TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Sick does not equal = contagious.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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That's what the R0 adjusts for.
Or did you think that in this context 'sick' didn't mean 'sick with COVID' and you want to make a point that someone with the sniffles might have had a cold?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I’m saying that I could be contagious and not know it because I’m not “sick.”
Perhaps those brainy IT teams can dream up incorporating the vaccine passports into the infamous Magic Bands!
Ayla
Well-Known Member
That's the latest shouting point/misinformation coming out of the anti-vax lunatics. They don't care whether it's true or not, as long as they can try to discredit the vax.
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BigE42984
New Member
The CDC handed them that point on a silver platter by saying vaccinated people can carry the same viral load, without providing additional context.
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
I’m as pro-vaxx as can be, but the messaging and communication about all of this between the CDC, the FDA, the Biden administration, and Dr. Fauci has been awful. It’s almost like they don’t communicate at all, and one will say something that seems to catch the others completely off-guard.
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Incomudro
Well-Known Member
I don't have the answer, and I don't make policy.
In contrast to many here who are convinced that they have all of the answers.
I also have a life, and do not live to respond back to every response to my comments. I never look at these boards on my phone for instance.
What I can tell you with certainty however is that acting in a manner that is directly in keeping with the the way your opposition believes you to be - is not the way to go.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
The CDC points out that research is ongoing. Here’s a deep dive on the topic of asymptomatic spread. One takeaway:
“Some studies showed that those without symptoms had similar initial viral loads — the number of viral particles present in a throat swab — when compared with people with symptoms. But asymptomatic people seem to clear the virus faster and are infectious for a shorter period.”
A lot of the folks you see still wearing masks in public are vaccinated. It still makes sense to do everything possible to protect others. But a false equivalency showing that vaccinated folks are somehow driving the pandemic is a stretch at best.
www.nature.com
“Some studies showed that those without symptoms had similar initial viral loads — the number of viral particles present in a throat swab — when compared with people with symptoms. But asymptomatic people seem to clear the virus faster and are infectious for a shorter period.”
A lot of the folks you see still wearing masks in public are vaccinated. It still makes sense to do everything possible to protect others. But a false equivalency showing that vaccinated folks are somehow driving the pandemic is a stretch at best.
What the data say about asymptomatic COVID infections
People without symptoms can pass on the virus, but estimating their contribution to outbreaks is challenging.
www.nature.com
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
A fact check on some of the claims being made about asymptomatic spread:
Fact check: CDC didn't say COVID-19 vaccinated are 'superspreaders', vaccines failing
A Natural News article being shared on social media falsely claims the CDC said vaccines are failing and the vaccinated are super-spreaders.
www.usatoday.com
Chi84
Premium Member
No one has all the answers, but in my opinion it's not enough for people to criticize governmental responses without providing any viable alternatives. I'm aware that many people feel it's their right to do so - I just find it unproductive in the context of a discussion.
The fact remains that policy must be made, and where a novel virus is concerned, it's made by people who likewise don't have all the answers. Doing nothing is not an option, and just about any action will upset a significant number of people. If government policy is not in accordance with what most people want, the people making that policy will be voted out. From what I'm seeing, right now most people do not want the government to just throw up its hands and do nothing - exactly what should be done will always be a tough call.
Incomudro
Well-Known Member
It's not my responsibility to come up with viable alternatives, as I said - I don't make policy.
I can only tell you that "they" have just driven the wedge deeper and given the detractors more of the "evidence" as they see it.
Absolutely.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
You are falsely believing these people are acting in some sort of rational manner. They are not. Again, any action or lack of action will be twisted as proof. People said they wanted an FDA approved vaccine, they got one, so they twisted it to be that the vaccine was not really approved. These are people running on feed stores because they’re convinced horse dewormer is some sort of viral miracle cure. Biden could go full on following DeSantis repealing and prohibiting mitigations and it would still be proof of the sinister plot and lies.
Zummi Gummi
Pioneering the Universe Within!
That’s the problem. At this point, you’re not dealing with rational actors, as we said in a game theory class I once took in college. Once it comes down to your job or the vaccine, a lot of reluctant people will ultimately get the shot, if polling can be believed. The ones left- I just don’t know how you get through to them, unless you make it exceedingly difficult for them to travel or partake in any sort of leisure activity like eating out, going to the movies, etc.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
Except that the “they” you refer to are not taking action to create a wedge or drive it deeper. “They” are just trying to solve the problem, which is what a sane and rational society would expect them to do.
The wedges and division are being deliberately driven by a sector of the public who will always seek wedges and division on this issue no matter what. It’s like a dog digging in its heels refusing to take a bath or a petulant child refusing to eat their vegetables.
Blanket criticism based on moving goalposts will not provide a rational path past this crisis. Any rational public health policy to combat a global health threat must proceed in spite of the naysayers and not be framed to appease an irrational minority.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Sorry, but you are wrong here. If the government does nothing to try to prove that they are the opposite of what the “opposition” thinks then nothing gets done either and covid rages on unchecked. There are 2 options, do nothing and nothing changes (we tried that since April and it was a complete failure) or do something that upsets a minority of people but may actually get us closer to the end of this. It’s an easy choice to me. It comes with political risk, but we didn’t elect a guy to only do things that are politically safe. Good for him for choosing the more aggressive action that comes with some political risk but is for the greater good.
You are speaking in terms of politics. For the current administration their actions only deepened the divide that exists, that is true, but at this point almost anyone opposed to those actions was already opposed to the current administration anyway and most of them blindly opposed to any action they make so there isn’t much lost. In polling I have seen the majority of the country favors these actions so it’s not unpopular across the board. That wasn’t true back in April when the majority opposed any form of vaccine requirements, but people’s opinions have evolved as more people are vaccinated and we have come to the realization that the people unvaccinated aren’t planning to get it done. What you fail to realize is there are many people who were unhappy with the current administration for not taking enough action on covid so while some may view this as a negative and overreach many view it as a step in the right direction and a necessary step.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The wedge is deeper but who cares at this point. Can you honestly say that the vast majority of people who are opposed to this action were ever going to support the Biden Administration on just about anything or were going to come around and make the choice to get vaccinated on their own? That’s a pipe dream. Any action the administration takes is going to be viewed negatively by the opposition and if they did nothing to try to appease those people as you suggest, come the next election the same people would be attacking them on not taking any action to stop or slow covid. The sad part of American politics today is the detractors don’t need any “evidence” they would just make stuff up anyway.
I prefer a government that takes actions that are in the best interest of the nation as opposed to being afraid to take action because of political backlash. I think the fundamental disagreement may be that I am not at all happy with where we are on the covid front. The status quo is unacceptable to me so action was warranted and necessary. If you believe the status quo is fine then I can understand feeling the actions are unnecessary. That’s the biggest difference.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
The English experiment continues:
England vaccine passport plans ditched, Sajid Javid says
The health secretary rules out the scheme for nightclubs and large events, following much criticism.
www.bbc.co.uk
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
The winter Covid plan will be marked by delay, confusion and ignorance. Sound familiar? | Gabriel Scally
We now know so much more about the virus. But we are failing to act on the knowledge
www.theguardian.com
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