Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Polkadotdress]

Life is full of choices. People will poo or get off the pot. You don’t have to get the booster but businesses don’t have to let you in either. We are done messing around.

I think that would be difficult for businesses to oversee, as “technically” you are fully vaxx’d after the 2-dose series (or single JJ).

 

[Timmay]

Source please.

It was from last summer. An internet search should provide a lot of sources.

Look, some of the numbers were being inflated. Not to any significant amount in the end by any means. Colorado had to reclassify just over 10% of its reported Covid deaths due to some of this. People took the info and ran with it, creating what I think was a narrative that it was happening a whole lot more than it was. One could also counter that the overall number of Covid cases has been undercounted as well, as many experts have suggested.

 

[Touchdown]

It was from last summer. An internet search should provide a lot of sources.

Look, some of the numbers were being inflated. Not to any significant amount in the end by any means. Colorado had to reclassify just over 10% of its reported Covid deaths due to some of this. People took the info and ran with it, creating what I think was a narrative that it was happening a whole lot more than it was. One could also counter that the overall number of Covid cases has been undercounted as well, as many experts have suggested.

Source please.

more direct: the burden is not on me to provide it. This is a false statement and shows you know nothing about how hospitals are paid. Stop posting lies, or prove it.

 

[Timmay]

And risk being prosecuted for insurance fraud. The person who actually has the authority to apply a questionable diagnosis (the attending physician) to the chart has little to directly gain from doing so and a whole lot more to loose.

I’m glad you see it that way. Unfortunately not all do. When CMS reports over 50 billion in costs annually due to fraud, we know it’s happening. I’ve seen and helped investigate it. If there’s an opportunity, people will take it.

 

[Timmay]

Source please.

more direct: the burden is not on me to provide it. This is a false statement and shows you know nothing about how hospitals are paid. Stop posting lies, or prove it.

I was a hospital administrator for over 15 years. I know exactly how hospitals are paid, and where the majority of reimbursement comes from.

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths - Washington Examiner

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield agreed that some hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths as they do deaths for other diseases.“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[danlb_2000]

Source please.

more direct: the burden is not on me to provide it. This is a false statement and shows you know nothing about how hospitals are paid. Stop posting lies, or prove it.

The Colorado thing appears to be true, but this was in May of 2020 and they corrected their numbers. The debate over miscounting COVID patients it pointless. Yes, there were probably some over counts, but I am sure there were also some under counts, but the excess death numbers support that the COVID death counts are not overstated.

Did Colorado's coronavirus death toll really just drop by nearly 300? Here's what changed.

Colorado public health officials on Friday announced a change to how COVID-19 deaths are counted in the state.

www.coloradoan.com

 

[DisneyFan32]

It was from last summer. An internet search should provide a lot of sources.

Look, some of the numbers were being inflated. Not to any significant amount in the end by any means. Colorado had to reclassify just over 10% of its reported Covid deaths due to some of this. People took the info and ran with it, creating what I think was a narrative that it was happening a whole lot more than it was. One could also counter that the overall number of Covid cases has been undercounted as well, as many experts have suggested.

I hope the current Delta variant wave will be ending soon before Thanksgiving and Christmas as federal transportation lift mask mandate before Thanksgiving or Christmas.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’m glad you see it that way. Unfortunately not all do. When CMS reports over 50 billion in costs annually due to fraud, we know it’s happening. I’ve seen and helped investigate it. If there’s an opportunity, people will take it.

But those are usually cases where someone directly benefits from the fraud. DME suppliers are the biggest offenders. It's why I, as a primary care provider, need to actually write the prescriptions for things like orthotics, prosthetics, compression stockings and diabetic shoes, even though I have next to no formal training in the specifications for these things.

For an attending physician to add a fraudulent COVID diagnosis, it will only add to their workload without them seeing any immediate tangible benefit. Hospital administrators can not alter medical records nor write death certificates, and ultimately, this is where the numbers come from.

Either way, any questionable numbers are at the very margins, at most.

 

[maui2k7]

I hope the current Delta variant wave will be ending soon before Thanksgiving and Christmas as federal transportation lift mask mandate before Thanksgiving or Christmas.

I would not get your hopes up on the federal rules on transportation changing before 2022.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Same rules will likely apply. No cruises, many employers will require it so limited places to work, many public venues may start to require it too. People will be free to decide not to be vaccinated but that choice comes with consequences and I think most people will end up doing it rather than have their lifestyle limited and their livelihood reduced.

In many areas of the country this is not going to happen or there will be all out riots.

