Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[StarWarsGirl]

Being a religious belief does not mean it has to be allowed. There are limits. That governments do not have to provide religious exceptions for vaccines would suggest businesses don’t have to as well. As the article noted, Los Angeles Unified School District does not allow religious exemptions for students who also have First Amendment rights.

Schools are under different jurisdictions than employers, and employers must allow it under the equal opportunity employment act. The option for kids with a true religious exemption is homeschooling; adults pretty much have to work. The other issue with California is that too many parents claim a religious exemption when they just don't want to vaccinate. Those with true religious exemptions should be few and far between and again, that's why everyone else needs to get vaccinated, because those people likely wouldn't accept medical treatment either if they got sick.

 

[BrianLo]

Not really. I ignored all the advice of my doctors and took a huge risk to get the vaccine because I wanted to travel again and stop living like a hermit, and thankfully nothing bad happened. And although unlikely, I could still have a reaction to the second shot. Others might not be willing to take that same risk.

Sorry, I'm probably doing a pretty poor job of explaining myself, you would have fallen into the deferral category.

https://www.cpsbc.ca/files/pdf/PHO-Guidance-COVID-19-vaccines-contraindications-and-deferrals-2021-09-15.pdf

I agree though that your experience sounded poor. I have mechanisms and clinics here, specifically for individuals like you, that need to get a vaccine in a setting monitored by an allergist. It's too bad they couldn't offer that to you.

100-999 is super low.... like insanely. I bet there are more than that.

I'd refer to my PDF. Obviously I'm not advising people to listen to me, consult your doctor. Just sharing the guidance from our health authority and the list is essentially nothing. PEG and polysorbate 80 being insanely inert. Good screening tool: Do you brush your teeth and eat ice cream ever? If the answer is yes you aren't truly medically exempt for one of the vaccines!

*Note there is a difference between deferral and contraindication.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Yes, I'm not minimizing others experiences. Nor saying it's not difficult or scary. You were able to get the vaccine though, keep in mind. The key IS that there are multiple options, I agree

But these are the only currently accepted contraindications; 'History of an anaphylactic reaction to components of both mRNA and adenovirus vector vaccine (i.e., polyethylene glycol and polysorbate 80)'. That's it.

Neither are substances that people generally have anaphylaxis to. Hence my estimate there might be only 100's of true qualifications, for the first dose at least

This article claims 5 million people had anaphylaxis to the first vaccine shot though many did get a second shot. That is a lot higher than 100s.

What Are The Medical Exemptions For Not Getting A Covid-19 Vaccine?

Many people have claimed that they are medically exempt from Covid-19 vaccination. But for virtually all of them, this isn't true.

www.forbes.com

 

[BrianLo]

This article claims 5 million people had anaphylaxis to the first vaccine shot though many did get a second shot. That is a lot higher than 100s.

What Are The Medical Exemptions For Not Getting A Covid-19 Vaccine?

Many people have claimed that they are medically exempt from Covid-19 vaccination. But for virtually all of them, this isn't true.

www.forbes.com

Again, I'm talking about the first dose. No one has ever had an mRNA vaccine before.

I know it's pedantic, but it's impossible to claim anaphylaxis to something you've never had. NOT that one can't be anaphylactic.

Also 5 In A Million, not 5 million. So for those 1648 individuals in the US (extrapolating), many could still qualify to complete their series with an alternative product, monitored by an allergist. Hence... hundreds maybe was an over-estimate.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Do they wear masks while they’re sleeping?

My neighbor (wife) got Covid last year and her husband and daughter didn’t catch it despite living in the same house, and that was before vaccines. He slept in the guest room for a few weeks after she was diagnosed but they must have shared a room while she was contagious for a few days before she tested positive. They cooked and ate separately, spent a lot of time outdoors, and basically just stayed as far apart as they could in a single family home.

Seems to be a little luck involved with our immune systems on who gets sick and who doesn’t, on cruise ships in 2020 when 20% of the passengers were getting sick the other 80% still didn’t get sick despite sharing a confined space with literally hundreds of sick people.

I’ve had a dozen coworkers test positive over the last 6 months, thankfully I’ve stayed healthy so far despite working very closely with them (knock on wood), not sure whether to credit Pfizer, my immune system, or both.

 

[Bullseye1967]

Again, I'm talking about the first dose. No one has ever had an mRNA vaccine before.

I know it's pedantic, but it's impossible to claim anaphylaxis to something you've never had. NOT that one can't be anaphylactic.

