Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

It’s a good thing big pharma and governments wasn’t playing it “too safe” when they created and approved the vaccines in 9 months when the safe approach would have been the usual 5 year approval process.

In this case “too safe” would have gotten a lot of folks in trouble….

Is this supposed to imply that corners were cut or that it wasn't safe?

Because that would be a total line of crap.


All the same safety steps were used in the approval of the COVID vaccines as other vaccines.


It's amazing how much time you can save finding enough people to enroll in the study and have enough of them exposed to the disease where there is rampant uncontrolled spread occurring.

If I was testing a Rabies vaccine in the US, it could take decades to have enough exposure events to gather any useful data. COVID events in a single day during the testing were many orders of magnitudes larger.

 

[Patcheslee]

Actually you can for "wrong" with requiring vaccinations if you end up having to fire to many employees because they won't get vaccinated.

This, if we lose the 25% in my department alone that refuse vaccination, I'll be looking at 12hrs 7 days a week. We bring in temps all the time, training is a 3 month process at minimum before they are signed off, and we still only have 1 in 5 stay.
I wouldn't quit due to a vaccine mandate, but the hours would push it for many. I can't pull the same as 15 years ago.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Is this supposed to imply that corners were cut or that it wasn't safe?

Because that would be a total line of crap.


All the same safety steps were used in the approval of the COVID vaccines as other vaccines.


It's amazing how much time you can save finding enough people to enroll in the study and have enough of them exposed to the disease where there is rampant uncontrolled spread occurring.

If I was testing a Rabies vaccine in the US, it could take decades to have enough exposure events to gather any useful data. COVID events in a single day during the testing were many orders of magnitudes larger.

Ironically, there is a tentative vaccine against rabies under investigation that uses the exact same mRNA technique as the current COVID vaccines. But this trial will take years to complete because rabies is a relatively rare disease in both humans and domestic animals and it will take a long time to reach statistical significance. The silver lining of an out-of-control COVID pandemic is that drug and vaccine trials will have ample test subjects, and can reach their clinical targets very quickly.

"They came up with it too soon!" is an antivax theory we thoroughly debunked almost a year ago.

 

[Lilofan]

This, if we lose the 25% in my department alone that refuse vaccination, I'll be looking at 12hrs 7 days a week. We bring in temps all the time, training is a 3 month process at minimum before they are signed off, and we still only have 1 in 5 stay.
I wouldn't quit due to a vaccine mandate, but the hours would push it for many. I can't pull the same as 15 years ago.

If you are getting paid by the hour you will be making a hefty sum with OT. Some of my banker friends of mine working in NYC pull 90 hour weeks 6am-9pm 6 days a week , salaried but well compensated. It is too bad they don't have much time to enjoy and relax.

 

[mmascari]

This, if we lose the 25% in my department alone that refuse vaccination

Is that likely though?

I mean, is your department 4 people and everyone just KNOWS Jan isn't vaccinated and will quit?

Or, something like 12 people and it's Jan, Karen, and Debbie that will all leave. But, will all 3 really leave or is that just big talk. Everyone knows Debbie has a WDW addiction and needs the money.

We haven't seen any real world actual employee loss anywhere near 25%, even when it's talked up. More like 1%.

, I'll be looking at 12hrs 7 days a week. We bring in temps all the time, training is a 3 month process at minimum before they are signed off, and we still only have 1 in 5 stay.

If it really is a small department, and this represents just one person leaving, which is completely valid scenario, that 1% figure is for large numbers. Then, you've already got business issues today. What if instead of a vaccine mandate, Jan wins the Power Ball? You don't think she's still coming to work after that. Not Jan, no way.

I worked in a department once where a group pooled and bought lottery tickets. They hit a big one, and 10 of 11 people in the pool quit the next week. The 11th was an executive and we think he was only in the pool to be nice, didn't need the money.

(This is also more pleasant than pretending Jan is hit by a bus. Even Jan doesn't deserve that.)

I wouldn't quit due to a vaccine mandate, but the hours would push it for many. I can't pull the same as 15 years ago.

Even if you did, it's not like you quit over the vaccine mandate. It would be over the poor working hours and conditions. That's not the same as leaving because of the mandate.

 

[Ayla]

It’s a good thing big pharma and governments wasn’t playing it “too safe” when they created and approved the vaccines in 9 months when the safe approach would have been the usual 5 year approval process.

