Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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mmascari

Well-Known Member
Do you think the CDC is deliberately ignoring this unknown in issuing their guidance? I don't think it would hurt to clarify this. I suspect the answer could revolve around community vaccination rates.
It probably does depend on community vaccination rate and community transmission rates. Along with how many unvaccinated people are present. Just one or a whole bunch? There's probably all kinds of nuance to the answer, there usually is.

Yes, I think they're intentionally avoiding providing guidance on this scenario. Following the guidance, this scenario isn't supposed to happen.

If the question is asked, I would expect the first answer to be a dodge too, one where they say something like "unvaccinated people should be wearing masks in public indoor locations". Which obviously doesn't answer the question. A good interviewer should ask the question, and then follow up and ask it again when it's dodged. Get an actual answer. Since that's the scenario people really care about.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Do you think the CDC is deliberately ignoring this unknown in issuing their guidance?
Yes. The CDC completely changed their reccomendatiom overnight regarding masks for vaccinated individuals. I don’t beleive there was any new study to back up that change... but maybe there was?
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, cases in the southeast are definitely rising; especially in Florida where Disney and Universal are located. Although three of the four members in my family are vaccinated, one can't be due to age, we're all still going to wear our masks when we have to go indoors anyway. And while standing at a checkout, or somewhere similar, if somebody gets too close I will just politely ask them to back up a little bit and provide some space. It's not that hard and I find most people are generally nice. While most reports do say that the vaccine is very effective against the variants and Covid, I would hate to get cocky and accidentally bring it home to my daughter.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
At the end of the day, cases in the southeast are definitely rising; especially in Florida where Disney and Universal are located. Although three of the four members in my family are vaccinated, one can't be due to age, we're all still going to wear our masks when we have to go indoors anyway. And while standing at a checkout, or somewhere similar, if somebody gets too close I will just politely ask them to back up a little bit and provide some space. It's not that hard and I find most people are generally nice. While most reports do say that the vaccine is very effective against the variants and Covid, I would hate to get cocky and accidentally bring it home to my daughter.
It absolutely blows my mind how reckless some people are choosing to be when it comes to their kids. We have a skate park in a residential neighborhood here that had to be closed THREE times last year because parents weren't making their kids follow mask rules and one kid would pick up COVID and give it to a couple of their friends at the skate park. (They all tend to sit in small groups, shoulder-to-shoulder, on the ramps when they're not skating or riding a bike.) These kids even went so far as to destroy a sign the town hung outlining the mask rules.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
It absolutely blows my mind how reckless some people are choosing to be when it comes to their kids. We have a skate park in a residential neighborhood here that had to be closed THREE times last year because parents weren't making their kids follow mask rules and one kid would pick up COVID and give it to a couple of their friends at the skate park. (They all tend to sit in small groups, shoulder-to-shoulder, on the ramps when they're not skating or riding a bike.) These kids even went so far as to destroy a sign the town hung outlining the mask rules.
Wow. I choose a summer camp for my daughter, not much choice due to work, that did just about everything outdoors. And they are also keeping things spaced out well. Even so, I caught my daughter not wearing her mask a couple times due to one excuse or another. Her Sensei's and I nipped that in the butt real quick lol.
 

KrzyKtty

Well-Known Member
But I guess I digressed off my original Disney topic. I guess what I am mostly saying is asking the government to step in at this point is probably moot, especially in Florida. So at this point every family should be taking appropriate precautions for their family based on their vaccination status. It's really all we have control over in relation to Disney. However for those that really feel strongly about the issue, you're always welcome to write Disney a letter. I doubt they will really take it into account a whole lot, but it's not like it hurts anything other than your time.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
It probably does depend on community vaccination rate and community transmission rates. Along with how many unvaccinated people are present. Just one or a whole bunch? There's probably all kinds of nuance to the answer, there usually is.

Yes, I think they're intentionally avoiding providing guidance on this scenario. Following the guidance, this scenario isn't supposed to happen.

