting from higher community spread is directly related to the actions of others and their choice not to vaccinate.

The fact that we cannot vaccinate "everywhere in the world at once" doesn't change the fact that you're personally going places where we're also not vaccinating enough. Like, say WDW, the mall, or MCO airport.

Time is not on your side here. The longer we go with high spread, the more often and larger number of times you'll be exposed to the virus.

You could do other mitigation efforts to try and reduce that exposure beyond just the vaccine. But, they're not nearly as durable as everyone being vaccinated, they're subject to mistakes, the risk of a mistake goes up the longer and more often they need to be done, and as you've said before, they're just a pain and something nobody really wants to do.

As much as you want this to be an individual responsibility thing, it's not. It's a group project, and the group members not pulling their weight are a direct threat to others.

While you are correct from a statistical standpoint, the risk of a breakthrough case with mild symptoms to somebody under 60 who is fully vaccinated and keeps up with recommended boosters is still going to be extremely low even with "high" community transmission. Even a weekly case rate of 2000 per 100k people is still only around 2% of the population in an infectious state on any given day. On an individual bases you are not very likely to have a long duration, close contact with one of them.

If it is a group project it is going to fail unless there is actual forced vaccination. There are going to be a percentage of people who are dead set against vaccination and are not covered by any mandates (if they don't get permanently tossed in court) and who will just avoid places or activities covered by vaccine passports.

I just don't see the point in an exercise in futility. I think we would be better off making vaccination about personal protection, dropping all mitigation and just letting the virus rip through the unvaccinated holdouts as quickly as possible.

I know the working theory is that the higher the case rate is the more likely mutations are. However, isn't it possible that if the current variants are allowed to spread freely among the unvaccinated, mutations could be less likely since the virus doesn't need to adapt to find hosts? I don't know if it works the same as it does with bacteria but it is my understanding that antibiotic resistant bacteria evolve because they are being fought with the antibiotics so they need to adapt to survive.

 

[DisneyCane]

Population Adjusted case rates in Canada have been significantly lower than the US the last few months. Despite the Northern states doing poorly, the numbers drop off at the border. I think that is largely in part because of much higher vaccination penetration and us inching towards said tipping point.

Do many parts of Canada still have mitigation beyond indoor masks? Does Canada have a higher vaccination rate than Vermont? Being in FL and pretty far from the Canadian border I haven't kept up with the current status up there.

 

[Kman]

Do many parts of Canada still have mitigation beyond indoor masks? Does Canada have a higher vaccination rate than Vermont? Being in FL and pretty far from the Canadian border I haven't kept up with the current status up there.

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker

Real-time COVID-19 vaccination updates for every region in Canada, tracking doses of Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine delivered and administered to Canadians.

covid19tracker.ca

 

[JoeCamel]

While you are correct from a statistical standpoint, the risk of a breakthrough case with mild symptoms to somebody under 60 who is fully vaccinated and keeps up with recommended boosters is still going to be extremely low even with "high" community transmission. Even a weekly case rate of 2000 per 100k people is still only around 2% of the population in an infectious state on any given day. On an individual bases you are not very likely to have a long duration, close contact with one of them.

If it is a group project it is going to fail unless there is actual forced vaccination. There are going to be a percentage of people who are dead set against vaccination and are not covered by any mandates (if they don't get permanently tossed in court) and who will just avoid places or activities covered by vaccine passports.

I just don't see the point in an exercise in futility. I think we would be better off making vaccination about personal protection, dropping all mitigation and just letting the virus rip through the unvaccinated holdouts as quickly as possible.

I know the working theory is that the higher the case rate is the more likely mutations are. However, isn't it possible that if the current variants are allowed to spread freely among the unvaccinated, mutations could be less likely since the virus doesn't need to adapt to find hosts? I don't know if it works the same as it does with bacteria but it is my understanding that antibiotic resistant bacteria evolve because they are being fought with the antibiotics so they need to adapt to survive.

Do you play the lotto?
I'll take $2000 in safe interest vs a chance of hitting it. Still a chance and if you do it is life changing. If it mutates in a bad way we all lose the life lotto.