In this case “too safe” would have gotten a lot of folks in trouble….

*sigh* Are we still doing this?

 

[DisneyFan32]

By mid March 2022 when the cases are low enough as mask mandate will be lifted for good for trains, planes and buses.
Even future variants can't handle the question, whatever the pandemic will ending soon, we'll victory to the end.

 

[mmascari]

But this trial will take years to complete because rabies is a relatively rare disease in both humans and domestic animals and it will take a long time to reach statistical significance.

That's why I picked it. Nobody would do a Rabies study in the US. Last I heard, most were being done in India where it's more common. Still nowhere near COVID levels.

 

[Patcheslee]

If you are getting paid by the hour you will be making a hefty sum with OT. Some of my banker friends of mine working in NYC pull 90 hour weeks 6am-9pm 6 days a week , salaried but well compensated. It is too bad they don't have much time to enjoy and relax.

$28/hr now, double time after 48hr, so yes it's a big check but took it's toll on my body. Work in manufacturing, already diagnosed with carpal tunnel 5 years ago because of the repetitive movement, and a knee that needs replaced.

 

[DisneyCane]

As a business, you cannot go wrong just picking that you'll require everyone to get vaccinated. It's good if any or all of the options end up and still good if none of them end up being required. Good for employees too.

The biggest concern would be for people that are granted exceptions. It's pretty safe that anyone with a real medical exemption would be good under any of the plans. The exact testing requirements then are probably the bigger question, but that's much easier to change over time.

Granting other exceptions probably has the bigger risk. Depending on the final outcome, some of those exceptions could go away or not. There's only an impact if the specific exception goes away and the business was depending on it. For instance, if a business takes a wide exception rule and allows it for any reason with a testing requirement, that's the one that's could likely go away depending on the final rule that really applies to a specific business.

Nobody ever got in trouble for being "to safe". They may have spent some extra money to do it, but that's not the same thing.

Doing it does put the decision squarely on the business though, without the cover of "we're just doing it because we have to". If that's good or bad probably depends on where the business is located.

Actually you can for "wrong" with requiring vaccinations if you end up having to fire to many employees because they won't get vaccinated.

You can also go wrong if you violate a conflicting state law and the courts side with the states. You could end up with fines and, in some cases, wrongful termination suits.

 

[Andrew C]

You can also go wrong if you violate a conflicting state law and the courts side with the states. You could end up with fines and, in some cases, wrongful termination suits.

Yeah. Lots of companies sort of in a holding pattern for now.

 

[Patcheslee]

Is that likely though?

I mean, is your department 4 people and everyone just KNOWS Jan isn't vaccinated and will quit?

Or, something like 12 people and it's Jan, Karen, and Debbie that will all leave. But, will all 3 really leave or is that just big talk. Everyone knows Debbie has a WDW addiction and needs the money.

We haven't seen any real world actual employee loss anywhere near 25%, even when it's talked up. More like 1%.


If it really is a small department, and this represents just one person leaving, which is completely valid scenario, that 1% figure is for large numbers. Then, you've already got business issues today. What if instead of a vaccine mandate, Jan wins the Power Ball? You don't think she's still coming to work after that. Not Jan, no way.

I worked in a department once where a group pooled and bought lottery tickets. They hit a big one, and 10 of 11 people in the pool quit the next week. The 11th was an executive and we think he was only in the pool to be nice, didn't need the money.

(This is also more pleasant than pretending Jan is hit by a bus. Even Jan doesn't deserve that.)


Even if you did, it's not like you quit over the vaccine mandate. It would be over the poor working hours and conditions. That's not the same as leaving because of the mandate.

There is supposed to be 9 people on 1st shift, 8 on 2nd. We have 7 on 1st and 3 on 2nd right now. That's why we've already increased hours to 10hrs 6 days. Right now only 6 of us are vaccinated. The remaining are unvaccinated, 2 of which are temps just beginning training. No it's not good right now.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Is that likely though?

I mean, is your department 4 people and everyone just KNOWS Jan isn't vaccinated and will quit?

Or, something like 12 people and it's Jan, Karen, and Debbie that will all leave. But, will all 3 really leave or is that just big talk. Everyone knows Debbie has a WDW addiction and needs the money.

