Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GimpYancIent]

So, don't complain if your employee-sponsored health premiums go way up to cover the costs of COVID hospitalization.... which tend to be prolonged and VERY expensive. All in the name of some nebulous concept of "freedom" totally removed from the responsibilities that underlie said freedoms...

Yes, I'm mad today because two of my relatively young, unvaccinated patients passed away yesterday from COVID. One left behind two school-aged children. I all but begged both of them to get their vaccines at their last appointments, but they unfortunately bought into all the garbage rhetoric that has surrounded this disease. Rather than take a simple and free vaccination that could have presented this, they are both now dead.

Fully understandable for yourself, a medical professional, providing solid medical advice to patients be angry and frustrated that those patients disregarded that advice to their own detriment. People will make choices regardless of mandates, laws, rules, regulations and qualified advice. All I say is make the remedy as available as possible, make the information / data as available as possible and allow common sense plus reasoning to happen. Sadly, there are those that will make the poor choice.

 

[hopemax]

COVID is here for the long term, but I still have not seen a justification for why letting the amplitude of the curve be as high as possible under @DisneyCane’s is a better way of “living with it” than taking reasonable steps to mitigate the damage. I have made the case that his way will involve more deaths, more disabilities due to Long COVID, more time spent in crisis mode which will have serious implications for the healthcare system and result in everything associated being much more expensive. Healthcare Labor, Insurance premiums, taxes due to more people needing more services like possibly the family @Heppenheimer now that the primary breadwinner is dead. Or are you all just planning on telling the kids, “your dad was an idiot so we are going to let you suffer negative effects that will trickle down to your health and well-being and future earning potential.”

The fantasy will be believing that the associated costs will not be borne by the general population only the ones that stayed unvaccinated. Labor and premiums will be decided by the laws of capitalism so good luck telling business that because there has been a permanent change in demand for many things they can’t profit from it. There may be a greater increase for unvaccinated, but the rest us aren’t getting out of this cheap.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Fully understandable for yourself, a medical professional, providing solid medical advice to patients be angry and frustrated that those patients disregarded that advice to their own detriment. People will make choices regardless of mandates, laws, rules, regulations and qualified advice. All I say is make the remedy as available as possible, make the information / data as available as possible and allow common sense plus reasoning to happen. Sadly, there are those that will make the poor choice.

Why should those who make the right choice pay for those who make the wrong choice?

 

[GimpYancIent]

The vaccine works on an individual level and a population level. The explanation above is about the individual vaccine interactions. This ignores the population level vaccine impact. Arguably, the population level vaccine impact is the more important one. One that's only reached once we've crossed some tipping point. One that many here assume we'll never reach. Which is kind of a self for filling prophecy.

Way to give up without even trying.

Team COVID all they way.

Let's bring back measles and polio while we're at it. Step up your game, expand your horizons. Why only be Team COVID when you can be Team Infectious Diseases. Think BIG.

Sensationalism is not helpful. Competent medical authorities have made it clear there is no 100% anything. Attacking, shaming, belittling, threatening, scare tactics and mandating has not helped resolve anything. Common sense presentation of facts and data with calm conversation would have been and can still be the most beneficial way to go.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Why should those who make the right choice pay for those who make the wrong choice?

Even if there is a premium discount for vaccination or penalty for remaining unvaccinated, I doubt this could make up for the extremely high expense of a COVID hospitalization. These are not like your myocardial infarcts, where the patient goes directly to the cath lab and gets discharged within 24 hours, or a bacterial pneumonia, where most turn around in about 2-3 days. These patients spend weeks in the hospital, then require all kinds of supportive care when they finally limp out the facility. This is a huge extra cost on the system that didn't exist two years ago and is going to affect everyone's insurance premiums going forward.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Why should those who make the right choice pay for those who make the wrong choice?

The price is paid by all parties involved. It's just that the folk's that make poor choices end up paying the steeper penalties.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Sensationalism is not helpful. Competent medical authorities have made it clear there is no 100% anything. Attacking, shaming, belittling, threatening, scare tactics and mandating has not helped resolve anything. Common sense presentation of facts and data with calm conversation would have been and can still be the most beneficial way to go.

You know as well as anyone that there is absolutely no common sense conversation that will convince the idiots to get a free shot for the greater good of the country.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I think anyone eligible but refusing vaccination should pay much higher premiums, just like smokers.

