Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

New Yorkers flying to Florida to self-quarantine for 14 days, Gov. DeSantis says

“I would reckon, given the outbreak there, that every single flight has somebody on it who is positive for COVID-19,” Gov. Ron DeSantis said late Monday.

www.tampabay.com

This won't work. I'm from NJ but always fly to Florida from PA. There's no way to police this

 

[ELG13]

Even if there are 10 times the confirmed cases in Florida, these are not "huge numbers." Florida has a population over 21 million. Even if there are 24,000 cases, that's still only 0.11% of the population. The deaths are infinitesimal in relation to the population.

This focus on "big numbers" is what has caused the panic and extreme reactions. We are having a bad flu season in the USA and 23,000 have died so far and there have been almost 400,000 hospitalizations for the flu and nobody bats an eye.

All of a sudden there are 50,000 confirmed CASES of COVID-19 and the world must stop and save every life possible. Even if there are really 500,000 cases including the mild or asymptomatic, 75% of that number has been hospitalized by the flu.

This is an overreaction driven by the worldwide media supported by health officials going on a power trip.

If this $2 trillion stimulus gets passed and you assume that 70% of the US population would have been infected without these extreme measures and the real mortality rate (taking into account the mild and asymptomatic cases that haven't been being confirmed) is 2.5 times the flu, it works out to approximately $3.5 million per life saved, a majority of which are elderly with limited remaining life span as it is. That's not taking into account the cost of the economic damage. How's that for a big number?

An honest question for people in the UK. Would your health system spend that much to save an 80 year old with another disease like cancer?

I think the problem in Florida, especially South Florida, is the aging population. It could have a significant impact on that population, thus the healthcare systems down there, if it were to continue to spread at a high rate. Many more of those people would have more severe symptoms, requiring hospitalization. That's what we are trying to avoid....mass hospitalizations.

 

[21stamps]

Key West is desolate. No tourists, no bars. Just struggling workers

Usually this time of year, Key West is overrun by people.

www.tampabay.com

monroe county has been closed to visitors. It’s such a sad situation after everything they went thru with Irma.

 

[imallearsgurl]

I was referencing the seriousness with which the virus is being treated. There is a certain level of flippancy I've seen in flyover country.

As someone who lives in the midwest (Kansas City area), I don't see much flippancy here. All of our schools shut down over a week ago, and most of the area municipalities are under stay at home orders until late April. Our local restaurants have been closed for dine-in service for over a week, and churches have switched to virtual services. Only essential businesses are allowed to remain open (with restaurants limited to drive through, curbside pickup, or delivery only). And this has been done in spite of the fact we are much more spread out than larger cities and have had relatively low (albeit growing) numbers of confirmed cases. At the time our shutdowns started, we were in the single digits or teens for number of cases in Kansas and Missouri.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be taking these steps, nor am I saying we don't have our share of people who think they are invincible or that the rules don't apply to them....but overall the vast majority are taking this very seriously and dealing with the social and economic fallout like everyone else. We might not be feeling the impacts as heavily as the coasts, but we are definitely watching and trying to be as proactive as possible.

Perhaps there are some parts of "flyover country" that are flippant about this, but not from where I'm sitting.

 

[thomas998]

I'm hopeful the arthritis drug that's already in use and has shown promise proves to be effective and that we're able to wrangle this thing sooner than we could hope to have a vaccine.

The arthritis drug (chloroquine) isn't a real treatment or cure, what it does is lower the probability of a person experiencing a cytokine storm by lowering the immune system's response. What has been found in China is that a large number percentage of those that died did so by of a cytokine storm overwhelmed the patient's body... think about it as your body going from a handful of cells to fight an invader to everything but the kitchen sink... The everything but the kitchen sink level is too much and your lung and heart can't handle it. So while the arthritis drug can lower your chance of that happening it doesn't actually get you over the virus any faster nor eliminate the possibility that you develop life threatening pneumonia. So don't think it will be a wonder drug to cure it, it won't do that.

 

[dizneycrazy09]

As someone who lives in the midwest (Kansas City area), I don't see much flippancy here. All of our schools shut down over a week ago, and most of the area municipalities are under stay at home orders until late April. Our local restaurants have been closed for dine-in service for over a week, and churches have switched to virtual services. Only essential businesses are allowed to remain open (with restaurants limited to drive through, curbside pickup, or delivery only). And this has been done in spite of the fact we are much more spread out than larger cities and have had relatively low (albeit growing) numbers of confirmed cases. At the time our shutdowns started, we were in the single digits or teens for number of cases in Kansas and Missouri.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be taking these steps, nor am I saying we don't have our share of people who think they are invincible or that the rules don't apply to them....but overall the vast majority are taking this very seriously and dealing with the social and economic fallout like everyone else. We might not be feeling the impacts as heavily as the coasts, but we are definitely watching and trying to be as proactive as possible.