We haven't seen any real world actual employee loss anywhere near 25%, even when it's talked up. More like 1%.


If it really is a small department, and this represents just one person leaving, which is completely valid scenario, that 1% figure is for large numbers. Then, you've already got business issues today. What if instead of a vaccine mandate, Jan wins the Power Ball? You don't think she's still coming to work after that. Not Jan, no way.

I worked in a department once where a group pooled and bought lottery tickets. They hit a big one, and 10 of 11 people in the pool quit the next week. The 11th was an executive and we think he was only in the pool to be nice, didn't need the money.

(This is also more pleasant than pretending Jan is hit by a bus. Even Jan doesn't deserve that.)


Even if you did, it's not like you quit over the vaccine mandate. It would be over the poor working hours and conditions. That's not the same as leaving because of the mandate.

Considering 30% of adults are so entrenched they are still unvaccinated after nearly a year of availability I think 20% who will quit is probably a fair guess.

Even if it’s half that it’ll be disastrous in an already understaffed job market. Businesses around me are already running reduced hours because they can’t staff all shifts, they simply can’t afford to lose another 10%.

And I think the snowball affect is a bigger concern, there’s so many overworked people already that one loss may start a chain reaction.

 

[Lilofan]

Considering 30% of adults are so entrenched they are still unvaccinated after nearly a year of availability I think 20% who will quit is probably a fair guess.

Even if it’s half that it’ll be disastrous in an already understaffed job market. Businesses around me are already running reduced hours because they can’t staff all shifts, they simply can’t afford to lose another 10%.

And I think the snowball affect is a bigger concern, there’s so many overworked people already that one loss may start a chain reaction.

It's not the Great Recession but nowadays it's the Great Resignation.

 

[FanforDisney]

By mid March 2022 when the cases are low enough as mask mandate will be lifted for good for trains, planes and buses.
Even future variants can't handle the question, whatever the pandemic will ending soon, we'll victory to the end.

You are dreaming March 2022, we well be lucky if its March 2023. The goal post keeps moving for obvious reasons.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

It's not the Great Recession but nowadays it's the Great Resignation.

Which ends up being like 1% of the company because most don't want to lose their jobs.

 

[mmascari]

There is supposed to be 9 people on 1st shift, 8 on 2nd. We have 7 on 1st and 3 on 2nd right now. That's why we've already increased hours to 10hrs 6 days. Right now only 6 of us are vaccinated. The remaining are unvaccinated, 2 of which are temps just beginning training. No it's not good right now.

That sounds horrible. Already functioning with only 60% of required staff. I can completely see that loosing even just 1 person would be a disaster. Vaccine mandate or not, that's not really sustainable. Time to buy that Powerball ticket, YOU could be the one to leave.

Considering 30% of adults are so entrenched they are still unvaccinated after nearly a year of availability I think 20% who will quit is probably a fair guess.

Have we seen that anywhere that has a mandate though? The highest I remember is 2% and most new stories were 1% or less. Have we actually seen any company say they lost 5% or 10% or more because of a vaccine requirement, in any industry?

 

[mmascari]

You are dreaming March 2022, we well be lucky if its March 2023. The goal post keeps moving for obvious reasons.

It's not the goal posts moving. Unless the date is the goal post, but that makes no sense. It's our inability to reach the goal that keeps shifting the prediction on when we'll get there.

A pessimist would say we'll never reach the goal, and hence the date will never come. I don't think it's that bad, we'll get there, eventually...

 

[MisterPenguin]

Considering 30% of adults are so entrenched they are still unvaccinated after nearly a year of availability I think 20% who will quit is probably a fair guess.

Even if it’s half that it’ll be disastrous in an already understaffed job market. Businesses around me are already running reduced hours because they can’t staff all shifts, they simply can’t afford to lose another 10%.

And I think the snowball affect is a bigger concern, there’s so many overworked people already that one loss may start a chain reaction.

Most companies and unions that had 20-30% unvaccinated found that upon mandating the vaccine, in the end, only 1-5% refused to comply and either quit or were fired.

 

[Andrew C]

Most companies and unions that had 20-30% unvaccinated found that upon mandating the vaccine, in the end, only 1-5% refused to comply and either quit or were fired.

That’s still a lot. Something to be considered.