Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

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Touchdown

Well-Known Member
If that were the future, why aren't the deaths in the UK skyrocketing? Even with a lag of deaths behind the cases, surely they'd be showing a massive death rate increase due to Delta by now?
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/nearly-all-covid-deaths-in-us-are-now-among-unvaccinated

Nearly every death in the US due to Covid is happening to the unvaccinated, given enough time, assuming Covid continues to circulate, it will kill enough of them. It may take years, but give it time.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
They should be because while there are no longer restrictions for visiting a state with 10 or more cases per 100k, there are many of us who will not take vacations to places with high rates. This can become an issue again for Florida if the citizens of Florida don't watch out.

There may be a percentage of people who don't want to bring unvaccinated kids to risky places so maybe there would be a small effect to a place like WDW. I'd guess the majority who would be concerned about their unvaccinated kids are the ones still concerned that COVID still exists that don't feel comfortable going to places with low infection rates and continue to take precautions even though they are fully vaccinated.
Actions I take for myself alone as vaccinated and actions I take for my unvaccinated 11 year old are definitely different. Much like I make them wear a helmet while riding a bike to mitigate against head injury, even if they rarely fall off. We take actions to mitigate their exposure to COVID. Which translates to both activities we do and where we do them. So, while we're completely fine taking them to a stadium sports event in an area with low transmission and high vaccination, no mask and full attendance. The same would not be true in an area of high transmission and low vaccination. Without other mitigation efforts, they're completely dependent on the herd for protection, no sense taking them someplace the herd is falling short.

Vacation planning in three pictures.
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We're going to spend our vacation money in the darkest blue areas, avoiding the red and orange transmission areas. Hoping the yellow areas will trend blue before we get there, otherwise we'll have to adjust our own actions while in them.

While I expect the fully vaccinated map to look like the one dose map in a few weeks, not holding out hope the one dose map is going to change much. Which has the effect that the community spread map isn't likely to change much either.

The chamber of commerce should be running ads non stop "Vaccinate and increase your business".
 

ABQ

Well-Known Member
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/nearly-all-covid-deaths-in-us-are-now-among-unvaccinated

Nearly every death in the US due to Covid is happening to the unvaccinated, given enough time, assuming Covid continues to circulate, it will kill enough of them. It may take years, but give it time.
OK, I misunderstood your prior statement. It appeared that you were implying bodies would be piling up in the streets where every unvaccinated person out there would be killed by the Delta variant. 100% of cases coming from unvaccinated does not mean 100% of them will die.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
What percentage of people do you really think are looking at State by State infection rates and deciding not to go places due to them? I'd say that at least 98% of those concerned enough to follow the data on that level are fully vaccinated making their risk extremely low no matter where they go. The unvaccinated (except due to medical reasons) don't really care about COVID so they won't alter plans due to infection rates.

There may be a percentage of people who don't want to bring unvaccinated kids to risky places so maybe there would be a small effect to a place like WDW. I'd guess the majority who would be concerned about their unvaccinated kids are the ones still concerned that COVID still exists that don't feel comfortable going to places with low infection rates and continue to take precautions even though they are fully vaccinated.
I agree with this for the most part. I don’t think people are going state by state and looking at numbers when deciding on a vacation. I do however think it’s possible that if there are doom and gloom clickbait headlines about a 3rd wave starting in a certain state that will impact future bookings. For example, if FL had a spike in cases right now and CNN ran daily stories on the huge spike that may influence tourists from the NE where cases have flatlined. It’s not so much the number of cases per 100K but the perception that a large outbreak is occurring. If things got really bad there’s also a chance that some states reimpose their travel restrictions and that could have a negative impact on tourism as well and especially with kids once school goes back.

The good news is those types of widespread and long lasting outbreaks are getting less and less likely with every shot administered.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Actions I take for myself alone as vaccinated and actions I take for my unvaccinated 11 year old are definitely different. Much like I make them wear a helmet while riding a bike to mitigate against head injury, even if they rarely fall off. We take actions to mitigate their exposure to COVID. Which translates to both activities we do and where we do them. So, while we're completely fine taking them to a stadium sports event in an area with low transmission and high vaccination, no mask and full attendance. The same would not be true in an area of high transmission and low vaccination. Without other mitigation efforts, they're completely dependent on the herd for protection, no sense taking them someplace the herd is falling short.