Also 5 In A Million, not 5 million. So for those 1648 individuals in the US (extrapolating), many could still qualify to complete their series with an alternative product, monitored by an allergist. Hence... hundreds maybe was an over-estimate.

Reading without my glasses on.

 

[BrianLo]

Reading without my glasses on.

Ha, no worries! I was actually shocked when you posted that and did a double take

 

[StarWarsGirl]

Also 5 In A Million, not 5 million. So for those 1648 individuals in the US (extrapolating), many could still qualify to complete their series with an alternative product, monitored by an allergist. Hence... hundreds maybe was an over-estimate.

And here we have the problem... they're so controlled here in the US that allergists can't get the shots for monitoring.

Typically, if I wanted a vaccine (other than the flu shot since I know I can safely get that) I would go to my allergist. He would skin test me, and then if I had no reaction, they would administer the vaccine and monitor.

For this shot, you're supposed to get it in a hospital. We'll, most hospital clinics closed down in May. I was on a wait-list to get in...and they shut down.

So only one hospital (Hopkins) had them, but my allergist said absolutely do not get J&J or Pfizer, only get Moderna. Hopkins only had Pfizer and J&J unless I wanted to go to their campus that wasn't in a particularly safe area in Baltimore.

And then I asked my doctor's office about doing it (my primary care doctor died in June...I've begged them to just reassign me a primary care doctor and they've refused). They wouldn't do it either because of the allergic reaction history.

So I finally went to Walgreens and fudged my medical history so they'd give it to me, and I loaded up on the Benadryl (because to your original point, how would I know if I'd react? Didn't know I'd react to that other vaccine. Didn't know the dyes in my thyroid vaccine would make me break out in hives. Didn't know I was allergic to papaya until I had a papaya green tea at Panera. It was a very distinct possibility). Then I went home and waited for hours near my epi pen. It was needlessly terrifying and I don't recommend it for anyone. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have done some more insisting with my doctor's office that we find a way to get it done at their associated hospital.

And I did get tired of all of the judgement about why I hadn't had it done or what I was doing walking around unvaccinated and still doing stuff, which is why I will fight tooth and nail to defend people who say they have a medical exemption, because we're the ones who want the vaccine and not the problem.

 

[Bullseye1967]

My neighbor (wife) got Covid last year and her husband and daughter didn’t catch it despite living in the same house, and that was before vaccines. He slept in the guest room for a few weeks after she was diagnosed but they must have shared a room while she was contagious for a few days before she tested positive. They cooked and ate separately, spent a lot of time outdoors, and basically just stayed as far apart as they could in a single family home.

Seems to be a little luck involved with our immune systems on who gets sick and who doesn’t, on cruise ships in 2020 when 20% of the passengers were getting sick the other 80% still didn’t get sick despite sharing a confined space with literally hundreds of sick people.

I’ve had a dozen coworkers test positive over the last 6 months, thankfully I’ve stayed healthy so far despite working very closely with them (knock on wood), not sure whether to credit Pfizer, my immune system, or both.

A friend of mine who happened to be the major over me when I was an Army Captain (he is a full bird Colonel now) currently is on day 20 of testing positive for Covid-19. His mother who lived with him died of Covid-19 yesterday. His adult daughter and son both caught it from one of them before anyone knew he had it. His wife who was taking care of everyone still is negative. I am just amazed. None of them are vaccinated

 

[BrianLo]

And here we have the problem... they're so controlled here in the US that allergists can't get the shots for monitoring.

Typically, if I wanted a vaccine (other than the flu shot since I know I can safely get that) I would go to my allergist. He would skin test me, and then if I had no reaction, they would administer the vaccine and monitor.

For this shot, you're supposed to get it in a hospital. We'll, most hospital clinics closed down in May. I was on a wait-list to get in...and they shut down.

So only one hospital (Hopkins) had them, but my allergist said absolutely do not get J&J or Pfizer, only get Moderna. Hopkins only had Pfizer and J&J unless I wanted to go to their campus that wasn't in a particularly safe area in Baltimore.

And then I asked my doctor's office about doing it (my primary care doctor died in June...I've begged them to just reassign me a primary care doctor and they've refused). They wouldn't do it either because of the allergic reaction history.

So I finally went to Walgreens and fudged my medical history so they'd give it to me, and I loaded up on the Benadryl (because to your original point, how would I know if I'd react? Didn't know I'd react to that other vaccine. Didn't know the dyes in my thyroid vaccine would make me break out in hives. Didn't know I was allergic to papaya until I had a papaya green tea at Panera. It was a very distinct possibility). Then I went home and waited for hours near my epi pen. It was needlessly terrifying and I don't recommend it for anyone. If I had it to do all over again, I probably would have done some more insisting with my doctor's office that we find a way to get it done at their associated hospital.