 

[DisneyCane]

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker

Real-time COVID-19 vaccination updates for every region in Canada, tracking doses of Moderna, Pfizer-BioNTech and AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine delivered and administered to Canadians.

covid19tracker.ca

So Vermont is higher for at least one dose (87.5% vs 81.7%) and slightly lower for fully vaccinated (75.6% vs 76.424%) compared to Canada. If vaccination rate is causing Canada to show reduced spread getting near the tipping point the same should be seen in Vermont I would think.

The question is what are the other variables in Canada keeping the rate lower than the US currently?

 

[DisneyCane]

Do you play the lotto?
I'll take $2000 in safe interest vs a chance of hitting it. Still a chance and if you do it is life changing. If it mutates in a bad way we all lose the life lotto.

Only when the Powerball or Megamillions is over $300 million. Then I'll take a shot for $2 knowing that I'm wasting $2.

What you say is a moot point for two reasons. #1, there are billions of unvaccinated people around the world and that isn't changing anytime soon. #2, there are a percentage of people in the US who will not get vaccinated unless they are arrested, tied down and literally have an injection forced into them no matter what mandates are passed even if they are legal. So, why worry about it?

If it happens, it will suck and possibly be like the Spanish flu or the Black Death. After those the human race still survived and is still here and the earth kept spinning. The same would be true again in the extremely unlikely event that a mutation which was that deadly and transmissible occurred.

 

[JoeCamel]

Only when the Powerball or Megamillions is over $300 million. Then I'll take a shot for $2 knowing that I'm wasting $2.

What you say is a moot point for two reasons. #1, there are billions of unvaccinated people around the world and that isn't changing anytime soon. #2, there are a percentage of people in the US who will not get vaccinated unless they are arrested, tied down and literally have an injection forced into them no matter what mandates are passed even if they are legal. So, why worry about it?

If it happens, it will suck and possibly be like the Spanish flu or the Black Death. After those the human race still survived and is still here and the earth kept spinning. The same would be true again in the extremely unlikely event that a mutation which was that deadly and transmissible occurred.

OK, I'll just give up taking any measures. Nice talking to you, have a magical day

 

[correcaminos]

While you are correct from a statistical standpoint, the risk of a breakthrough case with mild symptoms to somebody under 60 who is fully vaccinated and keeps up with recommended boosters is still going to be extremely low even with "high" community transmission. Even a weekly case rate of 2000 per 100k people is still only around 2% of the population in an infectious state on any given day. On an individual bases you are not very likely to have a long duration, close contact with one of them.

If it is a group project it is going to fail unless there is actual forced vaccination. There are going to be a percentage of people who are dead set against vaccination and are not covered by any mandates (if they don't get permanently tossed in court) and who will just avoid places or activities covered by vaccine passports.

I just don't see the point in an exercise in futility. I think we would be better off making vaccination about personal protection, dropping all mitigation and just letting the virus rip through the unvaccinated holdouts as quickly as possible.

I know the working theory is that the higher the case rate is the more likely mutations are. However, isn't it possible that if the current variants are allowed to spread freely among the unvaccinated, mutations could be less likely since the virus doesn't need to adapt to find hosts? I don't know if it works the same as it does with bacteria but it is my understanding that antibiotic resistant bacteria evolve because they are being fought with the antibiotics so they need to adapt to survive.

Vaccination is never just about personal protection. This is the problem! People being selfish and thinking it's just them is the problem. We need to do absolutely the opposite of what you are suggesting.

 

[Kman]

So Vermont is higher for at least one dose (87.5% vs 81.7%) and slightly lower for fully vaccinated (75.6% vs 76.424%) compared to Canada. If vaccination rate is causing Canada to show reduced spread getting near the tipping point the same should be seen in Vermont I would think.

The question is what are the other variables in Canada keeping the rate lower than the US currently?

In Canada we are far more compliant when it comes to things like mask mandates etc. In my area, and I don't believe we are any different than the rest of the country, masks are mandatory in all indoor settings. It is exceedingly rare to see someone without a mask indoors. I realize masks aren't the silver bullet but it is an example of how Canadians are generally willing to follow the rules. We also have been very tough on lockdowns and other social restrictions over the course of the pandemic which has helped.

 

[DisneyCane]

OK, I'll just give up taking any measures. Nice talking to you, have a magical day

I know you are being sarcastic but you'll be much happier for the next few years if you stopped worrying about COVID once vaccinated (and followed up with boosters) and did just that.