Life is full of choices. People will poo or get off the pot. You don’t have to get the booster but businesses don’t have to let you in either. We are done messing around.

The other side is done messing around too.... this isn’t going to be pretty.

 

[Touchdown]

I was a hospital administrator for over 15 years. I know exactly how hospitals are paid, and where the majority of reimbursement comes from.

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths - Washington Examiner

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield agreed that some hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths as they do deaths for other diseases.“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Here’s the full quote:


When it comes to death reporting though, I mean, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate. In our national health statistics group here in Hyattsville, we review all those death certificates. So I think it’s probably less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say they’re not some cases. I do think though, when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues for individuals that get discharged there could be some play in that for sure.

Also since September of 2020, I’m sure you are aware that in order to claim someone has COVID 19 for billing purposes they must have a positive PCR in the last 14 days prior to admission. So your point is still wrong. Unless you disagree that a positive PCR is diagnostic for having Covid 19 then there is no way to game the system at least in the last year.

here’s the full transcript:

House Coronavirus Response Hearing Full Transcript July 31

Chairman Clyburn: (00:00) Let me also make a few reminders about hybrid hearings. For those members appearing in person, you will be able to see members appear

www.google.com

And here’s Medicare guidelines:

https://www.cms.gov/files/document/se20015.pdf

 

[Timmay]

But those are usually cases where someone directly benefits from the fraud. DME suppliers are the biggest offenders. It's why I, as a primary care provider, need to actually write the prescriptions for things like orthotics, prosthetics, compression stockings and diabetic shoes, even though I have next to no formal training in the specifications for these things.

For an attending physician to add a fraudulent COVID diagnosis, it will only add to their workload without them seeing any immediate tangible benefit. Hospital administrators can not alter medical records nor write death certificates, and ultimately, this is where the numbers come from.

Either way, any questionable numbers are at the very margins, at most.

I think we are mostly saying the same thing. There have been cases of administrators pressuring physicians. The impact is minimal. Again, some have taken the known instances and blown it up it something it wasn’t.

 

[Timmay]

Here’s the full quote:


When it comes to death reporting though, I mean, ultimately, it’s how the physician defines it in the death certificate. In our national health statistics group here in Hyattsville, we review all those death certificates. So I think it’s probably less operable in the cause of death, although I won’t say they’re not some cases. I do think though, when it comes to hospital reimbursement issues for individuals that get discharged there could be some play in that for sure.

Also since September of 2020, I’m sure you are aware that in order to claim someone has COVID 19 for billing purposes they must have a positive PCR in the last 14 days prior to admission. So your point is still wrong. Unless you disagree that a positive PCR is diagnostic for having Covid 19 then there is no way to game the system at least in the last year.

here’s the full transcript:

House Coronavirus Response Hearing Full Transcript July 31

Chairman Clyburn: (00:00) Let me also make a few reminders about hybrid hearings. For those members appearing in person, you will be able to see members appear

www.google.com

And here’s Medicare guidelines:

https://www.cms.gov/files/document/se20015.pdf

Please don’t. You’re creating a straw man. Go back and read everything I’ve written. I’ve repeatedly said the impacts are minimal, and it’s happening on only a small scale.

 

[Touchdown]

Please don’t. You’re creating a straw man. Go back and read everything I’ve written. I’ve repeatedly said the impacts are minimal, and it’s happening on only a small scale.

Now I’m confused, are you agreeing that Covid deaths and hospitalizations are not falsely elevated?

 

[Heppenheimer]

Please don’t. You’re creating a straw man. Go back and read everything I’ve written. I’ve repeatedly said the impacts are minimal, and it’s happening on only a small scale.

I think we're reacting more to another poster who brought up the old "massive fraud" allegation within the past 12 hours.

EDIT: Looks like those posts were removed.

 

[Vaughn4380]

EDIT: Looks like those posts were removed.

This has happened a lot today and is making it difficult to follow some threads.

 

[mmascari]

This is the problem with missing context, implied meaning, and prior talking points in the spotlight.

CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield did admit in a 2020 House hearing that hospitals have a monetary gain if they inflate covid numbers. That's disturbing. Why would he say that .

This leaves out context around the statement. The implied meaning people read is "COVID hospital numbers are overstated, it's not as big a deal as people think". That may or may not be the desired message, there's no way to tell without any more context. It's definitely how people read it.

CMS reimburses hospitals at up to more than twice the rate for Covid patients. Like it or not, it does create an opportunity for hospitals to work the system.