And I did get tired of all of the judgement about why I hadn't had it done or what I was doing walking around unvaccinated and still doing stuff, which is why I will fight tooth and nail to defend people who say they have a medical exemption, because we're the ones who want the vaccine and not the problem.

And just so you know, I am defending you too. You aren't / weren't the problem! We definitely have a different system here, I'm sorry and did read along months ago for your plight.

It's the people who are using your story to excuse themselves from the vaccine, that I'm also targeting. I wasn't intending to sound board against you, but with you.

 

[Angel Ariel]

I think this was a false narrative spread when the vaccines were initially much more effective than traditionally expected. Almost every other vaccine has required high 80's/low 90's% vaccination of the total population. No where is even close to that.

Everyone keeps throwing their hands up that there is no way to achieve success, while we still congregate 100's (or 1000's) of unvaccinated snot-lickers in schools and wonder why eradication hasn't been achieved.

We'll get there, but the Pediatric approval is absolutely critical. I truly believe childhood spread of COVID-19 was undersold. It doesn't track with every other viral illness, ever. Kids are a massive, massive reservoir.

Agreed with the bolded, especially with delta.

 

[DC0703]

Religion is a protected class, so employers can't discriminate against someone because of their religious background. Employers have to make accomodations. I posted earlier that accomodation could be unpaid leave, and an employee doesn't have to like the accomodations, but it's a protected class, and any employer that tries to challenge here opens themselves up to a lawsuit.

The problem is that most people claiming religious exemption are doing it simply because they do not want to vaccinate. There may be some smaller religions out there that do have rules related to medication usage, and that should be protected, but most people seem to be simply looking for loopholes. For example, if someone is Catholic, it would be hard to justify a "deeply held belief" when the Pope is vaccinated and openly states that getting vaccinated is the correct moral choice. Then there's the question of whether they have been vaccinated prior for other diseases (which most people have) or received other medical care that is similar in nature. I have no problem with religious exemption if it is sincere and clearly stated within a religious doctrine. I have little patience for those mining the Bible for something that would fit the bill; those beliefs should be challenged by the employer.

 

[Bullseye1967]

The problem is that most people claiming religious exemption are doing it simply because they do not want to vaccinate. There may be some smaller religions out there that do have rules related to medication usage, and that should be protected, but most people seem to be simply looking for loopholes. For example, if someone is Catholic, it would be hard to justify a "deeply held belief" when the Pope is vaccinated and openly states that getting vaccinated is the correct moral choice. Then there's the question of whether they have been vaccinated prior for other diseases (which most people have) or received other medical care that is similar in nature. I have no problem with religious exemption if it is sincere and clearly stated within a religious doctrine. I have little patience for those mining the Bible for something that would fit the bill; those beliefs should be challenged by the employer.

A CNA that took care of my FiL at his nursing home was fired after her religious exemption was denied. Not going to lie I was really mad. She was a really good person and gave him great care. She was 7th day adventist. I thought she should have gotten a religious exemption. Then I found out her religion fully backed vaccination. She was just anti vax. I have no idea what her true reason was biu I have no pity for her.

 

[MisterPenguin]

You can claim that you have a deeply held religious belief that you've been divinely anointed to make death threats against people you don't like, and neither the Free Speech clause nor the Free Exercise of Religion Clause of the U.S. Constitution will protect you from criminal prosecution.

Rights aren't inviolable when in conflict of other rights (e.g., to be free from death threats).

There is no U.S. Constitutional protection from states mandating vaccinations against a clear public threat.

The only way to be guaranteed that your state can't mandate a vaccine against a present dangerous virus is to amend your state constitution to give all citizens of your state freedom from mandated vaccines.

A few states have already removed religious exemption from vaccine mandates for school children.

 

[Timmay]

I'll stop yelling at the kids on my lawn in a minute, but allow me this one rant. I lived overseas for most of the period of 2008-2014, and I was sent to Afghanistan twice during that period. So, imagine my shock when I returned to the US in 2014 to find that the Taliban-style beard had become a popular fashion choice in the US (it wasn't in Europe at the time, at least when I lived there). This would be like WWII veterans returning home to find that German army uniforms were in style.

I thought, well, at least this look will probably die out soon... and yet here we are in 2021.