 

[DisneyCane]

Vaccination is never just about personal protection. This is the problem! People being selfish and thinking it's just them is the problem. We need to do absolutely the opposite of what you are suggesting.

There are a percentage of people (probably 10-20%) who will not get vaccinated no matter what you or I do or say. As I said in another post, even if a law was passed at the federal level that made COVID vaccination mandatory for everybody and it held up through the court challenges, you'd literally have to tie those people down and force the needle into their arm to get them to take the vaccine.

 

[Touchdown]

It would have been worse if liquor stores were closed to the public. Selling alcohol was deemed as an essential service or else some would start to lose their minds if these stores were shut down.

I’m not going to explain this again. Please google delirium tremens. A severe, life threatening, hospital requiring, condition that occurs in alcoholics that stop drinking abruptly. The only prevention to this condition other then an inpatient admission is alcohol. Hospitals didn’t need a surge in admissions.

 

[correcaminos]

There are a percentage of people (probably 10-20%) who will not get vaccinated no matter what you or I do or say. As I said in another post, even if a law was passed at the federal level that made COVID vaccination mandatory for everybody and it held up through the court challenges, you'd literally have to tie those people down and force the needle into their arm to get them to take the vaccine.

This reads more like an excuse not to try than actuality. Not everything is being held up in court. And no one is going to tie anyone down. I'm still very understanding of people fearing thanks to idiots spreading lies, I really am, though if they have a non allergy fear I kind of tilt my head as covid itself is really statistically more dangerous than getting a shot. I'm slowly being moved to the to those whining about mandates. Individual choices are mucking it up here and I'm seriously tired of catering to that.

Again I now know personally someone's whose health issue was worse thanks to unvaccinated taking up space. I also know people who quit hospital work because they were mentally exhausted seeing people not care about others.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

This reads more like an excuse not to try than actuality. Not everything is being held up in court. And no one is going to tie anyone down. I'm still very understanding of people fearing thanks to idiots spreading lies, I really am, though if they have a non allergy fear I kind of tilt my head as covid itself is really statistically more dangerous than getting a shot. I'm slowly being moved to the IDGAF to those whining about mandates. Individual choices are mucking it up here and I'm seriously tired of catering to that.

Again I now know personally someone's whose health issue was worse thanks to unvaccinated taking up space. I also know people who quit hospital work because they were mentally exhausted seeing people not care about others.

I’m all for tying people down. Bit sarcastic of course but I just keep thinking of the final result. I can be persuaded.

 

[Jrb1979]

Yeah it definitely feels like… we are going back to March 2020 or something. And I mean, I want us to all be safe, and have common sense restrictions in place.

But since we are all going to start getting boosters in a few weeks, and most the vulnerable already have them, it seems a bit much to cut off travel again.

Disagree. I would be fine with not bringing restrictions back but when I hear many people who have crossed the land border not having to show their test or proof of vaccination there is a problem.

With them bringing restrictions back is why I am in no hurry to travel anytime soon. Too many hoops to jump through to go anywhere

 

[Nubs70]

So Vermont is higher for at least one dose (87.5% vs 81.7%) and slightly lower for fully vaccinated (75.6% vs 76.424%) compared to Canada. If vaccination rate is causing Canada to show reduced spread getting near the tipping point the same should be seen in Vermont I would think.

The question is what are the other variables in Canada keeping the rate lower than the US currently?

One well known variable is virtue.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’m not going to explain this again. Please google delirium tremens. A severe, life threatening, hospital requiring, condition that occurs in alcoholics that stop drinking abruptly. The only prevention to this condition other then an inpatient admission is alcohol. Hospitals didn’t need a surge in admissions.

Plus, patient's going through delerium tremens consume a disproportionate amount of hospital staff's time.

 

[Jrb1979]

So Vermont is higher for at least one dose (87.5% vs 81.7%) and slightly lower for fully vaccinated (75.6% vs 76.424%) compared to Canada. If vaccination rate is causing Canada to show reduced spread getting near the tipping point the same should be seen in Vermont I would think.

The question is what are the other variables in Canada keeping the rate lower than the US currently?

There is lots of variables. Canada require everyone to wear masks indoors. I think the biggest one is the vaccine passport.