A common sense statement! A person chooses to put themselves at higher risk then higher medical insurance costs should be incurred.

 

[Heppenheimer]

A common sense statement! A person chooses to put themselves at higher risk then higher medical insurance costs should be incurred.

I agree, but that alone isn't going to cover the higher systemic costs that the COVID pandemic has wrought. We will all end up paying more the longer this goes on.

 

[hopemax]

I think anyone eligible but refusing vaccination should pay much higher premiums, just like smokers.

It won’t be so easy to avoid cost spillovers because service prices will be determined by overall demand, not vaccination status. The pharmaceutical company isn’t going to differentiate between the person who needs an inhaler due to regular asthma and the 5 people who need it due to Covid complications. They will just respond to an increased demand for inhalers and raise the cost for everyone. The raw materials for making the extra inhalers become more in demand now too, and are used in something else. So now the other things will pay more for the raw materials which they pass along to all their customers even though some have nothing to do with Covid.

Covid needs competing against non-Covid needs for limited resources.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The price is paid by all parties involved. It's just that the folk's that make poor choices end up paying the steeper penalties.

They’re not right now and you’re telling us those penalties should be artificially limited by the force of law. That loss of employment and income should not be a penalty they have to pay. What is next? Those who chose poorly have been protected from being excluded from venues. They’ve been protected from loss of employment. They’ve been protected from the expense of additional testing. Why should they not be protected from higher premiums?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Sounds more like "We the People" have freedom to make choices and not be dictated to by low brow executives.

You have the freedom to not work for that employer and find one that aligns with your ideals and/or is exempt from any mandates just the same as anyone who didn't like Disney's (now somewhat relaxed) policies on facial hair, tattoos, piercings, etc. had the freedom to seek employment elsewhere. Having the freedom to choose doesn't always mean that you are free from having to make a choice.

 

[GimpYancIent]

You know as well as anyone that there is absolutely no common sense conversation that will convince the idiots to get a free shot for the greater good of the country.

Calling people idiots and being abrasive will not get compliance but rather cause the unconvinced to dig their heals in and resist just to make the point they cannot be pushed around.

 

[GimpYancIent]

They’re not right now and you’re telling us those penalties should be artificially limited by the force of law. That loss of employment and income should not be a penalty they have to pay. What is next? Those who chose poorly have been protected from being excluded from venues. They’ve been protected from loss of employment. They’ve been protected from the expense of additional testing. Why should they not be protected from higher premiums?

Now you are reaching. None of what you state is in line with what I stated. You do not have the high ground. Have a good day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Calling people idiots and being abrasive will not get compliance but rather cause the unconvinced to dig their heals in and resist just to make the point they cannot be pushed around.

So they should be allowed to push others around? They should be allowed to increase premiums for others? They should be allowed to make others work more for weeks if they do get sick? They should be allowed to increase backlogs because work isn’t being done, products aren’t being made?

 

[GimpYancIent]

So they should be allowed to push others around? They should be allowed to increase premiums for others? They should be allowed to make others work more for weeks if they do get sick? They should be allowed to increase backlogs because work isn’t being done, products aren’t being made?

Still reaching HUH? As I said have a nice day.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Now you are reaching. None of what you state is in line with what I stated. You do not have the high ground. Have a good day.

What was incorrect? Employers should be allowed to fire unvaccinated employees? Employers should be allowed to require employees pay for testing if unvaccinated Businesses should be allowed to exclude customers based on vaccination? You applauded the most recent Florida law that covers two of those.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Calling people idiots and being abrasive will not get compliance but rather cause the unconvinced to dig their heals in and resist just to make the point they cannot be pushed around.

My point is that no matter how calm and reasoned the conversation, they will simply ignore you. They don't care about the good of the country, only about their alleged "freedoms".

 

[lazyboy97o]

Still reaching HUH? As I said have a nice day.

How is it a reach? Those things happen.

 

[lazyboy97o]

My point is that no matter how calm and reasoned the conversation, they will simply ignore you. They don't care about the good of the country, only about their alleged "freedoms".

And right now we can see an example of how a vague political position is more important. Actually pointing out the impact of what is being supported is “reaching” and waved off as unrelated. There’s no actual purpose beyond tribalism.