All right kids, I'm going back inside to watch Lawrence Welk on the television machine. You stay off my lawn!

No, it wouldn’t be like that at all. Being in the military, you should know why that type of beard became popular here. It was because of all those super-macho special operators sporting those darn fine beards, in an effort to “fit in” with the population.

 

[DisneyCane]

If there is any kind of vaccine mandate, there shouldn't be loophole exemptions for religious beliefs. If you claim a religious exemption then you should have to prove that you have never taken a medication of any kind in your life. This statement is coming from somebody who doesn't agree with there being mandates but if they are going to exist they should apply to everybody. For medical exemptions, it should also require at least two doctors to agree and one should be a doctor who the person has never visited before and is chosen at random by the entity with the mandate.

I still disagree with mandated COVID vaccines and strongly believe that any mandate (from an employer, business or government entity) should have a frequent testing alternative. If the argument is the mandates are necessary to reduce spread, an employee who gets tested daily will be less likely to spread the virus than one who is vaccinated and never tested.

 

[DisneyCane]

Now we have a story of a couple being kicked out of a restaurant for wearing a mask to protect their child. This is incredible.

Couple was kicked out of Texas restaurant for wearing masks to protect at-risk son

Natalie Wester and her husband wore masks inside a Texas restaurant to protect their newborn son who has cystic fibrosis — so the owner kicked them out.

www.google.com

I think (hope) places like this are in the minority and may be doing it just to get free publicity.

The parents are the morons here, not the restaurant. They have a high risk child that they are trying to protect and they decided to dine indoors and protect their child by wearing a mask while waiting for their food. Even if wearing a surgical mask over a beard was very protective for the wearer, they were going to be unmasked while eating. I guess the COVID stays away while there is food on the table?

Some of you are so easily manipulated by statements like "wearing a mask to protect their child." These poor people were just trying to protect their child by going on a date night to an environment that is what many consider to be high risk. A pox on the evil restaurant owners that wouldn't let them protect their child.

Maybe the restaurant policy is to point out the nonsensical absurdity of the earlier mandates that required masks until seated or until food or drinks were delivered as if the table or the food repelled the COVID.

 

[Kevin_W]

A couple weeks old, but a good discussion of the vaccine effectiveness vs Delta from a CDC-published study:

 

[Chip Chipperson]

The parents are the morons here, not the restaurant. They have a high risk child that they are trying to protect and they decided to dine indoors and protect their child by wearing a mask while waiting for their food. Even if wearing a surgical mask over a beard was very protective for the wearer, they were going to be unmasked while eating. I guess the COVID stays away while there is food on the table?

Some of you are so easily manipulated by statements like "wearing a mask to protect their child." These poor people were just trying to protect their child by going on a date night to an environment that is what many consider to be high risk. A pox on the evil restaurant owners that wouldn't let them protect their child.

Maybe the restaurant policy is to point out the nonsensical absurdity of the earlier mandates that required masks until seated or until food or drinks were delivered as if the table or the food repelled the COVID.

It is possible for both the pare to and the restaurant owner to be wrong here. The parents are wrong for taking that risk with a high-risk child at home and the restaurant owner is wrong for being so dumb as to ban masks entirely.

 

[Heppenheimer]

If there is any kind of vaccine mandate, there shouldn't be loophole exemptions for religious beliefs. If you claim a religious exemption then you should have to prove that you have never taken a medication of any kind in your life. This statement is coming from somebody who doesn't agree with there being mandates but if they are going to exist they should apply to everybody. For medical exemptions, it should also require at least two doctors to agree and one should be a doctor who the person has never visited before and is chosen at random by the entity with the mandate.

I still disagree with mandated COVID vaccines and strongly believe that any mandate (from an employer, business or government entity) should have a frequent testing alternative. If the argument is the mandates are necessary to reduce spread, an employee who gets tested daily will be less likely to spread the virus than one who is vaccinated and never tested.

From what I understand, very few religions have long-standing objections to vaccination. Some people are just looking for any excuse they can find. I know some churches have put out official statements saying that because vaccines are not against the religion, they will not support exemption letters. The pope has flat out stated that it is the duty for every eligible Catholic to get vaccinated to protect those who can't currently.

I have been asked to provide medical exemption letters for both masks and vaccines. I have agreed to neither. Amongst my patients, I have exactly one who I have against COVID-19 vaccination, and this is because she has a very rare and and unpredictable immune regulatory disorder. But because she is unemployed on medical disability anyway, she won't need an exemption letter.