Perhaps there are some parts of "flyover country" that are flippant about this, but not from where I'm sitting.

Apologies if it came across as a generalization. I can only speak anecdotally to the people I've chatted with over the last few days.

 

[DCBaker]

 

[21stamps]

As someone who lives in the midwest (Kansas City area), I don't see much flippancy here. All of our schools shut down over a week ago, and most of the area municipalities are under stay at home orders until late April. Our local restaurants have been closed for dine-in service for over a week, and churches have switched to virtual services. Only essential businesses are allowed to remain open (with restaurants limited to drive through, curbside pickup, or delivery only). And this has been done in spite of the fact we are much more spread out than larger cities and have had relatively low (albeit growing) numbers of confirmed cases. At the time our shutdowns started, we were in the single digits or teens for number of cases in Kansas and Missouri.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be taking these steps, nor am I saying we don't have our share of people who think they are invincible or that the rules don't apply to them....but overall the vast majority are taking this very seriously and dealing with the social and economic fallout like everyone else. We might not be feeling the impacts as heavily as the coasts, but we are definitely watching and trying to be as proactive as possible.

Perhaps there are some parts of "flyover country" that are flippant about this, but not from where I'm sitting.

Yep.
I literally posted photos of a near-empty Downtown Cincinnati yesterday. Ohio was the first state to close schools.
Indiana now has longer school closures than Ohio.
Kentucky is basically on a stay at home order.
Illinois has a ton of shutdowns.
That’s just a few examples.

Not sure what states were included in that OP

 

[Queen of the WDW Scene]

If they can do it why can't we?

 

[Tom P.]

If they can do it why can't we?

Two reasons:
1. Our laws and constitution are very different than other countries and the federal government has much more limited authority.
2. Trump is already antsy with the measures currently being taken due to their effect on the stock market. He is signaling, pretty strongly, that he wants to go "back to normal" as soon as next week, regardless of the consequences for the virus.

 

[DisneyCane]

The arthritis drug (chloroquine) isn't a real treatment or cure, what it does is lower the probability of a person experiencing a cytokine storm by lowering the immune system's response. What has been found in China is that a large number percentage of those that died did so by of a cytokine storm overwhelmed the patient's body... think about it as your body going from a handful of cells to fight an invader to everything but the kitchen sink... The everything but the kitchen sink level is too much and your lung and heart can't handle it. So while the arthritis drug can lower your chance of that happening it doesn't actually get you over the virus any faster nor eliminate the possibility that you develop life threatening pneumonia. So don't think it will be a wonder drug to cure it, it won't do that.

Your description doesn't jibe with the French study (albeit too small to really draw a conclusion from) that showed the virus not being detectable after 6 days for patients taking cloroquine and azithromyacin vs. much longer for the control group. It seems that there is some hope that it could reduce the duration of illness and perhaps severity.

 

[Andrew C]

Two reasons:
1. Our laws and constitution are very different than other countries and the federal government has much more limited authority.
2. Trump is already antsy with the measures currently being taken due to their effect on the stock market. He is signaling, pretty strongly, that he wants to go "back to normal" as soon as next week, regardless of the consequences for the virus.

Not to mention, the plan we have out right now (15 days to stop the spread) is essentially at the recommendation of our experts..

They will present updated recommendations to POTUS in the very near future...this week, from what I understand

 

[GoofGoof]

This won't work. I'm from NJ but always fly to Florida from PA. There's no way to police this

I live in PA but work in NJ. I haven’t been to work in over a week, but I’m just as likely to be infected as someone who lives there. I wonder if they will manage it by license or passport home address. If your address is in NY or NJ they flag you no matter what airport you fly in from. Not sure who is expected to manage that though. Each airline would need to agree to do it and/or TSA And then they would need people to haul you off to quarantine. Nobody has the extra staff to handle that. The whole thing smells like a political stunt to me

 

[thomas998]

This is pro-WHO, anti-USA, propaganda BS. The WHO that was more concerned about preventing stigmas than virus spread. Go read their tweets from a few weeks ago.

The article pretends that South Korea "flattened the curve" because of testing. The testing is nice because it gives good data but it was the draconian measures they put in place that reduced the spread (but still hasn't stopped it). The same thing would have happened without the broad testing if the same measures were in place.