Without any more context, this post appears to double down on that statement. It may not mean to say, but people are still reading "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal". This may be a comment intended for a specific technical component of billing, but it was in reply to an implied conspiracy statement. This makes it look like it's really about that statement and not just some small technical detail.

It was from last summer. An internet search should provide a lot of sources.

Look, some of the numbers were being inflated. Not to any significant amount in the end by any means. Colorado had to reclassify just over 10% of its reported Covid deaths due to some of this. People took the info and ran with it, creating what I think was a narrative that it was happening a whole lot more than it was. One could also counter that the overall number of Covid cases has been undercounted as well, as many experts have suggested.

Deflection to "just search on your own". Double down with a very old stat for what looks like an isolated early issue. No extra context. This is reinforcing what people read before: "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".

I’m glad you see it that way. Unfortunately not all do. When CMS reports over 50 billion in costs annually due to fraud, we know it’s happening. I’ve seen and helped investigate it. If there’s an opportunity, people will take it.

Double down again, hospital cheat, to a huge dollar value. Other posters are definitely hearing "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal". There's no other context to suggest otherwise.

I was a hospital administrator for over 15 years. I know exactly how hospitals are paid, and where the majority of reimbursement comes from.

CDC director acknowledges hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths - Washington Examiner

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Robert Redfield agreed that some hospitals have a monetary incentive to overcount coronavirus deaths as they do deaths for other diseases.“I think you’re correct in that we’ve seen this in other disease processes, too. Really, in the HIV...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Statement of authority, post from an "examiner" source, incomplete context around the information. No extra context about the impact. Everyone reading this is reacting as if it's screaming at them: "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".

I think we are mostly saying the same thing. There have been cases of administrators pressuring physicians. The impact is minimal. Again, some have taken the known instances and blown it up it something it wasn’t.

Some context and walk back. This seems to be the message you meant. But, it's clearly not what people were hearing. As evidence, all the replies to the unstated but implied message of "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".

Please don’t. You’re creating a straw man. Go back and read everything I’ve written. I’ve repeatedly said the impacts are minimal, and it’s happening on only a small scale.

The last post, and this one included the "minimal" and that it doesn't really impact any stats in any meaningful way.

Which all means, you probably didn't mean to amplify a conspiracy theory that "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal", but that's exactly what everyone was hearing in your posts. The other replies all represent replies to that implied statement, pointing out that it's wrong.

 

[Timmay]

Now I’m confused, are you agreeing that Covid deaths and hospitalizations are not falsely elevated?

Not to a point where statistics are even close to being significantly changed. It has happened, but not on a scale some have claimed, not by a long shot. Again, please read everything I have posted today. And honestly, a retraction on the accusation of posting lies would be appreciated.

 

[lewisc]

Excess deaths are up. I guess it's possible some hospitals might have upcoded a few cases BUT, since excess deaths are up, the effect is less then insignificant.

 

[Timmay]

This is the problem with missing context, implied meaning, and prior talking points in the spotlight.


This leaves out context around the statement. The implied meaning people read is "COVID hospital numbers are overstated, it's not as big a deal as people think". That may or may not be the desired message, there's no way to tell without any more context. It's definitely how people read it.


Without any more context, this post appears to double down on that statement. It may not mean to say, but people are still reading "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal". This may be a comment intended for a specific technical component of billing, but it was in reply to an implied conspiracy statement. This makes it look like it's really about that statement and not just some small technical detail.


Deflection to "just search on your own". Double down with a very old stat for what looks like an isolated early issue. No extra context. This is reinforcing what people read before: "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".


Double down again, hospital cheat, to a huge dollar value. Other posters are definitely hearing "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal". There's no other context to suggest otherwise.


Statement of authority, post from an "examiner" source, incomplete context around the information. No extra context about the impact. Everyone reading this is reacting as if it's screaming at them: "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".


Some context and walk back. This seems to be the message you meant. But, it's clearly not what people were hearing. As evidence, all the replies to the unstated but implied message of "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal".


The last post, and this one included the "minimal" and that it doesn't really impact any stats in any meaningful way.

Which all means, you probably didn't mean to amplify a conspiracy theory that "Hospitals cheat, COVID hospital numbers are overstated, COVID is not a big deal", but that's exactly what everyone was hearing in your posts. The other replies all represent replies to that implied statement, pointing out that it's wrong.

I’m not going to get into an argument over this. If “everyone” was hearing that, I apologize. The fact is I know first hand how unscrupulous some hospital administrators can be. My intent was to simply point out that there was an increased opportunity. I can see that some didn’t understand that.