Vacation planning in three pictures.
View attachment 566214

View attachment 566215

View attachment 566216


We're going to spend our vacation money in the darkest blue areas, avoiding the red and orange transmission areas. Hoping the yellow areas will trend blue before we get there, otherwise we'll have to adjust our own actions while in them.

While I expect the fully vaccinated map to look like the one dose map in a few weeks, not holding out hope the one dose map is going to change much. Which has the effect that the community spread map isn't likely to change much either.

The chamber of commerce should be running ads non stop "Vaccinate and increase your business".
In summary you won't be visiting WDW anytime soon. Orange County is orange and has a not that spectacular vaccination rate. At least when I was there last week almost nobody was wearing a mask, vaccinated or not (can only assume the latter).

I'm not sure what the thresholds for the CDC community transmission color code actually is. A few weeks ago CA as a State was considered low and then it changed to moderate when the daily case rate dropped a little bit.
 

havoc315

Well-Known Member
The only State that is really comparable to Israel in size, population and population density is maybe New Jersey. All others are very different from Israel in at least one of those variables. I agree that it would be good to have higher vaccination rates but I'd prefer incentives (something like get a stimulus check if you get vaccinated) to punishments like vaccine passports to accomplish the higher rates.
New Jersey is the most comparable, by far. Similar geographic size and population size. But there are other regions that are similar. Much of the Northeast has population density similar to Israel.

At this point, if you introduced a passport when things are already open, it would feel like a "stick." Had it been introduced when things were still closed, then it would have been a "carrot."

Incentives to get a vaccine are great, but free donuts and beer are only motivating so many people. And it would be pretty costly to send every vaccinated person $1,000. Though maybe the last round of stimulus checks should have been tied to getting vaccinated, that would have been interesting. (of course, timing... vaccines were not yet widely available at the time).
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
New Jersey is the most comparable, by far. Similar geographic size and population size. But there are other regions that are similar. Much of the Northeast has population density similar to Israel.

At this point, if you introduced a passport when things are already open, it would feel like a "stick." Had it been introduced when things were still closed, then it would have been a "carrot."

Incentives to get a vaccine are great, but free donuts and beer are only motivating so many people. And it would be pretty costly to send every vaccinated person $1,000. Though maybe the last round of stimulus checks should have been tied to getting vaccinated, that would have been interesting. (of course, timing... vaccines were not yet widely available at the time).
Then have another round of stimulus checks. Not the amount of the last few, let’s say 200 bucks a person. Can easily be done.. it will cost of course but should make up for it in the amount of people that will want the 100 bucks. Only get it if you are vaccinated. Watch the numbers climb.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
Are paying incentives the way society wants to go? How much do people get paid to do other healthy choices?
Maybe from health insurance companies. Think about it, would you rather send a check for a $150 to your insured patients who vaccinate for COVID, or pay the 100k+ potential hospital bills for being unvaccinated and in the ICU for two weeks?
 

DisneyDebRob

Well-Known Member
Are paying incentives the way society wants to go? How much do people get paid to do other healthy choices?
I agree. Problem is we need the numbers up. I’m not in favor of incentives ever.. that’s why I said if people want to go that way make it worthwhile, where you get many people in and money does that. Beers and donuts don’t work.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
In summary you won't be visiting WDW anytime soon. Orange County is orange and has a not that spectacular vaccination rate. At least when I was there last week almost nobody was wearing a mask, vaccinated or not (can only assume the latter).

I'm not sure what the thresholds for the CDC community transmission color code actually is. A few weeks ago CA as a State was considered low and then it changed to moderate when the daily case rate dropped a little bit.
That's correct. Not because of the picture today, although it backs up my decision for now, which could still be wrong by vacation time. But, because I wasn't confident the picture would improve before our vacation back when I had to make the decision to gamble that it would or plan an alternative while alternatives were still available. Plus the cost vs value implications of what the picture will look like. I recognize for others this math may be very different. Either with sunk costs that will be lost, or with vaccination status of travelers. If I didn't have kids under 12, or I was going to lose a ton of DVC points, I would look at this differently too. For many here, this math is different, and that's fine. We didn't cancel, just rescheduled for June 2022. By then, we'll all be vaccinated and those maps will not matter. It'll just be the value to dollar question. I assume it'll be back in line by then too.