If the question is asked, I would expect the first answer to be a dodge too, one where they say something like "unvaccinated people should be wearing masks in public indoor locations". Which obviously doesn't answer the question. A good interviewer should ask the question, and then follow up and ask it again when it's dodged. Get an actual answer. Since that's the scenario people really care about.
That's an extremely low opinion of the CDC, isn't it? When they first issued guidelines, I remember thinking they were erring on the side of caution but followed them because they are the agency tasked with handling the pandemic. Now people are implying the agency has "forgotten" there are immunocompromised people and children under 12 (unlikely), and accusing them of dodging questions and giving people deliberately misleading or dangerously incomplete answers.

What changed? Do you think the CDC was initially a responsible agency that was somehow broken by its inability to deal with a global pandemic? Or is it possible that the data they are looking at supports its current guidance (which can change with changing circumstances) that vaccinated people are protected and don't need to wear masks regardless of coming into contact with unvaccinated people who may not be wearing masks? After all, the purpose of the vaccines is protect one against coming into contact with the virus. So far, I've committed to following the CDC guidance regardless of my personal feelings, but if what happens if we are no longer able to trust them - is it every individual deciding for themselves?
 

Chi84

Premium Member
Yes. The CDC completely changed their reccomendatiom overnight regarding masks for vaccinated individuals. I don’t beleive there was any new study to back up that change... but maybe there was?
If you check out the CDC website, they do cite to their own study that was conducted (I believe) shortly before the revised guidelines.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Oh no doubt! So many things were mucked up from the start by so many.

I am glad it wasn't worse, but wished we had done better. And wish we would continue to do better than some are.
I just wish we would learn why we didn't do better, then do better. Instead, we seem intent on doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different (better) outcome.
 

MorphinePrince

Well-Known Member
The fatigue is real, as Boris said "they just won't any longer, we have to open up". I feel you, we have a new thing to be aware of everyday like the weather and traffic when traveling
Yep. Im over it and as a vaccinated person, I've become quite the Karen lately when it comes to any mention of new restrictions. I feel so sorry for anyone who lives in a place where restrictions are being introduced again. Here is hoping North Carolina doesn't follow suit. Its been refreshing to be back in Florida for two weeks, where things are back to normal. I question why I left tbh.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
I have messaged the moderator with no response about my concerns so I will keep this post vanilla in hopes of not getting banned.

When I am angry - and I am very angry, I move quickly and decisively.

After successfully getting the anti vax side of my family vaccinated for the low cost of a week at the boardwalk grand villa with hoppers, I decided to move onto my wife’s side of the family.

Targets included my mother in law, sister in law and her husband.

For the mother in law it took 5 nights at Aulani she has always wanted to go to Hawaii.

The Sister in laws kid loves potter so that was 4 nights at the hard rock.

These people can be bought.

I think the majority of the “anti vax” crowd isn’t hardcore anti vax , for lack of a better word I just think they are confused.

Two phone calls and 3 more vaccinated people added to the list today.

Unfortunately I can’t afford to do this forever and I hope maybe someone or something with more money than I can take over.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
I have messaged the moderator with no response about my concerns so I will keep this post vanilla in hopes of not getting banned.

When I am angry - and I am very angry, I move quickly and decisively.

After successfully getting the anti vax side of my family vaccinated for the low cost of a week at the boardwalk grand villa with hoppers, I decided to move onto my wife’s side of the family.

Targets included my mother in law, sister in law and her husband.

For the mother in law it took 5 nights at Aulani she has always wanted to go to Hawaii.

The Sister in laws kid loves potter so that was 4 nights at the hard rock.

These people can be bought.

I think the majority of the “anti vax” crowd isn’t hardcore anti vax , for lack of a better word I just think they are confused.

Two phone calls and 3 more vaccinated people added to the list today.

Unfortunately I can’t afford to do this forever and I hope maybe someone or something with more money than I can take over.

I absolutely refuse to get vaccinated.

Of course, a few nights at one of those Polynesian bungalows might change my mind, *wink* *wink*.

I'll send you my personal contact info...

Joking aside, whatever works, whatever needs to be done, do it. Good for you. I continue to be appalled that these sorts of steps are necessary, but it's up to the powers that be to get more people vaccinated, which is why it's so disheartening to see Florida just give up and leave people to do as they will.
 

natatomic

Well-Known Member
Speaking of Disney and masks, I’m bringing my anti vax sister and her husband to the World in September.

I lied to her yesterday and told her she will not be allowed in without proof of vaccination.

Her and her husband are off getting their shot as I type this.