This virus spreads too easily and has too many asymptomatic/mild cases to stop via quarantine. Testing only matters if quarantine will work or there is a specific treatment for this virus. Hopefully the studies go well and there is a specific treatment soon so testing will matter.

BTW, Guardian, what did Italy do wrong? Compared to population, they aren't even on the same planet as the USA in terms of not preventing the spread. Did they also reject the magic WHO test that has a large false result issue?

I think good testing is critical even if you can't cure the virus, because we all know that people do not follow rules when it comes to quarantines even when they know they are infected. Just look at the number of people that are infect and then go fly somewhere. If you look at what South Korea also did beyond testing is that they posted who was positive so that people could see if they were potentially exposed. But testing in an area where you know of a known carrier allows a government to lock down those positive under house arrest. You don't have enough police to make sure everyone stays inside, but if you can narrow down the number of people to have to keep watch on to those that are infected it makes things alot easier.

As for Italy there are several things that have put them in more deep pooh than places like the US and Germany. Start with the way Italian do their little kiss on the both cheeks when they say hello.... not look at how they often have several generations living in the same house... those things alone are going to help really spread it faster than in a place like the US or Germany where you at most get a handshake. But now look at the number of ICU beds per 100,000 people. Germany has almost 30, the US has about 35... and Italy has 12. Now everyone doesn't need an ICU bed, but using ICU beds gives a better proxy of respirators that a country will have than does looking at hospital beds per 100,000 people because no hospital has a respirator available for every bed it just never made sense to set them up like that. But those are the reason Italy saw their numbers ramp up so quickly and why they reached the limit of their hospitals so soon as well. If I were living in the UK I would be pretty concerned, because the UK only has about 7 ICU beds per 100,000 which indicates they will likely crash their hospital system at an even lower infection level as Italy.

 

[Tom P.]

Not to mention, the plan we have out right now (15 days to stop the spread) is essentially at the recommendation of our experts..

They will present updated recommendations to POTUS in the very near future...this week, from what I understand

Very true. However, I suspect that once the experts' recommendations stop comporting with what Trump wants, he will stop listening to them. I am not trying to be political here, just assessing the facts of the situation as I see them right now.

The governors of many of our states, including mine, have already decided to go farther than what the federal government has done. It is my hope that Trump's instinct to move super-quickly to undo or restrictions gets blunted by the governors. Most states have already ordered that these restrictions last at least a week longer, if not several weeks longer, than the federal recommendations. I hope they aren't pushed into backing off because of Trump.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0200323-qebf2drro5e2xpw3wnr3imgsie-story.html
No refunds or cancellations for APs

 

[DisneyCane]

If they can do it why can't we?

Doing this would require a declaration of martial law. This "crisis" doesn't come close to the level that would justify military control over the country. I doubt that such a declaration would be found valid by the Supreme Court.

My opinion is that almost none of what is being done is actually constitutional. The justification is all based on the fact that somebody that doesn't have the virus, might contract the virus and could then possibly spread it to somebody else. From a purely legal standpoint that would be like arguing that Orange Blossom Trail from Hwy 50 to Sandlake road should be locked down because Johns might go there to hire prostitutes.

Quarantine of people infected with a disease would be found constitutional. I don't see how locking down over 99% of the population that doesn't have a disease is constitutional.

 

[Andrew C]

Very true. However, I suspect that once the experts' recommendations stop comporting with what Trump wants, he will stop listening to them. I am not trying to be political here, just assessing the facts of the situation as I see them right now.

As Dr Fauci has said recently..."the president has the awesome responsibility of considering every aspect of this. I just give public health advice completely clean, unconnected with anything else. He has to factor in other things..... What the president is trying to do is balance the public health issues with the fact this is having an enormous impact on the economy of the country which may actually, indirectly, cause an incredible amount of harm... even health wise."

 

[thomas998]

Your description doesn't jibe with the French study (albeit too small to really draw a conclusion from) that showed the virus not being detectable after 6 days for patients taking cloroquine and azithromyacin vs. much longer for the control group. It seems that there is some hope that it could reduce the duration of illness and perhaps severity.

What I said was based off of what the Chinese found as reported here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32074550 I have heard about the French, but haven't found any study that provide details on how many subjects or anything else.

 

[DisneyCane]

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/bus...0200323-qebf2drro5e2xpw3wnr3imgsie-story.html
No refunds or cancellations for APs

If somebody wants to stop the monthly payment, couldn't they just tell their credit card company they lost their card so they will issue a new one with a new number? Then, Disney's charges would bounce because they are going to the old, closed account number.