The state of Florida, and Orange County could still make my decision look incorrect. Arms out, vaccination rates up, take some actions to drive down community spread while increasing vaccinated percentages, turn that entire picture around. There's no reason that FL couldn't look like the North East in those pictures. It's a choice by the herd in FL.

There was a news report about vaccination rates in our county for 12-15 year old after the first week. Over 25% of them got first doses that first week. I remember, but cannot find now, another story about over 50% of them getting first doses before there was even enough time for any to get second doses. I haven't been able to find stats for that number, so hadn't posted about it. The 0-18 stat doesn't help here. Anecdotally, my older kid's friends are all fully vaccinated now. There were some hold outs the first week, but once they heard all the cool things the vaccinated group was planning once they were complete, all of them got the shot too, even those whose parents hadn't. FOMO has a strong pull. We're at 60% of population fully vaccinated, so the 12-15 age may just reflect the overall rate. What it does show though, is that population vaccination rate is a choice.

With someone who cannot be vaccinated for whatever reason, choosing to go places where there's a high vaccination rate seems like a no brainer. Today, that's kids 12 and under, and people with medical issues. Eventually, it'll probably be kids under 5, and hopefully lower. Or, we'll drive transmission down enough everywhere that under 5 doesn't matter anymore, which would be nice. Until then, if a business targets kids 12 and under, getting the vaccination rate as high as possible is just good business planning.

Don't international tourists look at this when they pick which countries to visit? It's hardly a new concept.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
Maybe from health insurance companies. Think about it, would you rather send a check for a $150 to your insured patients who vaccinate for COVID, or pay the 100k+ potential hospital bills for being unvaccinated and in the ICU for two weeks?
Once the vaccines receive full approval, expect insurance companies to start offering discounts for vaccination.
 

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
If you are not allowed to do something (lets say go to a sporting event) without getting vaccinated, how is that not a punishment for not being vaccinated?

If a kid isn't allowed to get a Dole Whip because they hit their sibling on line for Mine Train, are they not being punished?
It wouldn't be a punishment...it's the opposite. The activities are the reward for being vaccinated.

It's more like the kid couldn't go to the movies because they didn't empty the dishwasher like they were supposed to.
Or a kid who couldn't go to a dance because they failed a class and a passing grade was required for attendance.
 

Jwink

Well-Known Member
People are sick and tired of masks. Compare California, New York and Florida. If masks, lockdowns, distancing worked then why are the rates of deaths/infections approx the same in both states? Florida has a much larger elderly population so again, if these measures actually made a difference then we in Florida would have the biggest spike in the country. If people want to mask then they should be free to do so. As for the rest of us the value of a damp sweaty mask removed and touched multiple times per wearing is null.
Florida has the most new cases per day right now (about 1700 a day when you average it) and California has like 700 cases a day) 🤷🏻‍♀️
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
What I find fascinating is there was a poll that (going off memory) something like 80% of 18-30 year olds thought that vaccination should be mandatory for 18-30 year olds yet less than half of that number have gotten vaccinated. I may be slightly off on the exact age range and percentage but it was close to that.
This reminded me of a Twitter discussion I saw earlier, regarding mitigations and mandates among health professionals who were talking to people they encountered. There was a group of people that interpreted the lack of a mandate as meaning that it was safe to do things. If something was really, really critical and important it would be mandated. Like laws for driving and drinking, food safety, building codes. The fact that it wasn't, didn't mean "We're leaving it up to you to decide this very important thing," but that this thing isn't "really that important or necessary."

I wonder if that's a bit of what is going on here. The fact that vaccines are optional is adding to the belief, especially within this particular age group given how COVID concerns are already downplayed, that it's safe to be unvaccinated.
 
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