Should I feel bad at all?

Nah screw it I feel great!
We’re they anti-vax or vaccine-hesitant? I have a feeling they were just hesitant, if they actually got the shot. True anti-vax aren’t typically swayed by getting into Disney or not.

If they were genuinely anti-vax, well, I have a feeling they’re lying to you just like you’re lying to them. Either they did their research about Disney and found you weren’t truthful about the “proof.” Or they just got a fake card to fill out on their own, because those are pretty easy to find.

Either way, I wouldn’t be 100% confident that YOU aren’t the one being played.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
That's an extremely low opinion of the CDC, isn't it? When they first issued guidelines, I remember thinking they were erring on the side of caution but followed them because they are the agency tasked with handling the pandemic. Now people are implying the agency has "forgotten" there are immunocompromised people and children under 12 (unlikely), and accusing them of dodging questions and giving people deliberately misleading or dangerously incomplete answers.

What changed? Do you think the CDC was initially a responsible agency that was somehow broken by its inability to deal with a global pandemic? Or is it possible that the data they are looking at supports its current guidance (which can change with changing circumstances) that vaccinated people are protected and don't need to wear masks regardless of coming into contact with unvaccinated people who may not be wearing masks? After all, the purpose of the vaccines is protect one against coming into contact with the virus. So far, I've committed to following the CDC guidance regardless of my personal feelings, but if what happens if we are no longer able to trust them - is it every individual deciding for themselves?
Vaccinated safety when exposed to the virus is a numbers game not a forcefield.

The vaccines work best when there's relatively little exposure. The breakthrough or failing of the vaccine happens when it's overwhelmed.

So, if I take a vaccinated person and expose them to a single person who's infected with the original strain. It's likely the exposure will be low enough to not overwhelm their immune system faster than it can fight back. Grandma visiting one unvaccinated family.

Do that again, but replace that with a person infected with Delta. That's where the developing reporting seems to be. If it really does involve 1,000 times more virus load, it's possible that's enough to infect someone before they can fight it off. We'll see more breakthroughs/lower vaccine protection. I don't think we have enough reporting on this yet.

Do this a third time, but instead of one person, surround the vaccinated person with 100 or 1,000 contagious people. Or, 10 contagious people but for a long time with poor ventilation. Conditions where the vaccinated person is exposed to large quantities of virus.

The CDC guidelines when taken as a whole are designed to prevent vaccinated people from being exposed to large quantities of virus. I trust the guideline and the science behind it. I also trust that the vaccine gives the immune system a huge head start to catch up and fend off the virus, which explains the reduced impact even when infected for vaccinated people.


I think the CDC was reading this very thread, twitter, or the pundits that were all saying vaccination rate would increase if getting vaccinated meant you didn't need to continue with all the same mitigations. Vaccination rate charts seem to indicate a bump when they did it too (which surprised me).

It's a policy question then, not a medical one one how to implement the guidance. Maybe it's not the CDC we should ask, but governors and other legislators about why we're ignoring the CDC guidance with use of the honor system.

In areas of low transmission with high vaccination rates, it doesn't bother me so much that there are cheaters ignoring the guidance and being unmasked and unvaccinated. Simply because there are not many of them. We take my unvaccinated kid to sport stadiums, they mask in the congested areas.

In areas of high transmission with low vaccination rates, as a vaccinated individual I would try to avoid these areas or take extra precautions. I would avoid bringing my kid who isn't vaccinated to any of these areas. For them as unvaccinated, they're not much different than months ago for risk.
 

Trauma

Well-Known Member
We’re they anti-vax or vaccine-hesitant? I have a feeling they were just hesitant, if they actually got the shot. True anti-vax aren’t typically swayed by getting into Disney or not.

If they were genuinely anti-vax, well, I have a feeling they’re lying to you just like you’re lying to them. Either they did their research about Disney and found you weren’t truthful about the “proof.” Or they just got a fake card to fill out on their own, because those are pretty easy to find.
They are vaccine hesitant for sure. Almost everyone I know who is not getting the shot is “hesitant”. I don’t know a single full blown conspiracy theory anti vaxer.

Yes I know they are out there.

My personal opinion is just bribing the “hesitant” may be enough to get to 85% plus in all areas of the country.
 
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